MIX CHALLENGE - MC043 May 2018 - Winners announced

[Dodgingrain]

Cubase GONE. Reaper IN. I'm sold.

Yes, I've seen that issue quite a few times not only with timing but with other "features" or plugins as well. For me Cubase is close enough that I don't worry about it beyond a final QA check on the rendered files to check for problems. Occasionally I need to do a work around. The world I come from is to have as much as possible in midi and only deal with audio when its necessary and Cubase is good on the midi side assuming a good enough computer to deal with latency. I'm relatively new to mixing.

[Olli H]

Question about tempo change: I decided to do the linear tempo transition to the stereo mix. Not to the multitracks.

I tried to ways

REAPER AND STRETCH MARKERS
In my limited knowledge of Reaper I was thinking that linear transition are possible only to midi files, not to audio tracks. (Actually I’m still thinking that way). So I made it manually with about 10 stretch markers.

MELODYNE 4
I wanted to try another version with new Melodyne. It’s not one of the easiest programs to use, so it took quite long for me to find a suitable method to do a linear tempo change from 130 to 128, but when I finally found a solution, after it took only couple of minutes to bring a new mix to my tempochange-project and export it with identical tempo change.

Afterwords I compared those two versions. I came to conclusion that Melodyne did a bit better job. But I would have preferred to use the 128 version without any tempo changes and artefacts.

[Nonlinear]

FYI - there are a couple of things you can do in Reaper to make stretching more transparent. In "Item Properties" for each item there is the "Take Pitch/Timestretch Mode" panel where you can select the best sounding algorithm FOR THAT TAKE. There is also a box called "Stretch Marker Fade Size" with a default of 2.5mS. You can change that number to a bigger fade size, like 50mS, and it will make a smoother transition at that point.

You can also create stretch RAMPS from the default stretch STEPS. Each stretch marker has a "Slope" that tilts the stretch. You can right-click edit or change the tilt just by moving with the mouse. Moving these points creates stretch ramps that can transition smoothly - rather than in a step - to each stretch marker.

All of this takes some experimenting to figure out and apply (and can be quite daunting!) - but it's an incredible feature set, IMHO.

[Mork]

Actually there is many ways to do the same thing in Reaper ! I decided from the beginning I'll do time stretching after complete my mix ! for the sake of ocd i like to approach mix with the original tempo - this is what I learned !! and less chaos to me.
So back to Reaper - I made just 2 stretching marker from bar 1 to end -switch mode to beat set tempo and align them up and vola .
-Made 2 (Normal) marker between the bars 98.1.00 and 114.1.00 -hit (shift c) tempo time signature marker and check gradually transition tempo to the next marker and set the tempo to 128 BPM. (you could use automation tempo here as well) but this feature more way better if you want liner tempo.
-Select marker number 2 (bar 114) and do the same but unchecked (gradually transition tempo to the next marker)and set the tempo to 130 - Render and vola.

After I stopped banging my head on the desk because the internet told me for the one bazzilionth time how to change the tempo but keep the pitch for the WHOLE SONG (aka typing in a new tempo), I found something similar and thought of using stretch markers. But I was like "C'MON! Where is that freaking "lock playrate to tempo" tick mark?". It could have been so easy, like Fox described in the notes for Cubase. I couldn't believe it, usually there is a simple way to do stuff in Reaper for everything, you just have to find it. Not this time... it's been a sad day

Cheers
Mork

[Jorgeelalto]

Hey guys, quick update: I'm having problems downloading your mixes from Google Drive, I don't know if it has to do with the redesign or what but it's a problem in my end. I will try with Chromium (I use Firefox), if I'm not successful I'll just listen the previews and that's it, but I hope I can fix the thing! Thanks for your patience,

Jorge

PD: The mixes that are uploaded on other streaming services work OK, don't worry.

Update edit: Working nice from Chromium, latest build.

[Jorgeelalto]

Here we go! :


Dodgingrain: The mix of the drums is excellent, I really like the punchyness and definition of every element, even if the hi hats are too silent. The rest of the elements are too washed out, they sound like if they were far away (maybe too much reverb), specially the strings. The pumping is also a bit strange in the house part (the second “drop”), I don’t know what curve are you using for it (or the compressor release if you are sidechaining with one), but maybe it opens too late. The piano sounds amazing too, very big and open.

