SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC03 November 2017 - Results, Winners announced

Thematic Songwriting Competition - recurrence: monthly
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Mister Fox
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC03 November 2017 - Results, Winners announced

Post by Mister Fox » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:43 am

So my commentary on the production, mix, theme "fitting" didn't work out for you, and now you're disappointied that you made 4th in my vote - which doesn't even count this round. Do you only question my viewpoint, or all others as well? Because music is(!) subjective. Everyone judges it differently, see's possible flaws differently as well.


Honestly, you've made it twice into the Top 3 out of three consecutive challenges so far. Why are you even annoyed?
Do we really have to continue this "tea bagging" shtick?

FixInTheMix
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC03 November 2017 - Results, Winners announced

Post by FixInTheMix » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:09 am

I think establishing a set of rules or guidelines for the critique of the tracks is a good idea, I know music is subjective but it would make for a more consistent approach and less personal taste/randomness influencing the final decision. It´s hard to separate music taste from objective analisis but It´s the most fair thing to do.

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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC03 November 2017 - Results, Winners announced

Post by Mister Fox » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:32 am

But this particular thing worked fine so far! I really don't get the fuzz this time around.

At this point, I might as well drop all rules and guidelines to make "the game more interesting"... :scared:
Sheesh!

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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC03 November 2017 - Results, Winners announced

Post by Tbase2000 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:39 am

Your testing rules that you want...but this contest is a whole new animal. Glad you got my tea reference this month. Your trying to figure this out as much as we are...but if you just say pick which one you like as the rule....how is that ever going to work out. If I don't like your style I'm never going to vote for you. But if your chops are solid, it's well recorded, has an interesting story and vocal delivery...then I will complement you on your keyboard sick solo and give you a professional review. You don't think I knew who was my competition this month? Really? I voted for him because he did a great job. No offense KC but your vote mattered the most this month and you didn't write anything even close to the other reviews. That cannot be the final decision maker for the next challenge in my opinion. I liked A better than B over C. Done. What is that? Nobody cares about the results...it's about you figuring out what the rules need to be.

And...heaven forbid I ever get my group to enter this competition again with 3 more votes based on who they "like" again. What's fair? Everybody will be professional if there is a structure to the evaluation. Work it out.

Fox directly: I love the feedback. I'm glad you see some promise in my work and realize I missed your mark on the "theme". I'll work harder to get it right the next time. We need that constructive feedback. Feed on it. But you ultimately were 2 marks below the conscientious of the group. I took second.

TeaBags4Two

FixInTheMix
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC03 November 2017 - Results, Winners announced

Post by FixInTheMix » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:30 am

Mister Fox wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:32 am
But this particular thing worked fine so far! I really don't get the fuzz this time around.
Mostly yes! you are right, but in the specific case of kc23 vote there was no clear insight in which things worked and which didn´t by his criteria, it seems as he voted the tracks he enjoyed the most and didn´t analize much beyond first impressions, the first thing he wrote for my feedback was "I think this may be entirely a taste thing... but never liked those rythmic keyboards that usually "drive" the whole song".Essentialy saying he doesn´t like that composing resource which is a staple of the genre I intended (Synthwave) so it gets a lower vote :headscratch: seems a bit random to me.
I don´t mean to be rude, and I´m not complaining but in this particular case the critique doesn´t feel objective and I think this could become a problem in future challenges specially those who have multiple possible genres in them.

Just a thought, maybe to be considered for the future.

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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC03 November 2017 - Results, Winners announced

Post by Nige » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:40 am

I'd be inclined to agree with @fixinthemix. I think having a set of basic judging criteria that help eliminate some of the subjectiveness out of a participants vote, and give the judging process a definite direction. e.g.

*arrangement: (does the song flow between parts well, and engage this listener throughout)
*brief: (Did the composition hit the mark in regards to the creative brief/designated genre)
*originality: (does the piece feel artistically fresh and creative)
*overall composition: (How did the song feel as a complete entity in regards to melody, arrangement and instrumentation)
*production: (???)

...and anything else the group can think of that would seem like fundamental criteria for helping simplify the judging process somewhat.
Score each section out of five for example to give overall tally, followed by a more personnel comment or critique detailing how you felt about the track.

Idk, just some ideas.

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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC03 November 2017 - Results, Winners announced

Post by Mister Fox » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:29 pm

I will continue this discussion in the Gossip Thread to keep this multi-purpose thread open for possible general feedback to the productions.

Thanks for your understanding.

erictracks
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC03 November 2017 - Results, Winners announced

Post by erictracks » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:47 pm

Mr. Fox -

I'll grab that synthmaster 1+2 bundle while I'm up here.

Mr. Fox, Tbase2000, FixInTheMix, kc23 - I really appreciate the feedback, thanks for taking the time. Tbase in particular you had a good read on what I was trying to do. Shady drums lol.

This month hit a sweet spot, because I'm at home with an 80s aesthetic, and I'd just finished watching Adam Curtis's HyperNormalisation, which has some heavy cyberpunk themes

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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC03 November 2017 - Results, Winners announced

Post by Mister Fox » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:17 pm

Thanks erictracks.

Next up in terms of license selection is FixInTheMix.

