MIX CHALLENGE - MC099 August 2024 - Winners announced

[Mange]

For me if you add what can be described in musical notes you are out of mixing territory. Personally I put throw delays in that category as well, and quite frankly, the majority of throw delays are lame as **** and are there to fill a hole left by the arranger/producer. Provider should either provide a printed throw or add something more interesting, maybe a tasty lick on a real instrument.

Another aspect is mangling a sound to sounding as something completely different. Not really a mixers job if not you are hired to add your personal spice to the mix. Definitely not a mastering engineers job either. A MEs job is to make audio fit chosen media and make it translate. The mix is already approved by the producer.

Something I don´t mind a mixer do is using drum samples. Just don't use ready processed samples. A good use for drum samples is using a sample to send to a reverb... without any bleed. Use something that sounds like similar. Some people use snare explosions on folk rock. Don't do that.

Other things I think is ok is shifting stuff to remedy issues. Like guitar missed a note on the second chord of the first chorus. So, copy it from another chorus. Or, copying some background vocals from another place to make it fuller.

Fixing missed timing and tuning issues. To tune a vocal so it sounds tuned (effect).. I think it´s ok if that is what is ordered but... such tuned effect should be provided by producer. Otherwise, I find it ok to tune a vocal so it still sounding natural.

[elements]

Personally, I’ve been using this competition to experiment with a few ideas here and there, different workflows, different programmes and I realise that if I’m going to advance into further rounds I’m going to have to pull the reigns in significantly to produce something more in line with the supplied production.


Obviously, different mix engineers have different approaches to mixing (like big name mixers), but when we’re not in constant contact with the client we probably should remain on the more conservative side of the fence unless we are absolutely certain it’s a free for all or we don’t really care if anybody wants to listen to what we produce or not.

It’s an interesting process and I’m glad that there is this place that is offering the opportunity to practice.

[kombainera]

If u ask me its very simple if i have 16 tracks to mix i mix 16 tracks. My goal is they to sound better then the moment i open them in the project if that is done jobe done. This days most people forgot that mixing is not magic yes we can do alot of stuff but is it good at the end i dont think so . Which is better tuned vocal to the ... because its unusable in first place or very good performed one of course the second one. When there was electronic music some games ago to work with a lot of us was using autotamed filters and bunch of other stuff but if u think at the end of the day its music made in a daw so if there must be added something why i must add it ? If the person that produce the track want to add something he can do it him self.
If u want to produce music do it in music production in general there are stages that must be separate and some thing that must be done there to get a good result at the end. First part is to get the idea done dont think of sound dont think of mixing just put something and made the idea from start to finish and arrange it the best way u can. Second part is lets see if something can be better why i have spikes in the drums why my bass jump in the lows 10 db maybe i must use something different did my sints are in good corelations or the corelations meter go from +1 to -1 , can i record My vocals better or something else. 3 part is mix prep if something must be edited now is the time if drums are not on the click if vocals must be tuned after all efford to record them in the best possible way. 4 is mixing what is done is done no more do i need to add something more just audio tracks in the project no more sints no more midi. and 5 mastering which is not miracle if something can be fix in the mix do it there .
This is the best way to go no matter did u made music for and u self or there will be 120 people working on the project.

[Mister Fox]

Just a short follow-up.

I might join in on the general conversation, but I'm also trying to juggle a lot of things behind the scenes. This is once more a bigger topic, and I will keep an eye on this.

I can tell you what happens:
The H910 Dual Hamonizer widens the chorusvocal (like in many other productions int the last 50 years).
The "shimmerverb" reverberates the delays of the "cy" of "prophecy" with modulation and +12ct pitchshifting like in many other production to jump the vocals into the chorus. It's not my ambition to fool you. I think it's all about learning. I hope you get it.

Oh I do get it. I mostly use Eventide's H3000 (easier to use than Eventide's UltraChannel "Micro Pitch Shift"), Soundtoys Little AlterBoy, or Kilohearts Pitch Shifter. Although I do stay within the 6ct to 9ct range.

The thing is... you started an appeal to the decision to mark your entry as "tagged disqualified". And I am inclined to remove that tag. In fact, the Song Provider is also already informed of that "limbo" decision. However -- I also kindly asked you to please send me a "clean" version of your vocals (with effects), and screenshots that show your settings. I really want to see what is going on.

This also ties in the follow-up topic on modulation-based and time-based audio tools that have pitch shifters built in, and "how far" should things go. I really want to hear a clean version, to understand why I hear something creep in, that sounds like an added third.

Please send me a PM with that material, and I'll get this sorted out ASAP.

...

Also my interpretation of the 'Your submission is final' rule is that once the deadline closed then that's it, your download link cannot be altered, however it seems this is not the case? Could this rule be explained to me as well please? Would it not be more efficient to download all links after the deadline and then disqualify any latecomers/re-uploaders?

When submitting university assignments online your final submission before the deadline is the one that gets marked. Should it not be the same?

...

There is nothing to "interpret" here. The Mix(ing) Challenge is not an University Assignment, it is (at it's heart) a competition, simulating a client-to-business scenario. You can't just ask your client to "please wait until ABC". Once it has been uploaded and posted, it has been submitted. Other competitions work the same way.


The Rule Book for the Mix(ing) Challenge is unambiguous in this respect.