Dwic: The sequenced gates, delays and effects you added definitely make an emphasis on the trancey sound of the track, I love it. Nice sound of the drums too, balanced with the bass parts. The transition to the house part, although is done pretty well, when the new section starts it’s like all the build up sounds are lost and it sounds like it is made of two different tracks cut and pasted. The track has a very nice clarity that I particularly enjoy, but it does not have excessive highs (that are usually used to give 'air' and all that stuff).

Giri IS: Well, I don’t know if you have a serious lack of bass in your monitoring system (read: speakers or headphones) but overall the track has a lot of kick, too much in my opinion. If I put my speakers in a reasonable volume taking the kick as a reference, I lose the rest of the track (including the bass, but mostly the pads, strings and leads). The rest of the drums are also significantly louder than the rest of the instruments. I would have really liked to give you feedback on the rest of the things but I can’t hear anything else! If you had a problem rendering the track (you muted or soloed something, or you accidentally increased the volume of a track…) please tell me and I will gladly review your track again. Unfortunately I don’t know if you could pass to the next stage and qualify for the final but I will review it nonetheless if you like.

Kevin Gobin: Nice balance of everything, the drums and bass combo is punchy and defined, The pads and strings parts in the trance section, among with the sequenced lead, also glue together. But the house part is a bit more messy, the bass is too muddy and the piano is only taking the mid high part of the spectrum and that leaves a hole around the mids, which feel a bit empty (does not happen in the trance part since the sequenced bass covers that area of the spectrum).

KevinWhite: Good stereo image, I like how wide it is while keeping the kick in the middle. Maybe the bass with the pads combination is a bit muddy, not very defined. The clap has a delay that moves it from the beat and creates a weird sound? The pads, piano and keys in the house part are very nicely mixed but the drums are too quiet and it’s a bit complicated to follow the rhythm; that’s a pity because apart from that, that part sounds pretty good.

Marc clement: Very nice punchy kick, and good cohesion with the rest of the drums. The trance part sounds amazing, even though the drums are a bit dry. I don’t know how you did the tempo transition though, sounds like there is no fade anywhere, it sounds a bit strange but that’s the only bad thing I could pick from your mix. The house part is also very balanced and nice.

MOA22: Good balance with the drum elements and the kick, although the bass is too loud in the house part (I’d check it with headphones if your speakers don’t get those low frequencies correctly), even though the trance bass is nicely leveled. Overall a good mix (could be a bit more dynamic though, think about automating delays and reverbs and such), only the bass thing which may create many problems with loudness and mastering.

Mork: Again, the overall sound is pretty nice. Maybe there is a bit of excess in the pumping since all the effects and little atmosphere details give the impression of being gated. I like how well pumped is the main trance bass, though, it has just the right amount of ducking and stereo image and it really fills the track. The transition from the trance to the house part is totally nailed, and all the pryda snares and risers sound in their place (I like how you did it more than how I did in my own mix!).
Nonlinear: Cool lowpass automation you did there! It breaks the monotony of the trance bass in the first part. Good balances with mostly everything, although the clap sounds a bit too loud at the beginning; later in the track the drum levels are better. Nice lowpass for the piano in the transition too, it again adds movement. The house part maybe has a too wide stereo image, even if when I monoize the track it does not lose much it has too many overlapping elements in the stereo field, mostly with the strings.

Olli H: Nailed the kick and the drums there, very punchy and defined, and their interaction with the bass is also very good. You gave more volume to the percussion tracks and honestly it sounds very nice, I didn’t managed to get a good mix of those. The house part loses all the momentum just after the transition, you build up a lot of energy but it doesn’t really match with that beginning. Later on it gets fixed and the drums (that kick!) get back, nicely done.

Piranha: Nice dynamics with the pumping and the balance in the mids and low frequencies. The transition to the house part is nicely done with the continuation of the riser effect. Maybe the mix is too muddy, not clear enough and while the drums have a good ambient sound (reverb I suppose) the trance bass and the pads seem too far away, although the sub bass is well done.