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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC03 November 2017 - Voting until 01-12-2017 11:59pm GMT+1/CET

Post by kc23 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:50 pm

Hello there!!

erictracks wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:11 am
8. KC23 Electric Paranoia
My initial reaction is like, how the hell do you get kicks to sound like that?
I used a loop package that Cakewalk ( :cry: ) had released just last month for Sonar Plat. Just checked it, its the Big Fish Audio - Electro Loop Collection. Maybe its available stand alone. I think I used all the loops with kicks in the construction kit, just played with layering them. Then some bus compression, but not really heavy.

Tbase2000 wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:01 am
And there you have it. KC23 has a taste for Bowie and not TeaBags4Two.
Don´t forget Chris Squire and The Who. :cool:

Mister Fox wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:00 am

:arrow: kc23- Electric Paranoia

This is a strange one. IMO, it does fit with SciFi / Cyberpunk. But more like into more modern (think 2000s, think Ghost in the Shell: SAC, Cowboy Bebop, .hack) - heck, it would even fit into a J-RPG. There is definitely a lot of influence from "King Crimson" as well (the progressiveness and the guitars). But the track sadly needs a lot of work. Things just clash too much, you have a strange pumping effect going on as if things are about to break apart (probably because things were compressed too much?! And then pulled down in loudness again?). But for just "blowing off some steam from work", it's an interesting creation.

Maybe you should revisit that track and create a more clean mix.
Well, definetly was envisioning some japanese animation! guess that is where the little MacrossPluss bit came from! And surely, needs a lot of work. As i said, one of these days I´ll post my do-overs, already started with them! About the compression... I think maybe it has to do with the kick layering... just checked the project and there wasn´t much compression. To be honest, I actually kind of like that there´s not much dinamics... it just pushes through no matter what--- kind of like that x-men Juggernaut hehe! But yeah, it´may be overdone.


Tbase2000 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:42 am
And 4th Fox? Come on man. Go buy some headphones player. Please....
Man... you can really have your good and awesome moments. And then, this. :bang:

Tbase2000 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:35 am
[...] You giving me 4th... That's the whole point...what are we judging on? You don't like it...but the others did. Personal taste shouldn't be in the equation because I'd give you all a D. Get some heavy metal in your diets. Judging needs to be defined for the future. I like a 3 criteria idea.
1) Production
2) Musicianship
3) Mix
4) Theme
So.. the point is that... Mr. Fox didn´t like your entry? or that the others did? or that you don´t take into account your personal taste (otherwise we would have all got "D"s)? or that you eat heavy metal for breakfast?

aah...maybe it´s about the criteria you mention... but... neither of those criteria correspond (fully and in my opinion) with a songwriting task. Maybe if it was a Production Competition (hint hint?)...

Tbase2000 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:39 am
No offense KC but your vote mattered the most this month and you didn't write anything even close to the other reviews.
OK, I´ll concede to that. Sadly the last couple of months of the semester are always hectic. Turns out "full time faculty" actually means fully all of your time...! Even so, I try to make a little time for this site, however little it can be. My voting post was made at 1:43am on a workday, with one eye opened and the other one already closed.

But, then again, you sort of imply that whoever gets to vote last is doing it with an intention to modify the results, and that is why my "vote mattered the most this month". And that´s too much assumption on your part.

Tbase2000 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:39 am
Fox directly: I love the feedback. I'm glad you see some promise in my work and realize I missed your mark on the "theme". I'll work harder to get it right the next time. We need that constructive feedback. Feed on it.
See? you can be awesome.


And then...:
Tbase2000 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:39 am
But you ultimately were 2 marks below the conscientious of the group. I took second.
:bang:

FixInTheMix wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:30 am

Mostly yes! you are right, but in the specific case of kc23 vote there was no clear insight in which things worked and which didn´t by his criteria, it seems as he voted the tracks he enjoyed the most and didn´t analize much beyond first impressions, the first thing he wrote for my feedback was "I think this may be entirely a taste thing... but never liked those rythmic keyboards that usually "drive" the whole song".Essentialy saying he doesn´t like that composing resource which is a staple of the genre I intended (Synthwave) so it gets a lower vote :headscratch: seems a bit random to me.
I don´t mean to be rude, and I´m not complaining but in this particular case the critique doesn´t feel objective and I think this could become a problem in future challenges specially those who have multiple possible genres in them.

Just a thought, maybe to be considered for the future.
Well, I thought maybe I was being clear about those keybs not working for me (hence the "may be entirely a taste thing" thing), and that in trying to analize why, I came to the conclusion that it was not a musicianship issue on your part. And actually, you just made it clear for me, that its the genre that didn´t click with me. I said it made it (for me) too soft... which is not what the term "cyberpunk" sparks with me... so, I actually thought it was a little far from the brief (although I just saw the genre included in the first post...). Also, its not that I didn´t like it all the way... just that it was the one that "made it" the least for me (out of just three!) :wink:

But I agree, and I said it before. There should be some evaluation criteria.
Nige wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:40 am
I'd be inclined to agree with @fixinthemix. I think having a set of basic judging criteria that help eliminate some of the subjectiveness out of a participants vote, and give the judging process a definite direction. e.g.

Mister Fox wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:29 pm
I will continue this discussion in the Gossip Thread to keep this multi-purpose thread open for possible general feedback to the productions.

Thanks for your understanding.

See you there!!

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