MIX CHALLENGE - MC070 October 2020 - Winners announced

[diegoneryproducoes]

Hi! I'm brazilian! It is the first time that I put my mix on this site. I am very happy with the opportunity. Hope you like it! I hope you comment on my learning. Hugs!!! My Mix:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tG1Eqw ... sp=sharing

I use the Reaper. I had to tune the vocals. I didn't use all the tracks that were delivered. I ignored reverb tracks. I mixed only with volumes to achieve a beautiful and expressive tone. The vocal needed to cut the mix. So I put distortion on it. In the battery uni with some samplers for greater presence. And I used parallel compression for the whole song to have more presence and RMS for good rock.

[ProgressiveHoschi]

Hi Mr. Fox,

I was disqualified because the song is not in 24Bit. CoolEditPro cannot create files that are larger than 44/16. That's why I'm in Audition to save the song on 48/24. Why is there 16 bit now? No plan. I sealed the title itself on -1DB in cool with the limiter. Again, I don't understand why the volume is higher now. I don't understand about the Lufs, I don't have a plan for that. The mixdown itself is without compression or other plugins. I measured with the Audition onboard tool. Then I saw that I was around -16 and thought it was OK. I couldn't have changed that because of a lack of knowledge.
Still, sad when you spend tens of hours on a title and then get disqualified. I can understand that, rules are rules. I won't take part again though.

Regards,

Hoschi

[Mister Fox]

Now Cool Edit Pro is a name I haven't heard/read in quite a while. Then again, it is Adobe Audition now...

I was disqualified because the song is not in 24Bit. CoolEditPro cannot create files that are larger than 44/16. That's why I'm in Audition to save the song on 48/24. Why is there 16 bit now? No plan.

Can be easily explained:
If you worked with Cool Edit Pro, and that engine is locked to 44/16 - even on Import already (meaning, it would have converted the original 48kHz material and also introduced bitrate truncation noises/glitches/overtones), after that just rendering in 44/16, then importing it in Adobe Audition and exporting it once more as 48/24 - doesn't add anything. You are only filling up the bits with 0's. So even if your host shows 48/24 as file format, analysis tools will show the clear offset - in this case: 16bit.

If you would have added an exciter (as example), basically adding more signal processing in some shape or form, then the bits would have been filled with new material, resulting in 24bit.

I sealed the title itself on -1DB in cool with the limiter. Again, I don't understand why the volume is higher now. I don't understand about the Lufs, I don't have a plan for that. The mixdown itself is without compression or other plugins. I measured with the Audition onboard tool. Then I saw that I was around -16 and thought it was OK. I couldn't have changed that because of a lack of knowledge.

My main question would be: "what" -16 are we talking about?

Just to be sure, I've ran your mix through Klanghelm's VUMT2 with the RMS mode and AES-17 +3dB Compensation enabled (the same setup like a K-System meter, only that there is no 0-point reference and a relative meter scale, but actually an absolute meter scale). Both Wavelab's realtime RMS meter and VUMT show me an average signal strength of -12 dB RMS realtime avg (and -8dB RMS realtime max). An LUFS meter (like Youlean Loudness Meter 2) reads lower due to the different measurement techniques and ballistics.

Your maximum signal strength overshot can also be easily explained: difference dBFS max (Decibel Digital Full Scale) vs dBTP max (Decibel True Peak). True Peak is used for measuring possible Intersample Overs, something a DAC would pick up and maybe even stumble from, but not necessarily our ears. In this case, your dBFS value was indeed -1,0 dBFS (actually 0,9966 dBFS, which some tools just "round up"), while the dBTP value was -0,7098 dBTP. Your safety limiter probably can't handle up Inter Sample Peaks.

Since there are a plethora of signal measurement tools out there, all with their own twists and "allowed offsets / tolerances", I've decided years ago already to stick with LUFS and dBTP for the final mixdown for the Mix(ing) Challenge - since this is a more standardized mechanic with less tolerances (also see this post here on the forum). As to how your track suddenly got louder - this is something I can't explain - maybe it has to do with converting 44kHz to 48kHz (which shouldn't happen), or some other underlying thing with Adobe Audition.

