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MIX CHALLENGE - MC080 September 2021 - Mix Round 2 in evaluation

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Mister Fox
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MIX CHALLENGE - MC080 September 2021 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#101

Post by Mister Fox »

It is the 22nd September 2021, 00:10 UTC+2/CEST - the first Mix Round has officially ended

Another very warm welcome to all new participants (from which there are plenty! I really wish there would be as much interaction for acquiring new source material for the Song Pool). As usual, a huge thank you to everyone that is spreading the word about the Mix Challenge. Please help get the Songwriting Competition as popular (less than 3 days left).


STATISTICS: INFORMATION:
Statistic sheets have been updated (on 01-OCT-2021 08:45 UTC+2/CEST)
Statistic sheets have been updated (on 26-SEP-2021 22:50 UTC+2/CEST)
Statistic sheets are not available yet, please wait for the official announcement post -- sheets will arrive by mid 25-SEP-2021 latest
.


:arrow: INFORMATION:

Please take note of the announcement of (officially) implementing both the Wild Card Mechanic and the Statistic Sheet.

You can find that post in the "News and Announcements" section:
Mix Challenge - changes to main game (September 2021)


The TL;DR is basically:
  • Statistics Sheet will continue (official Addendum Thread will arrive within Q4 2021)
  • "Wild Card" mechanic officially implemented (previous Wild Card usage has been reset)
  • games can now officially run up to three mixing rounds


I now open the field for everyone to give each other feedback (highly encouraged). This will be independent to the client feedback however.


Please watch this spot for the statistics sheet, client feedback and Mix Round 2 participant announcement.

Good luck to all participants.





:arrow: The Songwriting Competition 49 (SWC49) is still in full swing.
The deadline is 24th September 2021, 23:59 UTC+2/CEST. The genre is "Free to select". So far we have 5 entries.

Please spread the word!

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Square
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC080 September 2021 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#102

Post by Square »

wow, just a huge thank you for the overwhelming response. This song has a very personal meaning, and im glad that anyone could relate. I decided to only listen to the tracks after all have been submitted so that everyone gets a fair shot and i do not develop favourites or biases etc... i will work my way through them on various sound systems and over as much time as it takes to do it right. I will also try to leave at least a couple of things that stand out to me for each mix, this will vary wildly, but i will try and be as fair as possible.

But again, your time and emotions into this are very appreciated.

Stay safe and speak soon ^^

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MIX CHALLENGE - MC080 September 2021 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#103

Post by Mister Fox »

:arrow: The "Overview of Submissions" PDFs have been uploaded.
You can check them through the upper post (post #101). Apologies for the waiting time.



As officially announced here earlier this month (September 2021), this data sheet is used to give an overview of all entries, and whether or not they are within given parameters (loudness, sampling rate, bitrate). This is adding to the overall learning process of the "Mix(ing) Challenge", and there will be a dedicated "Mix Challenge Addendum thread" explaining the mechanic in even more detail in the foreseeable future (I need some time for that). Please take note that creating this sheet is not a fully automated process. I am using Wavelab 10's "Batch Analysis" tool (EBU R-128 specs / equivalent to ITU-R BS.1770-4), but the overall layout and highlighting issues/mishaps, is time consuming. If you do not find yourself on this list, please let me know.


We have a disqualification rate of 24,00% for September 2021 (75 entries, 18 disqualifications, no "Out of Competition" submissions). UPDATE: The topic of "possible disqualified entries" has been cleared as of 01-OCT-2021.

In comparison to previous months (detailed in spoiler tags):
► Show Spoiler
On average (14 months), we currently have a disqualification rate of 27,71% (compared to last month's 27,99% avg), the rate is on a decline.

Please keep in mind, your mix being tagged "disqualified", does not automatically mean "you're out of the game" (see Wild Card Mechanic, read more about that below).




:arrow: A commentary on this month's entries:

Once more welcome to all new participants that joined this September, from which there are plenty. I hope you enjoy your stay and you could learn something from this experience.

The biggest criticism I have this month, is that I would have loved to read more of your motivation for the direction you went with your mix. I really did miss the "explain at least one sound you're proud of modeling" aspect of the game (mandatory!). A lot of participants, regulars even, just went like "Meh... I'll just drop what equipment I've used". In some cases, only screenshots (which is a no-no!). This is a huge topic every month.

