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MIX CHALLENGE - MC37 October 2017 - Winners announced

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Jonssin Musiikki
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:49 pm

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC37 October 2017 - Submissions until 21-10-2017 11:59pm GMT+1/CEST

Post by Jonssin Musiikki » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:52 pm

Hi

Great song here's my submission
Wav: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByEDP ... 1RYWlRzZ1k
MP3: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByEDP ... TRoMUk4V00

And to the mix breakdown

First i balanced mix to my taste :)
After that i eq every track with high and low cuts and couple notches on resonant peaks and Waves NLS on every channel and master buss (MIKE channel).
Bass: divided in three by frequencies first band had lowpass round 360hz and compressed to death. Second band cut lows out below 350hz and again compressed but not so much, and after that sended it to Supertap and created some chorusing delay.
Third one was bandpassed round 150hz and distorted. After that to Cakewalk CA-2a and after that to slight reverb and Compressed to glue sound together.
Piano was panned by the frequencies and compressed with CLA-76 and boosted some highs at 12khz. Some reverb and compression
Shakers was first treated with waves X-Noise eq'd and compressed with CA-2a. Tamb was treated with Z-noise and and eq and gated after that to limiter and MCUJ.
Shakers and tamborine added reverb and compressed together
Acoustic Guitar were equed, CA-2A and doubled with waves ultrapitch and after that slight slap delay and exciter.
Acoustic solo quite same but added some chorus effect.
Electric guitar were only eq on their own channels. After that sended guitars to reverb swapped left and right channel on reverb and last did some buss compressing.

All vocals was treated with X-Noise then equed. Main vocal with double stacked CA-2A each one doing 1-2db gr. Little multiband compression -> deessing, equed with puigtec and V-eq's
And lastly compressed with CLA-76.
Bg Voxes i compressed with RVox and C4 multiband and equed. After that sended All vocals to Vocal reverb and to Vocal Buss and compressed.

Master buss: Nomad's ASBusComp and compressed a round 3-4db gr. Slight Eq and limiter with 3db gain.

RotterN
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:24 pm

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC37 October 2017 - Submissions until 21-10-2017 11:59pm GMT+1/CEST

Post by RotterN » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:52 pm

Jonssin Musiikki wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:52 pm
Hi

Great song here's my submission
Wav: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByEDP ... 1RYWlRzZ1k
MP3: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByEDP ... TRoMUk4V00

And to the mix breakdown

First i balanced mix to my taste :)
After that i eq every track with high and low cuts and couple notches on resonant peaks and Waves NLS on every channel and master buss (MIKE channel).
Bass: divided in three by frequencies first band had lowpass round 360hz and compressed to death. Second band cut lows out below 350hz and again compressed but not so much, and after that sended it to Supertap and created some chorusing delay.
Third one was bandpassed round 150hz and distorted. After that to Cakewalk CA-2a and after that to slight reverb and Compressed to glue sound together.
Piano was panned by the frequencies and compressed with CLA-76 and boosted some highs at 12khz. Some reverb and compression
Shakers was first treated with waves X-Noise eq'd and compressed with CA-2a. Tamb was treated with Z-noise and and eq and gated after that to limiter and MCUJ.
Shakers and tamborine added reverb and compressed together
Acoustic Guitar were equed, CA-2A and doubled with waves ultrapitch and after that slight slap delay and exciter.
Acoustic solo quite same but added some chorus effect.
Electric guitar were only eq on their own channels. After that sended guitars to reverb swapped left and right channel on reverb and last did some buss compressing.

All vocals was treated with X-Noise then equed. Main vocal with double stacked CA-2A each one doing 1-2db gr. Little multiband compression -> deessing, equed with puigtec and V-eq's
And lastly compressed with CLA-76.
Bg Voxes i compressed with RVox and C4 multiband and equed. After that sended All vocals to Vocal reverb and to Vocal Buss and compressed.

Master buss: Nomad's ASBusComp and compressed a round 3-4db gr. Slight Eq and limiter with 3db gain.
Hi Jonssin,

I think your stems may not be properly aligned as the timing sounds out to me. Also the Acoustic Guitar sounds quite thin? Was this intentional? If not it sounds like you have some Phase Cancellation going on. This quite often happens if you are mixing on Headphones. Due to the proximity of the drivers to the ear it isn't always noticeable on cans, that is why you are always best checking your final mix on as many different systems / speakers as possible.