TL;DR Rules.txt, 9th paragraph (2nd from bottom), as bundled with the Multi-Track Mix Pack for MC099

Your submission is final. No edits / re-uploads allowed, unless you have been selected for Mix Round 2. Please check that everything is in proper order prior to uploading and posting on the forum

TL;DR Rules in the online Rule Book, post #003, bullet point #10 (2nd from bottom)

TL;DR - PARTICIPATION RULES:

• ---
• Your submission is final. No edits / re-uploads allowed, unless you have been selected for Mix Round 2. Please check that everything is in proper order prior to uploading and posting on the forum
• ...

And finally, the Rule Book in long form, post #006, sub-section "Upload and Submission Guidelines", bullet point #04

RULES FOR PARTICIPANTS OF THE MIX CHALLENGE:


Upload and Submission Guidelines

• ...
• You are only allowed to submit one entry per competition. Please do not upload "several revisions" or "premasters" (see "Mixing and Editing Guidelines" above). Your entry is final - no re-submissions with changes allowed unless you're selected for Mix Round 2 (see FAQ)
• ...

By joining the Mix Challenge, you agreed to adhere to these given Rules and Guidelines.



I understand your frustration, I am sorry.
Please take this as a learning experience and try again with MC100 in October.




Any follow-up to this topic (appealing against decisions) will now be moved to a different forum section without any further commentary. Thank you for understanding.

[elements]

If u ask me its very simple if i have 16 tracks to mix i mix 16 tracks. My goal is they to sound better then the moment i open them in the project if that is done jobe done. This days most people forgot that mixing is not magic yes we can do alot of stuff but is it good at the end i dont think so . If the person that produce the track want to add something he can do it him self.

I think you’re right. I know I am somewhat guilty of overdoing these things as I enjoy playing around with things and then I hear something or see a picture and attempt to bend things that way a little. But, in the end you’re right. It’s about mixing things not changing the list of ingredients because it doesn’t fit in with our own idea of how a song should be created. It really should be about respecting the creator of the work and what choices they have made and the various parts that have been created. I hope that I can improve on that aspect more as I go along.

[Christoph_K]

I insist on being double disqualified because of also making an organ out of a xylophone

Jokes aside, I am not sure what to make of all this. To rule out sample replacement/enhancement is one thing. To allow autotune and/or melodyne or maybe vocalign is another thing. Adding harmonies with a plugin, which definitely will alter the harmonic structure of the song, surely belongs more to production than to mixing IMO. But adding a pitched up vocal to the reverb only is a common mixing technique. Adding one an octave below (and tucking that in to get a certain vibe and feel) might have crossed a certain line (which I haven't been aware of). But sometimes you do that on guitars to get more punch and weight. So why not on vocals? And what about my "organ" then? Isn't "adding" another instrument by applying (maybe even advanced) mixing techniques far beyond the rules following the logic? Lines are already getting pretty blurry there, right?

For me - generally speaking - mixing is making a song sound as great as you can, whatever it takes. A mix is an opinion, a perspective. You can agree or disagree.

That's my little rant. Whatever. Over and - for sure - out

[scottfitz]

the rules have to be there because without them, imagine what the results would be. However much as in many areas of life if you zoom right in to the boundary points and have to switch the rule on in one pixel and off at a neighbouring pixel we inevitably feel like there is some wrongdoing

[elements]

I insist on being double disqualified because of also making an organ out of a xylophone

Jokes aside, I am not sure what to make of all this. To rule out sample replacement/enhancement is one thing. To allow autotune and/or melodyne or maybe vocalign is another thing. Adding harmonies with a plugin, which definitely will alter the harmonic structure of the song, surely belongs more to production than to mixing IMO. But adding a pitched up vocal to the reverb only is a common mixing technique. Adding one an octave below (and tucking that in to get a certain vibe and feel) might have crossed a certain line (which I haven't been aware of). But sometimes you do that on guitars to get more punch and weight. So why not on vocals? And what about my "organ" then? Isn't "adding" another instrument by applying (maybe even advanced) mixing techniques far beyond the rules following the logic? Lines are already getting pretty blurry there, right?

For me - generally speaking - mixing is making a song sound as great as you can, whatever it takes. A mix is an opinion, a perspective. You can agree or disagree.

That's my little rant. Whatever. Over and - for sure - out

Organs out of Marimbas. I quite liked that idea.

[elements]

I understand the rules and playing by them for this kind of situation. It wouldn’t make any sense if you didn’t have some kind of defined environment to play in. I don’t think anybody needs to “interpret” them too much as they are pretty straight forward. I had a question about tuning vocals for the previous challenge and found the answer in the rule books easily and clearly. The difficulty is when deciding what would be considered too much or what is appropriate from the perspective of the client. I guess if we don’t get too precious with the outcome we could just relax and just enjoy the playtime I would think that in the end that this is really what the whole process is about - time on a mix, whether you self regulate that time or just play with it for the full 21 days. Really in the end, I think there might be more important things in life to be stressing over.

[cpsmusic]

I think one of the difficulties we face is that some clients, especially those who are less experienced, tend to lean on the mixer more in terms of adding interest to the production. If anyone reads the Sound On Sound Mix Rescues you'll see what I mean. And on top of this there's a whole range of software available that can add doubles, harmonies, etc. in real-time so the idea of "adding something" is pretty grey now. For example, if I add a pitch-shifted delay throw am I adding something or extending what's already there?

Cheers!