There are sadly also plenty of careless mistakes yet again. The source material was 48kHz 24bit (or 48/24). This can change every month, so paying attention to detail is important. We have four entries that are in 44kHz, one that was a 16bit export even. On a different sidenote: there are a lot of entries that drop down in bitrate due to the more limited soundscape this month. No worries there however - this is just some technical information, everything is fine. As usual, I only tagged "song length" if things have been cut a bit too short. But please... we have a filename template - use it!

Where I have absolutely drawn the line, was with entries that couldn't be downloaded ( @Seba S ), or where a participant was like "I'll post now, and update later" (sorry, @shoma - your entry was not accessible until way past the deadline. The rules clearly state "It is mandatory to document your mix/edit by the end of the deadline" - please post your entry sooner in the future!). And my personal favorite this month: post an entry early into the game (03-SEP-2021), pull it with the comment "I will post again soon, going to make a revision on the mix", ignore the PM by the admin (that I sent out mere hours later on 03-SEP-2021), then post a revision on 18-SEP-2021 with merely an info-dump of what tools where used. I am sorry, @AndrewMcPherson - but this is a textbook example of a rule violation (see Rule Book - post #6, Upload and Submission Guidelines, bullet point 4).


Which brings me to the next four entries. The majority of these showed some strong inconsistencies regarding file update timestamps, while one post has been called out for nigh 1:1 copying. I was going back and forth for a couple of days on what to do, not knowing if I should disqualify your entry or not (because this could hint at a re-upload). I am therefore proposing the following:

:?: Please explain by Wednesday, 29-SEP-2021 23:59 UTC+2/CEST what is actually going on here.

If you can't explain yourself by that time, your entry will be tagged "OUT" and can therefore not advance through the possible use of either the normal gameplay (due to no mishap / "tagged disqualified") or a Wild Card. These particular entries are point of concern:
  • @fcamp -- can you please explain why your file was updated over 17 hours after you've posted on the forum?
  • @jake sg -- technically you only posted screenshots of your used tools (rule violation), but to decide whether or not your entry is completely out of the game - can you please explain why your file was updated roughly 7 hours after you've posted on the forum?
  • @Saccharine_trust -- you're edited your post several times, same goes for your file on Google Drive. Can you please explain what is going on?
  • @zeminor -- your post has been criticized by @m_tree, and I have to agree with him. Why did you nigh 1:1 copy his post? Do you happen to have the very same setup as him? Is this an attempted mix copy? Please explain.
I kindly ask all of you to please be honest, as I am being very generous with this one-time special occasion. We all want to have fun in this game, learn something in the process. If you lie with your response, which I certainly wouldn't know, you would effectively only cheat yourself in the end.



Important to point out (for all new participants): :

Unless your file couldn't be downloaded, or it has been re-uploaded/re-posted during the course of the main submission round, having your entry being tagged as "disqualified" does not mean that you're completely out of the game (yet). Should you be selected for Mix Round 2 by this month's "client" (Song Provider), you have the option to advance through the use of the Wild Card Mechanic.

Please don't be frustrated but rather learn from the experience, find out what went wrong, and use your possible chance to fix this in a follow-up round. This is why the concept of the "Statistics Sheet" and "Wild Card mechanic" exists. It offers you an additional learning factor. Something you usually do not have the chance to outside of this community's monthly competition. :educate:
.




:arrow: I now (re-)open the field for everyone to give each other feedback (highly encouraged). This will be independent to the client feedback however. Though please note - criticism on the rule set and angry posts will be moved to the General Gossip Thread without further notice.


Please watch this spot for the client feedback and Mix Round 2 participant announcement.
This will happen sometime within the next 14 days (starting tomorrow).

fcamp
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC080 September 2021 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#104

Post by fcamp »

Mister Fox wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 07:20 CEST
:arrow: The "Overview of Submissions" PDFs have been uploaded.
  • @fcamp -- can you please explain why your file was updated over 17 hours after you've posted on the forum?

Hi,

Let me first say that it was my first time participating here, and first time sharing a mix I do. I was very aware that I could mess it up. Also, I would like to participate in more challenges, so I wouldn't like to start in my first one looking like a suspicious guy. If I must be disqualified, let be it. (That said, I would love to receive at least some kind of feedback about my mix)

The explanation for the fact that my file appears as updated 17 hours after posting is that initially I didn't share it well with google drive, so it couldn't be downloaded. When I changed the permissions so everyone in the internet could download the file, that was considered as an update by google drive.

