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Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

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Pussylover
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This is for mixing contest providers

Post by Pussylover » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:31 pm

Las time when I was participating on M057 I almost killed myself. I have been editing that "don't leave don't leave don't leave" and it was annoying.
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White Punk OD
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Re: This is for mixing contest providers

Post by White Punk OD » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:04 pm

LOL, you'll get clients that prepare mixtracks the way you like, when you are a well-sought, established engineer in the scene.
once in a while you may get them.
^_^

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Mister Fox
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Re: This is for mixing contest providers

Post by Mister Fox » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:57 pm

I'm trying to understand the issue here?

The mix packages are usually well prepared and labeled. Is there something I'm missing?

White Punk OD
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Re: This is for mixing contest providers

Post by White Punk OD » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:19 am

to complain about a free ride that has bumps, I would never recommend.

vocal tuning was not complete, some contestants tuned well, some poorly, some not at all like me.
furthermore, tracks were not numbered.
but this altogeher cannot diminish my thankfulness to the mixtrack provider.

gossip is ephemeral, so yeah, one may say this or that, not a big deal...
rocknroll can be a harsh playground. :grudge: :hihi:

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Mister Fox
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

Post by Mister Fox » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:54 am

So it is basically a complaint about convenience.
Mix Packages should be ideally provided completely tuned, fully labeled, sorted, clean cut, etc. Even more than they already are.

But then the question remains: where is the challenge?
And if the tracks are numbered already, chances are that you might not use the track numbering at all, or don't like the order since your workflow is different, etc.


The mix packages so far (57 months of games) have all been well labeled and mostly cleaned up (with the occasional exception). So I'm not getting the stab with the posted video. We're not handling albums, but individual tracks. The "album setup workflow" is completely irrelevant. Also - the individual channels are properly labeled to 99,5% of the time. This is why there is such an extensive Integrity Check happening prior to any uploaded game - which covers even strangely named tracks.


Regarding the "Vocal Tuning" - funny that this particular video was posted.
Glenn Fricker (of Spectre Sound Studios) hates vocal tuning with absolute passion, and makes that very clear in a lot of his Youtube videos. Even smashed up an Antares ATR Rack device with a sledgehammer.



I will fuse this thread with the "Gossip Thread" now, as I see this as a general feedback/criticism.

Chriswilson83
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

Post by Chriswilson83 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:42 pm

Mister Fox wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:54 am
So it is basically a complaint about convenience.
Mix Packages should be ideally provided completely tuned, fully labeled, sorted, clean cut, etc. Even more than they already are.

But then the question remains: where is the challenge?
And if the tracks are numbered already, chances are that you might not use the track numbering at all, or don't like the order since your workflow is different, etc.
Exactly. When I sent Ghost Limb (MC56) for the challenge I deliberately took EVERYTHING off it, what you got was what came out of that desk (which also had no processing or eq whatsoever). The only reason I provided tuned and untuned vocals was due to a suggestion. Some huffed about that, that's the challenge though isn't it? I don't want to hear someone just tweak my mix, I want something new.

I see the other side too with cilents sending you premixed stems, it can be good but the worst are if you get that + their own stereo mix as a reference. A many few of those just want you to mix it again like theirs. One such time was so restrictive I literally added a fraction of gain their mix as it was quiet, resampled it and sent it back. They thought it was the best thing ever and to date still don't know.

White Punk OD
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

Post by White Punk OD » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:05 pm

Mister Fox wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:54 am

But then the question remains: where is the challenge?
And if the tracks are numbered already, chances are that you might not use the track numbering at all, or don't like the order since your workflow is different, etc.
.....
I will fuse this thread with the "Gossip Thread" now, as I see this as a general feedback/criticism.
I agree, but I would also add that the meta-challenge to those who want to progress, is also letting go of any little issues and formalities, and focus on the main purpose, choose whether the episode makes sense, and in case of joining, take the challenge as fully as possible.

if ends don't meet, and issues can't be consented, also in real business, one can decline peacefully.

I thought this video was quite funny, but probably not after listening the same guy another five times. it's just rock'n'roll. a business with its own culture(s).
but we can't generalize. if a comrade thinks this way, welcome to me, but put your money where your mouth is. take it or leave it.
wasting time when the project is free and just virtual, is my own risk. I can't blame it on the provided tracks. it's just an educational game.

about the numbering I think, it makes sense to provide track names that auto-sort correctly, when the project is exceeding ~30 tracks.
workflow this or that, it is required to understand the thinking of those who recorded that stuff. or if they forgot about comprehensive planning, that's good to know also, and charge for creating some order.
If I want the gig, I must adapt my workflow to the particularities of the project, and if it does not look feasible, I can decline and perhaps recommend another engineer who is known to deal with such projects.