Still, sad when you spend tens of hours on a title and then get disqualified. I can understand that, rules are rules. I won't take part again though.

A real pity in my opinion, as I consider this a learning experience. I've been there several times myself - even after hours of work, my edits have been rejected because of similar things like "Not within loudness specs". This can be demoralizing, true. But this is also why the Mix(ing) Challenge simulates this scenario - to get you prepared for this kind of stuff in the future (especially important in the broadcast realm these days!).

I wouldn't just give up if I were you - there is always new stuff to learn. A new Mix(ing) Challenge coming up in 4 days - it might not be your genre of choice, but these games are great for gathering experience.

[White Punk OD]

@ProgressiveHoschi
sorry to hear about your situation, i can only say there are free DAWs that will enable you to fulfill the specs, I am using one of these, it is Tracktion7, but there is a newer version WaveForm 11. You can also find a bunch of free plugins, that work with these, please beware mixing up 32bit software vs. 64bit when installing plugins. I use ancient Cool Edit only for very special tasks, never for mixing or delivering.

[Dodgingrain]

Still, sad when you spend tens of hours on a title and then get disqualified. I can understand that, rules are rules. I won't take part again though.

Regards,
Hoschi

Don't quit, hang in there, I get burned by the "spec's" more than I'd like as I have some mastering training and I would always give a client a pre-mastered version to evaluate so they can compare it against their favorite professional songs. I have to change how I mix specifically for the rules of these contests.
If you need a free DAW maybe try Cakewalk (Sonar). I've never tried it but I would think it should give you all the tools you need. As far as plugins I wouldn't worry to much about it as most DAWs have that covered and unless you're ears are already good from a couple years or more of mixing regularly it won't matter that much. 3rd party plugins are about the last 10% of a mix and if you get the other 90% right you'll beat most of the mixes here anyway, lol.
I am totally amazed you attempted to mix in cool edit pro, that had to be a ton of work and a pain from a workflow standpoint.

[ProgressiveHoschi]

Thank you everyone for the kind words. I switched to Reaper last week. I continue to use CoolEdit to edit the single tracks. I just mix and master for fun, but I learn quickly and if I get that with the Lufs, I might do it again. Until then, I wish everyone the best.

Regards

Hoschi

[Mister Fox]

If Cool Edit is locked to 44/16, then editing in it might not be such a good idea, as you introduce bitrate truncation for 24bit files. That means that you will get - best case scenario - only slight noise, but most of the time - worst case scenario - it is harsh conversion noise and excessive harmonic overtones that drastically change the sound.

Please consider picking up an audio editor that can handle 24bit. Cockos Reaper as main audio host is already a good start, and more than affordable.

[White Punk OD]

(FYI my cool edit can do 192k/32 but has a horrible sample rate conversion. great denoiser when you know how to set it up. got EZCD for state-of-the-art SRC, does a lot of other stuff too.)

[m_tree]

I switched to Reaper last week.

Congrats! Despite it's not only very affordable, in my opinion also one of the best DAWs in terms of workflow.

And there is a very useful and free extension with an offline loudness-analysis (EBU-R128):
https://www.sws-extension.org/

For online loudness-analysis, I can recommend this free VST-plugin:
https://www.meldaproduction.com/MLoudnessAnalyzer

I get the same results with both. :-)

[ProgressiveHoschi]

Audition has a LoudnessMeter too, i can see how the lufs are. But i don`t know how to change the result.

@MR. Fox
the Editor can handle 48000Hz/32bit float
but save the files only in 44100/16 Bit
I use this tool since 1996.
Hard to go other ways, u know?!

If i render the mix in Reaper than the song will be at 48000/24Bit.

here u can hear and check my first song i was mixing with Reaper:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1onVKQI ... sp=sharing

Normaly the format must hit the specs here. Not the DB. The song is mastered. And with the Lufs.....idk

I mix and master with my ears and feeling. Maybe is not the right way but for my fun its ok.

By the way, i`ll learn the other stuff too, but needs time.

Thx all.