MIX CHALLENGE - MC103 April 2025 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

[elements]

Hey and Moin,

catchy song that stays in your head!
With the mix notes in my head (vibey like Happy etc) I set up the session and literally let the song guide me. It inspired me to do a lot of things different than usual. I started the mix with everything open and just hit play. I never do that... until now I mixed a good portion with only a little tape (UAD Ampex) on the mixbus, usually I have most of my chain set up from the get go. This results in only a 2500 on 1.5:1, which is even dialed back to 50% Mix, on the Mixbus. Usually there's an additional DynOne and maybe Weiss. But the funkiest thing is, there is no limiter... I actually think there isn't one in the whole session. Yes, in 2025

So while I'm balancing and getting a feel for the song, Falco and Bilderbuch where constantly popping into my head (I actually referenced neither). I don't know why, but that set my goal to land between my idea of those two. In my mind the Falco part is the not-so-subtle and bright reverb vibe with proper action drum room. Drum room is the original drum room nuked with a Distressor (it's actually on 20:1 not Nuke). I tried to enhance it with some other fancy reverbs, but it just worked best on its own.
The Bilderbuch part is more the spectral shape and attitude. Heavy and crisp. The vocal recording kind of dictates a little crispness. There's an Sonnox Surpresser on it, but that can only do so much. The body of the lead vocal is maintained by a parallel all-buttons-in UAD 1176E. Peaks are generally shaped and conrolled by saturation. Decapitator, KClip, MH Character, UAD Ampex... things like that. Snare 2 for instance is driven heavily into an API Vision Channel to get rid of the "plastic" edge.

While mixing I imagined the lead vocalist, racing in his cabrio towards his girl, singing this song and getting maybe a little careless... But who cares, he's in love and hyped.

Mixed in Reaper on Audeze LCD-X, EQed on my ADI-2 Pro FS.

https://icedrive.net/s/G4ujDN8CVN9BG5abX815Gb89taGi

Hi Mork,
I liked what you did with this mix, particularly the bass. Did you do much with it? I found the area around the 100-200 Hz range a bit challenging and was attempting to get it lighter. I think you did a good job at getting the balance right overall especially in the guitar parts at the end.

[Mork]

Hey @elements,

thank you for your kind words!
Just had to take a look at the session, and yep, there's some stuff going on. I ended up just using the DI. For the DI track itself I used an Ampeg SVT3 Pro (used the graphic eq on that to cut 150, 300 and some 600), which is followed by an UAD LA-2A Gray that is doing some heavy lifting (up to 7dB GR). From there I send it to a neck track. That's a phase linear high pass (Pro Q3) at 580, hammered by TrackComp in DMG mode (3:1, 2.4ms attack, 270ms release, about 10dB GR) followed by MH Character in SoftSat on it with almost maxed out drive, to get some hair. This track is actually balanced pretty high and, sorry if this sounds dumb, makes the strings of the bass guitar tickle inside my throat.
But still the bass was a bit all over, so I summed these two tracks. I dynamically cut 113 Hz with a Pro Q3, because it kept bugging me. Now there was lack of a little oomph. I used LTL ChopShop in LowRider mode to add a little weight below 150. For a bit more control and glue of the two tracks I followed with an LA-3A which is doing 1-2dB GR. Still not happy with the low end, so I added Pro-MB with only one band below 280, which smoothes out some notes that stick out (1-2dB GR). Still not quite there, so I parallel send the whole bass bus into an all-buttons-in 1176E for some consistent fatness. It's balanced very low.
That's it
Seems like a lot, but most of the stuff is doing a specialized job.

[elements]

Thanks for the detail @Mork . Greatly appreciated.

I understand why you didn’t put all of that detail in your initial post. I noticed you also picked that 100Hz area as an issue. That took me some time to find a setting I could at least live with, but I obviously didn’t go far enough judging from what you went through to carve a sound out of it.

For me what helped was dealing with things an octave down around 50Hz. By reducing the impact here it appeared to really help the rest of the sound. I spent so much time on the first note of the first verse trying to get that to feel right. It was the one point where the bass issue for me was really noticeable, after that it felt like it settled down a bit more in the mix.