It was the kind user Kabuliwallah in post #81 who commented that my file couldn't be downloaded. As soon as I saw it, I changed the permissions for sharing the file and posted in post #83 to ask him (or anyone) if he could check if my file could be downloaded now. He was so kind again to respond me in a positive way in post #95.

I posted my mix in post#71 in Mon Sep 20, 2021 23:17 CEST, and responded asking for checking in post #83 in Tue Sep 21, 2021 17:12 CEST. Those are the 17 hours.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain what happened (and thanks again for Kabuliwallah), I am aware that I could have been directly disqualified.


Edit: I attach here the link to a .zip file with an exact copy inside of the .wav I submitted. It is the original file from September 19th, I copied it and pasted to google drive and then I renamed it there to share it then the following day (the description of the mix approach took some time). The file name inside is 'eavesdrops_Alone_v2f.wav' (f version of the 2nd mix version). I have zipped it so, when sharing, google drives applies the update to the zip file, but not to the wav file inside. Hope it helps.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VQQtfU ... sp=sharing

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Arthur Labus
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC080 September 2021 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#105

Post by Arthur Labus »

Hello @fcamp,

don't feel encouraged, this mix challenges arent yet another mix competitions. It is something extra :D
So lets take a listen ...
First - i think you muted the intro strings ?!
I verse could use some send delay/reverb for guitar on opposite side as it feels extremely "empty" as is.
In choruses the strings are a bit too loud for my taste and at least they fighting the vocals.
Strings could use more saturation as well.
Beside of intro (muted) anything else is very subjective.
You did great job.

shoma
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC080 September 2021 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#106

Post by shoma »

Dear @Mister Fox,

I've just read in one of your pdf-files, that my mix has been diaqualified because the file could not be accessed. Could you please try again and be a little patient? I don't know why, but it takes sometime until the file loads, but at least it works from my computer, even if I'm NOT logged in to my google account. I did not change the url to the file. It's still the same. Please see attached screenshot.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bRBuMC ... sp=sharing

Edit: Funny..the link to my screenshot also takes some time to load, but it will load....I don't know what's wrong... :nutter:

mattaroni_and_cheese
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC080 September 2021 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#107

Post by mattaroni_and_cheese »

Is this a good point to start discussing what we've learned or really should be just be providing feedback on mixes ? I heard a lot of really good mixes out there, most a lot better than mine lol ... but that's how we learn right :)

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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC080 September 2021 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#108

Post by DIVESPANNER »

Hi, thanks again to Mr. Fox for another extensive report much appreciated.
I have a comment about a possible rendering glitch at the beginning of the song, is this part of the comments noted as technical information nothing to worry about, or have I encountered a free radical gremlin that I haven't noticed heard, or checked for, or possibly I've made a mixing error would appreciate any and all comments on this and any other aspect of my mix all views and comments gratefully received everyone if you consider yourself to be a beginner or a seasoned pro I appreciate your views many thanks for your input all the best and good luck to all. :grin: :tu:
PS
By the way, you can find the link to my version on page three near the bottom. :phones: :phones: :tu:
Last edited by DIVESPANNER on Sun Sep 26, 2021 21:32 CEST, edited 1 time in total.

DIVESPANNER
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC080 September 2021 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#109

Post by DIVESPANNER »

mattaroni_and_cheese wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 18:43 CEST
Is this a good point to start discussing what we've learned or really should be just be providing feedback on mixes ? I heard a lot of really good mixes out there, most a lot better than mine lol ... but that's how we learn right :)
Think it's safe to comment as we see fit now feel free to share all your secret mixing techniques. :educate: :tu:

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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC080 September 2021 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

#110

Post by Mister Fox »

Let me quickly jump in hear and sort out some open topics.


But first, let me make clear that I am aware of Google Drive's "editing" feature (which also changes the time-stamp). I am also aware that Dropbox can see/have replaced files with the same link. The thing however on my end... I can only see the time stamps on Google Drive, and only if I log into my Google account. For Dropbox, there is literally nothing. I need to do some more experimentation with this (if I want to dig even deeper that is).

I've been making notes for 3 games now on that particular topic (offsets). But it takes a lot of extra time to double check, which is why I'm merely focusing on spot checks (especially with new participants). I brought this up the first time with MC079, and now again because of the huge offsets. So I am sorry if this comes on a bit too strong, but I would like things to be fair for everyone.