- RotterN
Last edited by RotterN on Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RotterN
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:24 pm

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC37 October 2017 - Submissions until 21-10-2017 11:59pm GMT+1/CEST

Post by RotterN » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:02 pm

martman22 wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:46 am
Here is my re-submission.

Thank you for the second chance! My apologies to the author and other members if I offended you in any way.
It really is a beautiful song. After listening to it so many times it really grows on you.

mp3:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7DeI ... VhKak1zcnM

wav:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7DeI ... 3p2YXlibmc
Hi Martman,

Good submission, nice mix this time. Good balance of all the different elements. As a suggestion(purely my thoughts) you may want to try a side widener or some m/s processing next time, it probably could have made it sound more spacious. But solid mix, well done.

-RotterN

Jonssin Musiikki
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:49 pm

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC37 October 2017 - Submissions until 21-10-2017 11:59pm GMT+1/CEST

Post by Jonssin Musiikki » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:05 pm

RotterN wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:52 pm
Hi Jonssin,

I think your stems may not be properly aligned as the timing sounds out to me. Also the Acoustic Guitar sounds quite thin? Was this intentional? If not it sounds like you have some Phase Cancellation going on.

RotterN
Hi RottetrN
guitar It was semi intentional :) i kinda wanted to be powerfull but it would kinda overhelm other elements so i decided to go for thinner sound, but timing issues were not would have to recheck delay compensation in possible round2

RotterN
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:24 pm

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC37 October 2017 - Submissions until 21-10-2017 11:59pm GMT+1/CEST

Post by RotterN » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:10 pm

[/quote]
Hi RottetrN
guitar It was semi intentional :) i kinda wanted to be powerfull but it would kinda overhelm other elements so i decided to go for thinner sound, but timing issues were not would have to recheck delay compensation in possible round2
[/quote]

I see what you are saying, however I think it is definitely causing some Phase issues. I have found that using a Multiband Compressor can be good for thickening up but keeping control so that it doesn't over power the mix. Just a suggestion to try. :smile:

- RotterN

RotterN
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:24 pm

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC37 October 2017 - Submissions until 21-10-2017 11:59pm GMT+1/CEST

Post by RotterN » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:14 pm

Dodgingrain wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:40 am
Here are mine, I really enjoyed the song, thanks for letting us take a shot at mixing it. I spent most of the time trying to eq the parts to fit well with each other and quite a bit of time widening out the track. I did my best to tune the background vocals where they were off pitch. I have no idea how to get rid of the bleed on the backing vocal tracks but I don't think it causes to much of an issue in the mix where I think it's low enough that it can't be heard. I used a plate reverb for the vocals and a room reverb for the band which is what I normally do. For widening the track I hard panned some of the parts and then did a sent to an effects bus with a short delay around 30ms or so that was hard panned to the opposite side with some small eq and level changes. I think on one or two of those I may have also reversed the phase. There are some other delays on guitar parts as well. I think I had the most fun with the guitar chorus part and I really like the sound I ended up with on that. In one or two spots I adjusted the shaker timing where it gets slightly off. Beyond the standard compression tricks there is some automation during a few of the transitions to try and bring out some additional emotion.

I appreciate anyone's feedback on the mix.

wave: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AqpB-RLndYJriYMNpke_P0LFpf0d4Q

mp3: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AqpB-RLndYJriYMMNQZWbegDKlitIg
Hi dodgingrain,

Nice mix and balance of all the elements. Well done.

-RotterN

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Mister Fox
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Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC37 October 2017 - Submissions until 21-10-2017 11:59pm GMT+1/CEST

Post by Mister Fox » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:04 pm

Just out of curiosity... (and because this production seems to trigger more discussions than usual)

I do understand possible de-noising of the material. There is indeed a lot of bleeding in certain channels - which in turn also adds character and shows that not every production is created in a professional studio, yet can still sound outstanding! Praise modern and affordable technology.


HOWEVER... from what I read from the submission reports, and heard so far, that's a highly excessive use. Another thing that puzzles me is the need for "pitching" the material. Yes, the songwriter is not a professional singer (it's still a great performance!), but this is what gives the production character IMO.

The timing for the shakers and tambourine is a thing to debate - though even here, I'd say "character" - it's the only percussive element alongside the piano (which is digital!) and the acoustic guitar.