[ggibson1988]

Thank you for the heads up @scottfitz
This was bounced with my reference track still active in my reference plugin.
I have disabled sharing of the file due to this
Kind of disheartening to keep making rookie mistakes in my 3rd season in this competition. I guess that's what happens when you wait until the last hour to finish your projects.

For S & G's Here is what should have been....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wPg5vp ... share_link

Thank you @Strange for providing this fun song & @Mr Fox for keeping this thing going and putting up with us not following the rules.

My mood / inspiration was etched into my mind reading the provider notes. Who doesn't love "Happy"?

After rough balance and truly listening to this song, hit my first derailment... that bridge, oh my that bridge...
So dark yet the message is still so positive. As if the door is a barricade, but a temporary one. So I leaned into the darkness only to be pulled out by the whistle.


My Mix:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gK46DK ... sp=sharing

The technicals

Mixed ITB using Pro Tools, Beyerdynamic DT990 PRO Headphones and Sonorworks Reference ID correction.

All Drums processed with EQ / Compression using Pro-Q3 and SSL Channel Strip

Kick & Snare sent for parallel compression using dbx 160
Snare sent for additional parallel processing using lockless for added sizzle
All drums sent for parallel compression using distressed.

Used both bass tracks with different EQ curves. DI was left clean and just used as weight. LA2A in limiting mode on both of these tracks.
Bass Bus used multi band compression and LA2A.

All Guitars, Multi band compression, LA3A, and Helios Preamp.

Lead Vox, Slight pitch correction, Neve 1073 Pre, 1176 and LA2A.
Sent to Vocal Chorus with automated send level. Also sent to slap delay and 1/8 note delay and plate verb.

Backing Vocals, not much processing. Sent to chorus, delay, and plate verb.

All Group busses, ATR-102 and VMR for console / tape emulation.

Mix bus, ATR-102 and VMR for console / tape. BX Digital V3 for stereo width and Pultec EQ. No compressor was used on the mix bus.

Master fader only included SSL Meter, Mastering the Mix Reference, ISOL8 to easily convert to mono (Rough mix is always in Mono) and Sonarworks.

I regret to inform you that you have uploaded the wrong track by mistake. I'm not sure if there is any chance to now submit the one you intended it to be, I suspect the rules say not. But you may want to still post the one you intended it to be for feedback purposes

[ggibson1988]

I truly did mean every word I said, just got complacent on my last bounce after making a few changes at the last minute. And yes, when i found out what i did...

quote=Strange post_id=19424 time=1745339604 user_id=2257]
Hello dear participating,

thank you very much, I am very happy that so many people felt like mixing my music and I listened to everyone, especially the one from ggibson1988 .
Seriously, there are some great mixes in there and I definitely haven't found the one that stands out from all the others yet, I still have some listening work to do.

But I have noticed a few things that I have heard in many mixes:
- the hi-hat is an important part of the groove, this led many to overemphasize it a lot. In a lot of the mixes, I would do a strong EQ cut in the 3-4 kHz range to balance that out.
- Many tried to emphasize the sub-bass range, which alone took away the punch and groove of the bass range, and some reinforced this with inappropriate compressor settings.
- According to your information, about half of the mixes were mainly mixed with headphones. And although one of my favorite mixes was created with headphones, this fact seems to lead to exaggerating the reverb parts.
- Some of the mix bus compressors seem to have been a little heavy handed. Especially at the beginning, this leads to the energy decreasing after the rise and the beginning of the first verse seems too weak.

By the way, I created a spectral curve of “happy” with TonalBalanceControl from izotope and compared it with my and your mixes. The curve confirms the 3-4kHz cut and the unnecessary sub-bass.

Overall, I've heard many very balanced, natural and groovy mixes, but it's the negative things that tend to stand out first. If you want to learn from this, you can check your mix for the aforementioned anomalies now, regardless of my individual feedback. If you like and if it helps... Unfortunately, I only listen with my ears and in my room. It's a bit too small, by the way, but reasonably well acoustically treated, equipped with two KSD digital C8s, two small avantone cubes and an Audeze LCD-XC, you can see it in the Songprovider photo. So... Now I have to continue listening.

I would be delighted if you could use the forum to give each other feedback. I'm also open to questions. Otherwise I'll get back to you after MisterFox has given the official technical okay.

