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Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

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White Punk OD
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#261

Post by White Punk OD »

I think we focus on the "mistake" enough with the fact sheet that lists the drop-outs and the cause.
Anything further like rescue ticket should focus only on the achievement and the future.
Technical requirements are still to enforce in the final winners podium decision.

RoadieShow
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#262

Post by RoadieShow »

Mister Fox wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 03:21 CEST
Since this is a test-run... I could scale things back a bit and offer "wrong file formats" as "minor offense" as well (leaving only: no download possible, no username associated, re-submissions during the deadline, submissions after the deadline). I'd need to talk to the Song Provider about this - which is no problem.

:arrow: The thing is though... where do we draw distinct lines so that it'll be fair for everyone?


Any further thoughts, @White Punk OD / @RoadieShow?
Perhaps the challenge host has the ability to use a Wild Card (or suggest it to the client) for posting issues that were clearly unintentional, to be used at the host's discretion and only after a formal request has been issued. This would allow for incorrect file formats to still be on the disqualification list yet provide a small window of opportunity for someone that may have had an issue that is worth consideration. Perhaps this Wild Card is to be used only when a contestant has demonstrated that they know the rules and have followed them in previous competitions, like our current situation. I don't want to see people expecting to be issued a card because they forgot to unmute a bus before mixdown, or they missed a key phrase in the contest notes and neglected to use an alternate track as requested, or they exported their file without checking the export parameters. We all need to learn to catch our mistakes as we make them and review our own material before sending it out. That being said, there will surely be rare situations that you can imagine could be forgiven. You can even give it a different name, to separate it from the Wild Card program. "Executive Decision" or similar.

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Mister Fox
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#263

Post by Mister Fox »

So both of you are in favor of removing "wrong file format" form the exclusion clause.

Even though the lines are thin, you bought up valid arguments. Let me think about this, get back with the song provider, and then make an "executive decision" before Mix Round 2 starts.


Thank you.

TheLordRudman
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC077 June 2021 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#264

Post by TheLordRudman »

Hi good afternoon,

I just saw that I'm disqualified because I'm new here and you can't see my forum username or download my file. I know that is your page and your rules. But, I think they are very rude rules and you disqualified people without hear their mix or only because missing something. Like I said before is your page and rules. And, I think that you need to change a little bit those. At least in the Mix round 1 send a email or in the same pdf let them know to your participants what their are missing and fix it so you can at least hear the mix and not disqualified just because something is missing without your participants knows.

Thanks in advance for the opportunity on mix, and have a great day.

Ronson79
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Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 17:59 CEST

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC077 June 2021 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#265

Post by Ronson79 »

I´ve seen that I´m disqualified. It was my first time participating in the challenge. Life goes on but I will have to say that it shouldn´t be a problem to write the specs of -16 Lufs und -1 dBTP in the general information post about the song as you mentioned the other stuff like samplerate and bitrate as well. How could I know that I have to look further into a rule guideline and then into another document to find this important information.
But it is what it is.... maybe next time.

White Punk OD
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC077 June 2021 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#266

Post by White Punk OD »

TheLordRudman wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 22:43 CEST
Thanks in advance for the opportunity on mix, and have a great day.
don't be sad, I think your mix is good and very worthy to listen.
we have a "wildcard" feature here that allows the song provider to save a disqualified contestant under certain conditions, and if s/he loves the particular mix. I can't tell if it can apply to you. perhaps you are lucky.

in business, specs are specs, have to be studied thoroughly, and if not fulfilled, chances are poor to get the deal.
in a contest, you don't lose money, you just make some experience, and winning a plugin is more like a lottery, when there are 50-100 applicants.

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Mister Fox
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#267

Post by Mister Fox »

I've moved the above three posts (#264 to #266) from MC077 to General Gossip, as announced that discussions about the Rule Books will not be handled in each game thread anymore.

I will comment in a follow-up post. Apologies for the waiting time.

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Mister Fox
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#268

Post by Mister Fox »

Let me quickly please respond to the comments from MC077 regarding disqualifications, and criticism on the rules


TheLordRudman wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 22:43 CEST
I just saw that I'm disqualified because I'm new here and you can't see my forum username or download my file. I know that is your page and your rules. But, I think they are very rude rules and you disqualified people without hear their mix or only because missing something.
As per the well established Rules and Guidelines, and as pointed out in the PDFs, your entry was tagged as "technically disqualified" because of two main issues:
  • no documentation to your mix (you just posted your file, wrote " I hope the file is in compliance with the rules. Good LUCK to all of us.", then moved on)
  • not the same username as on the forum (LuisRudman on the WAV file, TheLordRudman on the forum, technically your entry could still be associated, but the file naming template is: MC077__Keystone_Angel__Afterglow__ForumUsername.wav ).
The bigger mishap was the lack of documentation, which is mandatory for every participant.