With that said:
fcamp wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:19 CEST
It was the kind user Kabuliwallah in post #81 who commented that my file couldn't be downloaded. As soon as I saw it, I changed the permissions for sharing the file and posted in post #83 to ask him (or anyone) if he could check if my file could be downloaded now. He was so kind again to respond me in a positive way in post #95.

I posted my mix in post#71 in Mon Sep 20, 2021 23:17 CEST, and responded asking for checking in post #83 in Tue Sep 21, 2021 17:12 CEST. Those are the 17 hours.
I saw the conversation (again), and while working myself through the material, it seems like I already forgot it. Apologies for that.

Also checked the ZIP files. Things are fine, you are therefore "off" of the "tagged disqualified" list. (will update PDFs ASAP)




shoma wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 15:05 CEST
I've just read in one of your pdf-files, that my mix has been diaqualified because the file could not be accessed. Could you please try again and be a little patient? I don't know why, but it takes sometime until the file loads, but at least it works from my computer, even if I'm NOT logged in to my google account. I did not change the url to the file. It's still the same. Please see attached screenshot.
Here is the thing... I actually did check your file first, and I did check it several times after my post from 0:10 UTC+2/CEST on 22-SEP-2021. I started downloading shortly after forum maintenance and was done with downloading the first batch at about 0:45min. Then I checked those files that I couldn't download before if they're accessible (basically offering a grace period). Since that that didn't work still, I moved on to the next batch.

I checked again on around 4:30 after I was done with every file and writing notes. Then suddenly, not only your was your post updated with documentation (0:44), but your file was also magically available with a time stamp of 0:46.

For confirmation (file will auto-delete in 1 month):

Image


I am sorry, but the rules clearly state (post #7, Upload and Submission Guidelines, bullet point 4 and 7):
Upload and Submission Guidelines
  • ...
  • You are only allowed to submit one entry per competition. Please do not upload "several revisions" or "premasters" (see "Mixing and Editing Guidelines" above). Your entry is final - no re-submissions with changes allowed unless you're selected for Mix Round 2 (see FAQ)
  • ---
  • edits must be easily available to download by the end of each deadline (e.g. 21st of the month, 23:59 UTC+1/CET or 23:59 UTC+2/CEST) without the need of any special login, a decryption key, download tools (EXE installers) or various captcha requests. Please double check prior to posting on the forum that your material can be accessed with the correct rights (e.g. test with a different web browser, a private tab, and/or log out of your cloud service).
  • ...
.
You posted on 21-SEP-2021 23:51 UTC+2/CEST. You also wrote "documentation will be added later" (basically getting a foot into the door). The rules are clear on that particular topic - this hasn't changed in years. You can't just ask me (or a client for that matter) "to be patient" after.

I got your file now (see PDF, I downloaded it on 22-SEP-2021 4:38 UTC+2/CEST), but I am sorry. In fairness for everyone, I sadly have to take your entry out of the game. Next time, please get your material and documentation in order prior to posting.




DIVESPANNER wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 18:45 CEST
Hi, thanks again to Mr. Fox for another extensive report much appreciated.
I have a comment about a possible rendering glitch at the beginning of the song, is this part of the comments noted as technical information nothing to worry about, or have I encountered a free radical gremlin that I haven't noticed heard, or checked for, or possibly I've made a mixing error would appreciate any and all comments on this and any other aspect of my mix all views and comments gratefully received everyone if you consider yourself to be a beginner or a seasoned pro I appreciate your views many thanks for your input all the best and good luck to all.
Two things, please... Punctuation and check the links you're posting. Thank you.

I noticed "the gremlin" after you mentioned "added silence at the beginning of the mix". So I checked what you meant, and there was a piano chord that technically shouldn't be there. This might hopefully explain your question.




mattaroni_and_cheese wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 18:43 CEST
Is this a good point to start discussing what we've learned or really should be just be providing feedback on mixes ? I heard a lot of really good mixes out there, most a lot better than mine lol ... but that's how we learn right :)
This is the best point for starting an open conversation of what one learned, give feedback to each other, ask questions, etc.

Keep in mind, this will be independent from the feedback from the Song Provider ( @Square ), who ultimately has the final word.

And please also keep in mind, criticism about the game itself, and it's mechanics, go into the General Gossip Thread for the Mix(ing) Challenge. Constructive(!!!!) criticism towards me, please either via PM or the Contact Form via the homepage.




I will update the PDFs within the next 2 hours.
EDIT - 22:50 UTC+2/CEST: Statistics Sheets have been updated

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