Mix Challenge

Hey sorry, i am new to these... always used SoundCloud for SWC but now i dont have an account there. I am going to look into it.

sorry again, now it should work. I updated the link in the original post. thanks for letting me know.

I can confirm the link working - and we finally have our first icebreaker.

However - and to kick off the new "more interaction/feedback" method... this isn't Drum and Bass. Your entry would have worked for SWC034 / June (which was Big Beat), but you're sadly a bit off with the premise - as in: "what the virtual clients are looking for".

Your production is more reaching towards "Electronic" with an interesting Soundtrack feeling. While this might work in the grander scheme of things, the Drum and Bass tracks in the examples have all been 160bpm and higher. Your track is around 130bpm. Maybe take another listen at the provided Techstep / Hardstep and Neurofunk examples in the third post.

You already have the right idea in terms of sound design - but you're dipping your toe into the wrong genre.



Oh and... I know the northern hemisphere is currently hit with an insane heatwave, however...
including today, 4 days left to submit your production.

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 21, 2020 02:41 CEST

However - and to kick off the new "more interaction/feedback" method... this isn't Drum and Bass. Your entry would have worked for SWC034 / June (which was Big Beat), but you're sadly a bit off with the premise - as in: "what the virtual clients are looking for".

I'm quite sure that clients usually do not know what they actually want and many time they have wrong idea about their ideas . Yey I know that genre is Drum and Bass but as example for me, most of time is really hard to understand those small difference especially in electronic dance music. Even if I listen to all examples over and over most of time the difference is small (like different tempo, bass instrument) and still overall composition is very similar (very simple and repetitive ). For me more important is the feel and if it fits the scene overall. Making copy of style is .....boring. I think there are too many genres and subgenres that it almost doesn't have sense any more. For me there is only good or bad music.

In previous round I tried to make the style as much as close to choosen style and response was that is sound like tradional old school rap but at the same time they pointed - but there is nothing new and nothing interesting here to listen so it means it is boring. And I agree. So I too will go for more experimnetal one. I do not know how much I will be able to fit the style choosen but it is my way and aproach to music. Hope will able to finish it.

In regards of J I L L I A M track, I think it fits the image of racing game and I like it but I have suggestion to remove all that crazy distortion. It is really breaks the track and it sound like heavy clipping "mess" and it is really hard to listen. Almost impossible to listen.

I also found this in wiki:

"A general upward trend in tempo has been observed during the evolution of drum and bass. The earliest forms of drum and bass clocked in at around 130 bpm in 1990/1991, speeding up to around 155–165 BPM by 1993. Since around 1996, drum and bass tempos have predominantly stayed in the 170–180 range. Recently, some producers have started to once again produce tracks with slower tempos (that is, in the 150-170 bpm range), but the mid-170s tempo is still a hallmark of the drum and bass sound."

So that means dnb is in tempo range 130-180bpm.

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 21, 2020 20:29 CEST

I also found this in wiki:

"A general upward trend in tempo has been observed during the evolution of drum and bass. The earliest forms of drum and bass clocked in at around 130 bpm in 1990/1991, speeding up to around 155–165 BPM by 1993. Since around 1996, drum and bass tempos have predominantly stayed in the 170–180 range. Recently, some producers have started to once again produce tracks with slower tempos (that is, in the 150-170 bpm range), but the mid-170s tempo is still a hallmark of the drum and bass sound."


So that means dnb is in tempo range 130-180bpm.

You have to take into account Technics turntables, + - 12
LTJ Bukem, made 89ish, plus there was usage of LP’s @33 pitch to -12 on 45
Some techno tracks were good, also Black eyed boy by Renegade Soundwave or several others on the same Disc

https://www.discogs.com/Renegade-Soundw ... ease/31613

There was so much going on in isolation back then

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 21, 2020 07:36 CEST

I'm quite sure that clients usually do not know what they actually want and many time they have wrong idea about their ideas . Yey I know that genre is Drum and Bass but as example for me, most of time is really hard to understand those small difference especially in electronic dance music. Even if I listen to all examples over and over most of time the difference is small (like different tempo, bass instrument) and still overall composition is very similar (very simple and repetitive ). For me more important is the feel and if it fits the scene overall. Making copy of style is .....boring. I think there are too many genres and subgenres that it almost doesn't have sense any more. For me there is only good or bad music.

That is not the point here.

The point of the Songwriting Competition, is to have a certain "premise" or "brief" (short introduction) if you will. This does not only set the tone for the monthly game. But this is also the only thing that I will connect to simulating a "real world scenario" since the community is still about learning.


The idea with these challenges is to push you out of your comfort zone, look beyond the rim of your teacup and try something that is new to you. Experimenting is absolutely fine - I mean, that is the point of this game. But straight up ignoring the provided audio demos because "things are boring and repetitive"? Or saying "I don't care about the provided audio demos, I will go more experimental" - basically ignoring what has been asked of you, you're basically automatically loosing the game and maybe even don't want to learn anything new.