Greetings
Peter
[/quote]

[Strange]

I truly did mean every word I said, just got complacent on my last bounce after making a few changes at the last minute. And yes, when i found out what i did...

Hi ggibson1988,

Thanks for sharing the right mix with us and thanks for the funny mistake that I'm sure could have happened to any of us, definitely me.
Even though you are probably participating outside of the judging, I'm glad to hear your work.

Best regards

[Mastemoth]

- According to your information, about half of the mixes were mainly mixed with headphones. And although one of my favorite mixes was created with headphones, this fact seems to lead to exaggerating the reverb parts.

I found this interesting. During the pandemic I had to start to learn mixing on headphones because I have my studio literally in another country (50 minute commute). In almost every instance I did the opposite of exaggerating the reverb when I listened back in speakers. It was always too dry. I wonder why that is.

[Strange]

- According to your information, about half of the mixes were mainly mixed with headphones. And although one of my favorite mixes was created with headphones, this fact seems to lead to exaggerating the reverb parts.

I found this interesting. During the pandemic I had to start to learn mixing on headphones because I have my studio literally in another country (50 minute commute). In almost every instance I did the opposite of exaggerating the reverb when I listened back in speakers. It was always too dry. I wonder why that is.

Hi Mastemoth,

yes, that's what they say. Maybe the word “exaggerated” is wrong, I mean more “inappropriate”. The spatiality of the mixes I'm referring to doesn't seem coherent to me. I counted again, that's about 20 out of 30 headphone mixes (according to the participants). I didn't notice it to the same extent with loudspeaker mixes. I can't explain why this is the case, but I believe that spatiality is a problem with headphones. Or my ears :-), who knows.

Best regards

[juhu]

The spatiality of the mixes I'm referring to doesn't seem coherent to me. I counted again, that's about 20 out of 30 headphone mixes (according to the participants). I didn't notice it to the same extent with loudspeaker mixes. I can't explain why this is the case, but I believe that spatiality is a problem with headphones.

I believe this has to do with the fact that on headphones it is inherently difficult, if not impossible, to judge the apparent depth-distance relationships across instruments along the Z-axis (going from the listener towards and through the phantom center when using stereo speakers). On headphones, the drivers are placed at 180 degrees opposite to each other and therefore the perceived Z-axis that exists on speakers cancels out completely on headphones, leaving no reliable depth cues. Normally, when on speakers, adding more reverb to an instrument tends to "push" it further away from the listener in terms of depth-wise perception and that's an important part of building instrument depth relationships in a mix, usually done by setting slightly different effect bus send amounts across instruments. But, do this on headphones and you will have no clue how depth perception will actually appear on speakers later on At least, such is my personal experience with mixing on headphones, so I stopped even trying.

[Drannob]

The spatiality of the mixes I'm referring to doesn't seem coherent to me. I counted again, that's about 20 out of 30 headphone mixes (according to the participants). I didn't notice it to the same extent with loudspeaker mixes. I can't explain why this is the case, but I believe that spatiality is a problem with headphones.

I believe this has to do with the fact that on headphones it is inherently difficult, if not impossible, to judge the apparent depth-distance relationships across instruments along the Z-axis (going from the listener towards and through the phantom center when using stereo speakers). On headphones, the drivers are placed at 180 degrees opposite to each other and therefore the perceived Z-axis that exists on speakers cancels out completely on headphones, leaving no reliable depth cues. Normally, when on speakers, adding more reverb to an instrument tends to "push" it further away from the listener in terms of depth-wise perception and that's an important part of building instrument depth relationships in a mix, usually done by setting slightly different effect bus send amounts across instruments. But, do this on headphones and you will have no clue how depth perception will actually appear on speakers later on At least, such is my personal experience with mixing on headphones, so I stopped even trying.

If I understood correctly (because my english sucks ), the problems you are talking about can be solved with a crossfeed plugin. It's true that without this it's complicated to have a correct stereo image and it becomes complicated to place the elements in space. I've only been mixing with headphones for years and I don't feel like I'm making big mistakes on my instrument placements in space and when I check on the speakers or in the car, I don't have any surprises. But maybe I'm completely wrong and in this case I'll be happy to learn it to try to improve this point.

In any case, it's an interesting topic. And we also have to consider that more and more people are listening with in-ear/headphones.