But okay, this is part of the challenge - you decide what needs to be edited/fixed and how. I'm just surprised by so much pitch shifting (listen closer to the vocal material again!)


Jonssin Musiikki wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:52 pm
Piano was panned by the frequencies and compressed with CLA-76 and boosted some highs at 12khz. Some reverb and compression
Can you please explain why? (digital piano to begin with)
Did you use (for example) DDMF's Directional EQ for this?


Jonssin Musiikki wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:52 pm
Master buss: Nomad's ASBusComp and compressed a round 3-4db gr. Slight Eq and limiter with 3db gain.
Mix Challenge - Rules and Guidelines Addendum: Summing Bus Treatment

Unless you're using the Limiter for gain compensation and not actual limiting.


 ! Bonus Info
Despite all of this - I appreciate giving active feedback to each other - though please keep in mind that your entry is final until the next round starts. (see rules set)

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Dodgingrain
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC37 October 2017 - Submissions until 21-10-2017 11:59pm GMT+1/CEST

Post by Dodgingrain » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:45 pm

Another thing that puzzles me is the need for "pitching" the material. Yes, the songwriter is not a professional singer (it's still a great performance!), but this is what gives the production character IMO.
I agree with you on the pitching. My thought was that the lead vocal was good as is and any variations there give it character that helped the song. Personally I prefer a lead vocal that isn't perfect and has some flaws which add a ton of interest and make the singer feel like a real person.
The pitching I worked on was strictly on the backing vocals where it felt like their was some beating (synthesis term for pitches off by less than an interval causing a beating effect) as the vocal parts played against each other. The pitch shift were less than an interval and mostly in the range of 10-20 cents. I debated about dumping one of the backing vocals out of each set and duplicating the track I kept along with pulling in and editing for the parts where the vocals diverged in notes but I decided not to go that far. I think I pitch less than 2 bars total, it felt like it was needed mostly in the first part where the backing vocals came in.
The timing for the shakers and tambourine is a thing to debate - though even here, I'd say "character" - it's the only percussive element alongside the piano (which is digital!) and the acoustic guitar.
Similarly with the timing on the shakers it was really only a single bar where I made an adjustment and I didn't correct it completely so it retained the original feel. The biggest issue I had with the shaker was how to introduce them so late in the track without them standing out too much to the listener.
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Jonssin Musiikki
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:49 pm

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC37 October 2017 - Submissions until 21-10-2017 11:59pm GMT+1/CEST

Post by Jonssin Musiikki » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:48 pm

Mister Fox wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:04 pm
Jonssin Musiikki wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:52 pm
Piano was panned by the frequencies and compressed with CLA-76 and boosted some highs at 12khz. Some reverb and compression

Can you please explain why? (digital piano to begin with)
Did you use (for example) DDMF's Directional EQ for this?
I used image line's equo. And why not? tried it and liked no particular reason to be honest :grin:
Mister Fox wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:04 pm
Jonssin Musiikki wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:52 pm
Master buss: Nomad's ASBusComp and compressed a round 3-4db gr. Slight Eq and limiter with 3db gain.
Mix Challenge - Rules and Guidelines Addendum: Summing Bus Treatment

Unless you're using the Limiter for gain compensation and not actual limiting.
Just gain compensation no limiting

fese
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:09 pm
Location: Bonn

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC37 October 2017 - Submissions until 21-10-2017 11:59pm GMT+1/CEST

Post by fese » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:30 pm

Hi all,
haven't listened to all the songs yet, but regarding pitch and timing:
I am the first to admit that those are my biggest weaknesses - which I am often annoyed about myself - so in general I have no problem with corrections there, as long as it doesn't sound artificial and the original vibe (whatever that is ;) is retained. A little goes a long way.
Bleed on the background vocals, I noticed that, too, but personally I decided to do nothing about it as I don't find it hurts the song. Also, I wouldn't know how to "fix" that :)
Mister Fox wrote: Praise modern and affordable technology.
I'll second that. When I listen to my old recordings back in the days of my Portastudio, oh, boy... horrible. I might never be a great musician from a technical side, but nowadays I have the possibility of realizing my songs and making them at least somewhat presentable!
Although mixing was much easier then... Four tracks, volume, pan, hi and lo shelf and exactly one effect from my NanoVerb!

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