(and on a sidenote: also show me that I've wasted my time with doing proper music research for setting "corner stones", and providing suitable audio examples)

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 21, 2020 20:29 CEST

So that means dnb is in tempo range 130-180bpm.

The genres I set up for this particular challenges are "Techstep" and "Neurofunk" - and those are in the range between 160bpm and 180bpm.

Please check in again with "Ishkur's Guide", and once more the linked to Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_and_bass#Tempo


The biggest difference you have to keep in mind, is "Liquid Drum and Bass" (which has more "rolling" and softer loops, also more clear bass) compared to Techstep and Neurofunk (more minimal, more aggressive and distorted bass).



Write, Edit, interact! We still have 3 days left on the clock.
Please do spread the word.

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 21, 2020 22:14 CEST

The idea with these challenges is to push you out of your comfort zone, look beyond the rim of your teacup and try something that is new to you. Experimenting is absolutely fine - I mean, that is the point of this game.

Sorry to not be more specific because it looks there is some misunderstanding here. I know the idea behind this SWC and about stepping out of comfort zone. To tell the truth every track I made is step out of comfort zone for me but that is not the point.

I was talking about too many sub genres that only limit the result of track. The more specification and restriction will make tracks too similar. It just looks that someone will make track that will follow basic (main) dnb rules but it doesn't fit in any sub genres that we need to create new sub genre . Only because it is incorporating something new different but still within basic dnb principle why we should doing this? It is not about pointing to restriction in SWC but as general music definition because it will really next time add even more restriction to additional subgenre and we will end with pure Morse code in certain bpm.

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 21, 2020 22:14 CEST

The genres I set up for this particular challenges are "Techstep" and "Neurofunk" - and those are in the range between 160bpm and 180bpm.

The biggest difference you have to keep in mind, is "Liquid Drum and Bass" (which has more "rolling" and softer loops, also more clear bass) compared to Techstep and Neurofunk (more minimal, more aggressive and distorted bass).

And again my question is why it needs to be between 160 - 180 bpm? Is it really not possible to make Techstep and Neurofunk in different tempo? Do we really need to follow everything because most of that subgenre (and maybe all) are in this tempo range? Just asking because this way my track will definitely not be desired sub genre too because it is only 140bpm.

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 21, 2020 22:14 CEST

But straight up ignoring the provided audio demos because "things are boring and repetitive"? Or saying "I don't care about the provided audio demos, I will go more experimental" - basically ignoring what has been asked of you, you're basically automatically loosing the game and maybe even don't want to learn anything new.

No I'm not ignoring provided audio demos because they will get us some pointers but I do not like to follow every principle that define those sub genres or else we make very similar track and this is not creative based on my point of view. We just simply "copy" what we hear.

And to tell the truth I found most EDM and also most pop production boring and repetitive. There some exceptions but most of production is not for me. We are all different. Fore me interesting is as example Bruckner - Symphony No.7 but for many others it will be boring and that is ok.

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 22, 2020 08:52 CEST

And again my question is why it needs to be between 160 - 180 bpm? Is it really not possible to make Techstep and Neurofunk in different tempo?

Well, it effectively becomes another genre if you change the tempo too much.

Ah, I hoped that @Jorgeelalto joins the conversation as music producer in this genre.
Thank you for commenting. Will you be able to join this month's game as well?



The rules are (still) simple:
I've set a premise. The "brief" clearly said "This month, you can create a production in the Drum & Bass genre. Most notably in the sub-genres: Techstep/Hardstep/Darkstep and Neurofunk" (because this is what the "virtual client", aka the non-existing video game company is looking for). That genre has a clear beats-per-minute range, and that is 160-180bpm. Drum and Bass has been between 160-180bpm for over 20 years.

If you go by random comments on Wikipedia and say "went gradually form 140bpm to 180bpm", and you opt for 140bpm, you're working in another genre. In this case... Two-Step or Dubstep (IMHO). And while this technically is a derivative of the "Breakbeat" genre, it is not what SWC036 is about. Sorry to say that.

In fact - two more articles (that I can link to in Post #3):
https://music.stackexchange.com/a/4563
https://blog.accusonus.com/infographic- ... usic-1128/


If you feel that this all feels "boring and same", then it is your task to innovate, keep listeners engaged. And from what I heard from you since you're on the community, you are definitely capable of that. But I get you - while the beat and overall sound of the DnB productions I posted on page 1 feels "the same", it is down to the arrangement and groove. That is the challenge for all participants.

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 22, 2020 08:52 CEST

It is not about pointing to restriction in SWC but as general music definition because it will really next time add even more restriction to additional subgenre and we will end with pure Morse code in certain bpm.

I might be once more misinterpreting what you're saying. I am not talking "Morse Code" at all. There goes a lot of work into every SWC to set clear ground rules, to nudge you towards a specific area. But as it turns out, I might need to invest even more time into this than I thought.

In fact - thank you for sparking the idea to maybe have a dedicated thread (Rule Addendum) that actually lists things like "Ishkur's Guide to EDM", the "Map of Metal", BPM values for known genres, etc. Something that can be referenced to from every Songwriting Competition. I think this might actually help for future SWCs.