Saras: Although the mix is pretty good overall, the “smiley” equalization curve that everything has is a bit too much (read: there is bass (that kick) and there are high frequencies, but the mids are too low for almost all instruments, specially for the drums). Nailed the transition though, and the volume balances are nice, I like that. The only problem I could find was that, the (in)famous “EDM mastering EQ curve” that mostly ruins the detail of the sound.

SRMix: The same problem as Saras, too much bass and too much high frequencies. This could be a monitoring problem (your speakers are too muddy or do not have a nice response with highs/lows?). From what I can hear ignoring the EQ curves, the balances are nice except for the closed hi hat (which I think is a bit too loud), but again the whole track has lows and highs (almost) exclusively.

VasDim: The trance part is very good, you nailed the stereo image, although there are some drum parts here and there that are a bit too loud (some crashes, the shaker in the house part). Again the transition is not bad but there is some loss of energy from the pryda snare to the start of that second part. The rest of the breaks and changes are nicely mixed, including the last one from house to trance.

Wizzo: I really liked the delay in the M1 organ bass at the beginning, really glues that intro to the start of the track. The general sound is mostly nice, I like the volumes and the panning of the drums. Maybe the mids could be clearer and the drums lose punchiness in the house part. The big transition from trance to house is a bit washed out, and it loses some energy. Also, while the pumping effect is neat and clear in the trance part, there is not much in the second one and the organ bass interferes a bit with the kick in the lows.

Davidpaulpaige: I love the work you did in the transition part. That last piano chord with the delay FX is amazing really, I wish it was in my original track! Unfortunately the sound comes too fast and the drums kick in all of a sudden and I think it might have been better with a more progressive entry, although I can more or less imagine what you were heading for. The sound of the house part is very nice too, it’s more ambiental than my own take but it has its own sound that I like. The trance part could use a bit work though, specially in the pumping and dynamics to maintain the groove, and maybe being a bit less washed out could help too.


Overall I didn’t commented much about the tempo transition since it was an extra part of the challenge and I confess it’s a pretty hard thing to manage when you are working with audio (much easier in MIDI). I didn’t take it into account for the most part but good work to everyone, and it was interesting to read your comments on that in the previous replies. This time I tried to comment a bit more on all the submissions (I checked and in my last contribution I only had two lines for each of you, this time I have 4-6) and make at least one good comment of each one (because if I didn’t it looked like I only hated on some tracks, and that’s not what this is about!).

A last thing! Be careful with the master buss, I normalized all the tracks to RMS references (0 LU I think) and there are many tracks that were a bit squeezed, “mastering compressed” I would say.


So the participants that pass to the second round are, in no particular order:
- Davidpaulpaige
- VasDim
- Olli H
- Nonlinear
- Mork
- Marc clement
- MOA22
- Dwic

Thanks everybody for participating, I definitely loved to hear the track with all these different characters and details! I hope you had as much fun as I had listening to your mixes


Jorge

[Mister Fox]

Thank you for handling the evaluation, Jorge.

Let us kick off Mix Round 2, which will end on Monday, 04-JUN-2018 11:59pm GMT+2/CEST


There is a GLOBAL COUNTDOWN available to check for deadlines.
Just follow this link: Global Countdown (on homepage)



The following 8 participants go into Round 2 (alphabetical order)

Davidpaulpaige
Dwic
Marc clement
MOA22
Mork
Nonlinear
Olli H
VasDim

A thank you to everyone, and good luck for Round 2

[MOA22]

Thanks for the review Jorge. Let's polish it !

[MOA22]

So,
I am done. Just tweaked some stuff. Plus added some creative and spacial fx. Some parallel comp on the drums bus. Added a gentle room reverb (i didn't before). Nothing is drastic. About the bass, tried to tweak it, but didn't found there was really too much of it during the house part, just changed the cut in the lo mid range. Btw added overall some ultra low range, just subharmonics (master bus).
Thank you Jorge !

Here it is ! Moa22 MC 43 revision

[VasDim]

Hi all,
this is my mix for Round 2:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jpdexyw5pg72u ... m.mp3?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g785ukucdwy5w ... m.wav?dl=0

Good luck to all.
VasDim