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SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC051 November 2021 - Winners announced

Thematic Songwriting Competition - recurrence: monthly
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Mister Fox
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC051 November 2021 - Submissions until 24-11-2021 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#11

Post by Mister Fox »

I sadly can't give much more feedback this month (because busy), so I'm hoping that others will also chime in with some words.


@EsteveCorbera

Your second version definitely has better defined drums, but it sadly still suffers from the guitar sample use, the now way too busy bass, and dissonances from the Organ compared to what the guitars and the bass are playing. This feels messy, disjointed and running out of rhythm even. THe best part, where things actually kind of work out, is between the 2:10min mark and the 2:30mark, then the dissonances start to happen again, and things fall apart.

I really don't know what to tell you here other than experiment more. Maybe the guitar samples/loops are not what you should be using. Maybe there are hidden dynamic layers for these Reason modules that I don't know about. There is definitely room for more. But you stepped out of your comfort zone and tried something new. So good work on that end.




@alavault

This is quite the strong start in terms of production. It has a very ambient feeling to it. Maybe a bit "too ambient heavy". In fact, it also feels a bit "mid heavy" and slightly over-compressed (unless the "density" is what you were after - and this is all subjective of course). I don't have access to my studio setup right now, but running it quickly through AIMP with the EQ engaged - maybe take a look at the following frequency ranges: 125Hz (wide bell, about 3dB boost), 500-600Hz ("dip out" a bit with about 2dB maybe?), 2,8Khz to 4kHz (so technically the 3,3kHz range, boost like 2dB), 8kHz (give this a healthy dose of "fairy dust" with at least +4dB, back it up with a wide shelf at 12kHz and +2dB). Then A/B, things should open up a lot.

The rest is then down to your effect usage. You could even try a stereo enchancer to make the "field" just a bit wider (guitars especially). I personally always use a touch of bx_control (M/S trickery) on guitar groups and turn the stereo field from 100% to at least 125%. Basically, you try to create a "wall of sound", where the mangled lead guitar and the piano sits or even moves in between. Personally I'd also give the toms a bit more low end, but it looks like you've mixed SD3 with the DR660 in this case.

Else, I really like the production so far... I hope we hear like 10 more interesting things like this. Also... BOD > Ignite Anvil (no IR?)... that is some gnarly well sitting bass. And I'd love to know the amp sims you've used for the rhythm guitars. (just out of curiosity)
alavault
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC051 November 2021 - Submissions until 24-11-2021 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#12

Post by alavault »

Mister Fox wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:26 CET
This is quite the strong start in terms of production. It has a very ambient feeling to it. Maybe a bit "too ambient heavy". In fact, it also feels a bit "mid heavy" and slightly over-compressed (unless the "density" is what you were after - and this is all subjective of course). I don't have access to my studio setup right now, but running it quickly through AIMP with the EQ engaged - maybe take a look at the following frequency ranges: 125Hz (wide bell, about 3dB boost), 500-600Hz ("dip out" a bit with about 2dB maybe?), 2,8Khz to 4kHz (so technically the 3,3kHz range, boost like 2dB), 8kHz (give this a healthy dose of "fairy dust" with at least +4dB, back it up with a wide shelf at 12kHz and +2dB). Then A/B, things should open up a lot.

The rest is then down to your effect usage. You could even try a stereo enchancer to make the "field" just a bit wider (guitars especially). I personally always use a touch of bx_control (M/S trickery) on guitar groups and turn the stereo field from 100% to at least 125%. Basically, you try to create a "wall of sound", where the mangled lead guitar and the piano sits or even moves in between. Personally I'd also give the toms a bit more low end, but it looks like you've mixed SD3 with the DR660 in this case.

Else, I really like the production so far... I hope we hear like 10 more interesting things like this. Also... BOD > Ignite Anvil (no IR?)... that is some gnarly well sitting bass. And I'd love to know the amp sims you've used for the rhythm guitars. (just out of curiosity)
Unfortunately, the session is on a computer which is being repaired right now. So I won't be able to tweak the little details inside but I will try your master EQ suggestions.

Edit : these are more or less the bumps and valleys of the headphone I use (DT770). Funny.

I love ambient heavy rock/metal but it also means it can get messy quickly. The "density" is something I love even if it's true I could back up a bit on it ^^' (compression is a drug after all).

There is already a stereo enhancer on the master bus (airwindows Wider) but I admit I generally don't widen hard panned guitars. Would definitely try itsomeday though.

I agree the toms would benefit from some more low end.

Being a cheap ass (No local music shop and I don't want to pay shipping fees from Thomann), I don't change strings regularly. To counteract this, BOD is just full drive, full low, full high (and back up a bit with dry/wet control) and it's not Anvil, it's SHB-1 my bad. And no IR. I would lowpass on the bass bus anyway. I don't think IR are that great on bass amp sims especially when the amp sim is not overly pushed.