TheLordRudman wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 22:43 CEST
Like I said before is your page and rules. And, I think that you need to change a little bit those. At least in the Mix round 1 send a email or in the same pdf let them know to your participants what their are missing and fix it so you can at least hear the mix and not disqualified just because something is missing without your participants knows.
The PDF clearly states what went wrong (in the shortest form possible, given the layout). There is nothing that needs to be changed. We have established rules, and by joining the game you agreed to adhere to them. By now arguing that "they are very rude rules", while being so rude in breaking the (agreed on) rules yourself and trying to get this quashed, this argument has turned invalid.


You also don't seem understand the concept of the Mix(ing) Challenge. We are simulating a "client to business" scenario, where even slight mishaps can result in severe repercussions. This is a learning experience through the backdoor of "running a game". I am merely acting as a foreman, upholding and enforcing rules (important for the learning factor!), and tagging files that went out of specs. I don't need to listen to the material in minute detail, neither are the entries "blocked" for the Song Provider.

The Song Provider will still listen to your entry. The Song Provider might or might not offer you a second change through the help of a "Wild Card" (see here for an explanation of this mechanic). I can (in most cases) not overrule that.

However, would your entry was wrongly tagged (forum username) - one out of two participants - and in fairness to all other participants where each entry could be properly associated, I can not make an exception to what has been established in April 2021 with the "Wild Card mechanic".

Please notice: Up until April 2021, you were disqualified with no chance to redeem yourself. I am sorry for the inconvenience, but please take this as a learning experience and pay more attention to detail for the next game.


(thank you @White Punk OD for also bringing this up and explaining the situation)



Ronson79 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 23:26 CEST
I´ve seen that I´m disqualified. It was my first time participating in the challenge. Life goes on but I will have to say that it shouldn´t be a problem to write the specs of -16 Lufs und -1 dBTP in the general information post about the song as you mentioned the other stuff like samplerate and bitrate as well. How could I know that I have to look further into a rule guideline and then into another document to find this important information.
But it is what it is.... maybe next time.
Thank you for the feedback. But it really doesn't need to be mentioned at all, since there are several links to the rule set in the two first posts of each thread.

It is difficult enough keeping the introduction threads "on point" and participants reading the premise. Though I agree, there is (sadly still) no "TL;DR" version of the Rule Set. I am but one person running this whole endeavor, and my time is limited. But other than that, everything is explained in minute detail.


In fact:
Rules for participants of the Mix Challenge wrote: (status: 2020-DEC-01)

Upload and Submission Guidelines
  • ...
  • the final mixdown / export must not undershoot -24 LUFS ILk (Integrated), neither exceed -16 LUFS ILk (Integrated), while the maximum digital signal strength must not exceed -1.0 dBTP (True Peak) - NO (Pre)MASTERING. Recommended measurement specifications are ITU-R BS.1770-2+ (ideally ITU-R BS.1770-4) or EBU R-128
  • ...

Your entry has been "tagged disqualified" due to the fact that both the LUFS (ILk) and dBTP values exceeded their maximum allowed values. This is however considered "a minor mishap", so you might have the option to advance through the help of a "Wild Card". Should you be selected for Mix Round 2, please address that overshot by pulling back the volume on the summing bus to not exceed -16,0 LUFS ILk and -1,0 dBTP (can be as simple as a gain plugin after your summing bus processing, or just pulling down the master fader by a couple of dB), and double check with a LUFS measurement tool like Youlean Loudness Meter 2 (e.g. ITU-R BS.1770-4 preset)

If you're not selected, please take this as a learning experience for the next game.



Thank you everyone for understanding. :educate:

Ronson79
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Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 17:59 CEST

Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#269

Post by Ronson79 »

Yeah, no worries. Maybe I will be selected for a wildcard for round 2 (I thought this contest already were in round 2 but I´m not sure)
But nevertheless your argument "trying to keep the description small" is a bit weak as it´s already overwhelming and 2 specs like Lufs and dBTP doesn´t make it worse. Anyway... will try the next contest and I´ve learned the rules now.

best

Ronson79

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Mister Fox
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#270

Post by Mister Fox »

Mix Challenge 077 is still in the evaluation process. The thread title changes once Round 2 starts.


Regarding the "descriptive nature" of threads:
I try to keep the game threads streamlined. The rules will always be in minute detail.

There is just no other way. See FAQ Question/Answer No 3

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