Mix Challenge

Thank you very much HerbFelho!

I did not want to play the loudness war at all!

I tried to use no limiting, just a tad to catch little peaks, so I'll be aware of my mistake next time: thanks for pointing that!


As far as muting, I think it is absolutely great if we can, if it leads to such interesting results. Herb did it very well.

Not my decision anyway, and valid question btw FixInTheMix.




Please keep HerbFehlo's mix!

kevin gobin wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 23, 2017 20:07 CET

Please keep HerbFehlo's mix!

Just to clarify I´m not suggesting that Herb´s mix should be disqualified or anything, just curious about the muting subject, if it´s allowed I´ll probably use it on future challenges myself

Of course! No offense!

Finally there´s an interesting topic for discussion!

Actually I´m glad you brought this up FixIt cause I was asking this myself. So I read the rules again before starting to mute things, couldn´t find anything about muting parts and went on
So the one question left to clarify is if muting parts is actually changing the arrangement?

I think there´s a BIG difference in muting opposed to adding something. I think everyone will agree that adding for example additional guitars or backing vocals, samples or whatever would provide a clear advantage in a contest that nobody should be allowed to have. But muting?

Just think about the four acoustic guitar tracks that were provided for this song. I would definitely say that they´re not all necessary for the song since they mostly play the same thing and I´m also quite sure that some contestants did not use one or more of these, so essentially MUTED the whole track. Then this would be against the rules also?

The other thing is, we talk about the real world scenarios all the time and in my opinion making suggestions like this to an artists - and it is only meant as a suggestion like i posted - is one of the real world duties of a mix engineer, especially when he is working with inexperienced bands like we have here I guess.

So not allowing to mute parts in my opinion would be a shame and hijack the tools we have to actually make a mix interesting or enhance it´s emotions, all tasks of a mix engineer...

So, all things considered, to me there´s really a big difference between muting an adding parts, curious what other got to say here.

Don´t get me wrong, if the majority - or Mister Fox - should have a different opinion on that I´m of course willing to accept that and play by the rules...

Hi all ,
Good point here to discuss , first of all i like what you did ,but in music theory and btw i have finished music studies from a bit long time ago ,so talking in music like silence , the same !! so you simply added silence !! i'm not against anything , we mixing by our experience and feeling and i think you are not break any rules here, but things like that must be clear to everyone when we make mixing next time.

He tried to fix the timing and give the artist a different perspective on the song. I feel like sometimes (other contests) the contributor is stuck in his/her mix already and isn't interested in a different approach. If that's the case then they just don't like the mix...no big deal...no round 2. I was tempted to try to fix some of the same issues he went after. Don't penalize someone for putting in extra work. My opinion. You mute something because you think it doesn't work. I change tones of guitars everyday because they just aren't working for me. I will also fade it so low only a dog can hear it. If it's that bad or unnecessary (maybe it's phasing) I'll hit the mute.

I consider a mute ok. To me a mute is just a degree of level change. At some point if I make the track low enough it's more or less a mute anyway even if it isn't really muted. Taking it to the extreme a gate could be considered a mute even. I guess we'll see what the rule wizards say.

I'm sorry that I can't go super in-depth on this, as I'd need to get acquainted with the source material again (I've been handling so much audio stuff lately), and really compare each mix in minute detail to say "that's okay, that's not okay", etc.


Let's just say this... there were a couple of tracks as "addition", like the room track of the harmonica, or Guitar 2 (which was an overdub for added flavor) and it's room recording being it's "double take" so to speak. If you managed with Automation and nudging the tracks, to get a more consistent mix out of it. That's fine. If the harmonica room track and guitar 2 was not part of the full mix, that's fine as well (it was stated that this is not mandatory). But completely dropping (muting) a part which was originally in the mix... then that's up to debate. Unless that was part of the rule set.

In this case, see MC26 (Oct 2016)

Mix Challenge 26 wrote:ADD-ON RULE: cutting away the beat section (in part or fully) during certain parts is allowed to create impact, as long as it's done moderately

Yes, it (muting) would improve the production/mix in some cased, if the client knows of what you're planning to (read: interaction with him), agrees to that, and if it's not cutting away important parts.

But imagine this: you have a pianist and two guitarists, and they make up the majority of the song. Each has their own part, their own story to tell via music. And you're like "nah, this part is too much - I need to cut it away to make room for others". While this might certainly help - it's changing the arrangement. At least in my opinion. Hence always the comment "you get the tracks 'as is' and you need to treat them like that". This will actually be important for the upcoming challenge - which is a dense cluster of various source signals.

Granted, this band might not have experience with recording - but definitely on stage. So going the Jason Newsted route might not always be the best route to go.


Ultimately, it's the decision by the song provider ("the client").
I can only nudge the participants into a certain direction to stick to the given rules. I only step in if somebody really stepped over the boarders.



Other than that:
I can definitely confirm that the mix is really a bit loud... maybe the "artistically treated summing bus" was a bit pushed too hard?

In my case, I muted the 12 string and one of the acoustic guitars on the intro, leaving 2 guitars and the harmonica until drums kick in with the rest of the band. I don't know if muting counts as rearrangement. It could if you mute really important elements like the voice or the solo guitar, but in small doses, on the right elements, I think it's harmless.

Nice discussion about muting some instrument. I agree if too much accoustic guitar play same pattern is not efficient (in my style), and i was consider to further discussion with the "client" (song provider) about that before i submit. but i'm doubt to do it, because theres no rules about further discussing with "client" (correct me if i'm wrong about the rule)