I don't remember if I used this trick on this song, but making a duplicate track of the bass DI through the amp as the rhythm guitars can make a very interesting and easy to mix distortion track, especially when coupled with volume automation.

The rhythm guitars are Amplex with a Mesa amp (Dark II) with Mesa IR (I don't remember from where), boosted with a TS808 emulation (the usual). Destroyed lead are Amplex with a Soldano (ZLO) full gain. Cleans are Emissary and ENGL IR (from... well I don't remember). This video can give some great insights for other contestants : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCIcLBINioM
erictracks
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC051 November 2021 - Submissions until 24-11-2021 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#13

Post by erictracks »

I’m one of those guitar guys so I really wanted to enter something this month.

I kept it simple. You get one key and one chord change that’s it.

It's not metal it's southern rock motorik?


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EsteveCorbera
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC051 November 2021 - Submissions until 24-11-2021 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#14

Post by EsteveCorbera »

Hello,
I give you a first feedback

@alavault
Powerful guitars grind a lot. They are very successful.
What I don’t see so clearly is the reverberation / distance you have put in many moments. I know it may be an aesthetic or personal taste consideration, but I find the reverberation too strong. As Mister Fox comments, there may be a bit of an ambient chunk and this is due to this reverberation.
The percussion also from the back to the front, according to the pieces. It does not give realism. I understand that guitars can have a static justification, but percussion doesn’t. It's more like a soundtrack where you play with space than a rock song.


@erictracks
The first part is like very dark, low high range. It’s all like very off. Too full?
The accompaniments of the first part seem to fill too much.
Instead the second part, I find it better, more natural.
But in the end it gets tight again, you put too many guitars back at once.
Another flaw that in the final mix looks like two different themes put together, one more closed and one more open. For me you have the best part between the minute 1:47 to 3:29.

(translated with google)
EsteveCorbera
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC051 November 2021 - Submissions until 24-11-2021 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#15

Post by EsteveCorbera »

Hello,
I re-updated my song
I have made changes following your suggestions. I’ve added an amp to the guitar that plays the chords. I changed the sound of the guitar to look like an Epiano. I switched to the panorama between the B3 and this guitar. I added saturation to B3. I chained 3 compressors (Ozone, Reason and AO Loaded) to try to unify the master. I have also tried to un-busy the bass.
What I haven’t changed is the instrument of the guitars, which are still UJAM (the Reason A List Electric Guitarist Power Chords was also made by UJAM), because I don’t have much more guitars and I bought these, so I have to get performance.

(translated with google)
GMoneh
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC051 November 2021 - Submissions until 24-11-2021 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#16

Post by GMoneh »

Ok, it seems I'm on time to enter this month. Seemed like a good idea to get some use of my guitar collection :wink:

So my entry is:

Back In Time


Production details:

Recorded, mix and mastered in Presonus Studio One 5

Instruments:
4 guitars were used in this production: Epiphone Les Paul, PRS SingleCut S2, Schecter C-1 FR SLS Elite (lead) and Taylor 214ce acoustic. All routed through several in-box amp simulations (Guitar Rig, BiasFX and Overloud TH-U).
Also a Ibanez SR-650 bass, also routed through amp simulation
Drums: NI Abbey Road Modern, played live on an Alesis Command electronic drum set.
Synths: AAS Ultra Analog 3 and Arturia Analog Lab V
Organ: Arturia B-2
Vocals: Myself

Effects:
Multiple instances of FabFilter Pro-Q 3
Waves JJP Vocals on the vocals
HOFA IQ Reverb
FabFilter Timeless Delay
Assorted NI compressors

As a note for anyone interested, I used a mixing technique I had recently read about for the tracking of the guitars. Two electric rhythm tracks (different guitars and amps for each) were recorded and then hard panned to left and right. The lead guitar sits in the middle and the acoustic rhythm is panned a bit less than half to the left, leaving room on the right for the organ that enters midway through the song. Anyway, thought it'd be interesting for some to share that bit of technical detail.
alavault
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC051 November 2021 - Submissions until 24-11-2021 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#17

Post by alavault »

@erictracks
You nailed the southern rock feel !
This song well written song with interesting themes and nice contrasts while making a coherent "story". It really sounds like a band playing
The drums sound distant, not because of reverb, but simply because of their volume. While it gives a interesting "live" sensation, this limits how much drive the song can get IMO (especially for the section B (if we consider the song is ABA')
I don't hear much of the bass : a bit more, maybe ?