about the "cultures", recently again it was an amazing experience, to look at portfolios.
I talk about mastering, where scenes and businesses come together, the last and stylish polish before submitting to distribution.
this time, i looked at Brian Lucey. he has many many many releases. and much of it is on spotify. so what I found is, I love that stuff altogether, and most of it has a common culture of sounds. they share some vision, and therefor they ask Brian to do the gig. if they can afford a top guy at all. others have a different vision, and go to a different engineer because his portfolio is fitting their taste better.
so I believe that mastering engineers can be a brilliant source of referencing, as chances are good that statistics will help you with pre-selection of certain styles that you want to check out. and, you can trust it is a no-nonsense guy, and not some odd one-hit-wonder. (the latter you can't reference anyway, you'd have to create it on your own.)

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Mister Fox
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

Post by Mister Fox » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:26 pm

Apologies - but workflow is something that you should learn for yourself.

If you get a mix package with labeled tracks, it is your job to set up the project the way you usually mix. If it's a small project, I'm not even using folders. If it's a bigger one, then I do just that. Sometimes push up the vocals and then go down to guitars and bass, and finally drums. Sometimes the other way around.

The video depicted "work routines" if you record a whole band, and several tracks at that. Or if you have to mix a whole album from somebody else (something you didn't record yourself). This workflow is a good example if we talk tracks that are always the same throughout. But if you work with a pop producer, then each track has a completely different setup.


I still seem to miss the big picture here (aside from other comments that were flung around recently - a lot of which I still don't understand the point of criticism):

Both the song provider and me as host put a lot of effort into preparing projects. In fact, I even still tell people how to improve on that (previous song providers can confirm this). But apparently, it's still not enough...

White Punk OD
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

Post by White Punk OD » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:09 pm

for me, the big picture is not to bother at all.
once I was admin in a fan forum, there were fan wars, and "my" artist preferred very much the most liberal way of handling matters.
no policing, no bickering about what's right or wrong, just warn people who attack and do not want to stay peaceful, and avoiding law suits.

I fully support your last sentences, but no one can tell people what they have to believe.
so I just hope that a couple of guys who think otherwise, will not make you too sad.
80 contestants and a movie music maker, this is quite a beautiful achievement.


----
when a project has numbers but I disagree the setup, it may help to put A,B, C,.. in front of the numbers, according to the concept where I want to move the groups. one group is one letter. within the groups, often numbers make sense, or i can drag the track ad hoc a couple of positions up or down.
for me it has nothing to do with previous workflow on a physical console, where the hands have mechanically learned to catch the vocal or guitar stuff.
everything now can change completely in a very short time.
for me, the best sub-forum title in an audio forum was "whatever works". :smile:
at those times, the big cats were there and had their fun. (pensado, brauer...)

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Mister Fox
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

Post by Mister Fox » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:15 am

The following questions have been brought up in Mix Challenge #058 - this is a continuation:
viewtopic.php?p=6241#p6241


White Punk OD wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:05 pm
Thinking loud, perhaps commenting on at least 5 mixes might become mandatory for a contestant to win a plugin,
together with cutting 5 days from the mixing deadline, and adding that as a dedicated time slot for commenting.
In short, mix faster, communicate more.
I can think about the "mandatory to give feedback" part, but changes to the timeframes might not happen anytime soon.


White Punk OD wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:05 pm
But definitely I want to thank all song/mixtrack providers, and I would like to see them rewarded also. They should be granted to grab the first plugin, what do you think? :)
I've written about this a couple of times. In here even.

While participants only get access to a mix and have to make the best out of what has been given to them, the Song Providers get a different deal.

They get access to a step-by-step walkthrough how to prepare the content and a thorough file checkup (the "Integrity Check" I'm doing per mix package, not everyone knows how to prepare them properly), in certain cases feedback to a production (for a possible re-render of material with better samples/synths - happened a couple of times in the last 59 Mixing Challenges) and also free promotion through the homepage (also see the Song Provider list). In certain cases, I even have to setup the mix package completely from scratch. And/or have to nudge people several times mid-"Integrity Check" as to what is going on, and why I'm in limbo. Which results in unpaid extra work, and admittedly also in unnecessary extra stress (due to lack of a suitable song pool buffer)-

Giving a "free license" just for being a Song Provider with this amount of pre-setup, feels to me like handing out participation medals.


Let us also not forget that the "Client" is getting a lot of free mixes on top, and there is no attendance fee.
The only investment - is time.


While this would indeed be an incentive to maybe reach out with material, I don't think this would be fair to all participants. But I'm speaking from the viewpoint of the host (the staff), only the song providers so far can give feedback on the treatment/quality of the handling.

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