@GMoneh
Nice song and lyrics overall, interesting the whole time.
The lead guitar sounds thin and honky (and pitchy too ?). There is ground noise as well (noise gate or clean up the DIs)
The drums could be rhythmically tighter : it can make the song feel wonky at times (especially verse 2 and synth solo). The choice of accentuating with the toms is great though and outlines the melody well.
Nothing much to say about the bass and the rhythm guitars : it's clean. Could have more crunch (having some crunch on clean guitars can make them sound more present yet clean when put in a mix.
Vocals are ok. You sound like you are strained and pinched somehow (it feels like you are "not freeing your voice", whatever it means).
alavault
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC051 November 2021 - Submissions until 24-11-2021 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#18

Post by alavault »

Update :: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z9YQ51 ... sp=sharing
***
This session really made the backup machine burn.... Anyway, I implemented Mr. Fox suggestions (master EQ, less comp and wider GTRs, less ambiance)
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Mister Fox
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC051 November 2021 - Submissions until 24-11-2021 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#19

Post by Mister Fox »

Let me please chime in with some more quick feedback:


@EsteveCorbera
I think UJAM is not doing you good, but you're trying what you can. Now the Organ is super loud, the rhyhthm "chugs" (power chords) are vanishing, and the beat still feels off compared to your guitar work. Did you check if things are really aligned? And/or Quantized even?

Mix wise, very mid frequency heavy, especially on small speakers. Work with volume balance, bring out the bass just a bit more, turn down the B3 Organ. You can do this. :tu:



@erictracks
I really hoped to see you join this month. Glad to see you. I like your overall concept, production wise there is really not much to complain here. But the main thing to look at,is indeed the mix of the drum kit. I would pull up the kick a bit more, have it a bit more "clicky" maybe, old 1990s trick - also give it the same reverb like the snare to place it a bit more. Your guitars are "warm", but the drums feel a bit dull. Give the kit a bit more "fairy dust" in the high frequencies, and it should balance out the whole production.



@alavault
I've listened to the second version, great to read that you could manage to get back to it. Definitely more enjoyable now. It still sounds quiet "Videogame Soundtrack/Ambient" like, and the bass is getting a bit lost (small speakers) this is your overall concept. It feels a bit more quiet compared to before though: Then again, I rather pull up the volume knob (and still have the transients) than turn it down and loose out on all the punch).



@GMoneh
Interesting Jazz/Funk production. Thank you for the technical addition. I understand what you tried here... 3 different guitarists, two for rhythm, one for lead. Plus bass and acoustic overdub. Interesting, but can result in a shift of stereo field if you go too crazy on the amp settings.

Mix wise, I have to agree with what others have brought up as well. Although I'd say you overdid it with the EQ (especially on small speakers). Your production is super bright, it feels like there is no lowend at all. As in... I don't even hear a kick drum, the bass is drowning out a bit, the vocals are way too aggressive (bright - maybe you cut away too much low-end and turned up the high frequencies way too much) and the reverb is also not really fitting. I would say, retune your reverb again (vocals and drums), pull back on the high frequencies for your vocals, maybe give the guitars a slight bit more "crunch" and raise both the kick and bass to balance out the currently treble heavy production. Timing is another thing, but this would mean changing way more than just EQ, volume and reverb.





So far we have 4 entries, and some healthy interaction. There are still a bit more than 3 days left. Those that still sit on the fence and want feedback/a chance to overhaul their mix, should consider joining within the next 48 hours.

Can we exceed 10 entries? :phones:
becsei_gyorgy
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC051 November 2021 - Submissions until 24-11-2021 23:59 UTC+1/CET

#20

Post by becsei_gyorgy »

Hi all,

I can’t play guitar at all, so this month is a particularly good opportunity to learn about guitar music.
I tried to give to my song a little harder, 'metalish' feeling but in a hybrid way, with synthesizers, which is more familiar to me.
The vocal line is from the Voices of rage (Souindiron). The Death metal style also makes the lyrics difficult to understand. The posted youtube video is subtitled if anyone wants to know what the singer is roaring about. It’s not really important to me the lyrics, I just wanted a vocal that matched the style of the song, it doesn’t really matter what it sing :). (and before it can be misunderstood, the video has no intention of forming any political opinion - is only to illustrate the music).

(There was a question last month about where the videos are from: from free sites (e.g. pexels.com, pixabay) where you can download small clips and put together quite good videos from these mostly 5-20 second clips. I’ve seen those free music clips appear in the commercial and product trailer videos of the biggest music companies :smile:. )

I won't have time to update my submission in the next week, so it's final.

phpBB [media]




VST:
Addictive Drums 2
Repro-1
3x Musiclab RealEight
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Kontakt
Joshua Essentials
Chocolate Audio Uproar
Voices of Rage

FX:
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