Mix Challenge

maxchirico wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:05 CET

Sorry, I'm Max, I'm new. Where I can post my song? I don't found a link to upload

you can use onedrive or dropbox etc.....

This month's theme is strange to me: I'm not familiar with products that develop chord sequences, so I thought I'd dive into the suggested programs.
Prior to this one evening I met some friends at the home of a musician I know lightly and mentioned my ignorance on the subject of automatic generation of chord sequences. He took me into his little studio and quickly generated me the chords on an AABA structure which you see below: nothing fancy but traditionally functional and "jazzy".

CMaj7 Dm7| Em7 Dm7| CMaj7 Dm7| Em7 Dm7|
|:
CMaj7 A7| Dm7 G7| Dm7 G9+| C6,Dm7 Ebdim| Em7 Ebdim| Dm7 A7+| D7 | Dm7 G7|
CMaj7 A7| Dm7 G7| Dm7 G9+| C6,Dm7 Ebdim| Em7 Ebdim| Dm7 A7+| D7 | Dm7/G G7|
Gm7 | C7b9 | FMaj7 C9| FMaj7 Dm7 | Am7 | Bm7b5 E7#9| Am7 D7| Dm7 G7+|
CMaj7 A7| Dm7 G7| Dm7 G9+| C6,Dm7 Ebdim| Em7 Ebdim| Dm7 A7+| D7 | Dm7/G G7

CMaj7|


He used a software called IAB or something similar which he told me was quite expensive (unfortunately I couldn't find any trace of it on the internet, I suppose IA stands for "Artificial Intelligence") with an unusual and hard to understand user interface for me, which in then he generated the ballad tracks that you can listen to (I just adjusted tracks and mixed). I assure you the friend didn't play any keyboards or anything. The whole thing took no more than 15-20 minutes. I was aware of arrangers (such as Yamaha and Roland auto-accompaniment keyboards used for piano bars or small parties) but not of programs that generate arrangements and melodies of this quality. I had probably had a few too many beers, however the next morning in my pendrive there were good quality WAV tracks that you can hear mixed. I don't mind the execution.
It could also be that with the alcohol we drank we played everything in his small studio (the drums were there) and I have only vague memories, but the tracks seemed too clean and of good quality to have been played "live" by tipsy musicians.
Tell me what you think.

Here is the MP3_48k version:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bfHy_K ... share_link

and here the WAV 24/96:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11cZiJL ... share_link

Any feedback is welcome.

GamaGama

Here is some feedback regarding the mixes:

@Arelem
Snare could be more in the front, I'm missing the punch. I consider your entry as Hip Hop-is Lofi sound, so I want that "smack" on the drums.
Kick could be a bit more clearer and separated from the bass, I would scoop the bass by 2-3db in the kicks frequency to give it a little more space and definition in the mix. I would also check if you have any phase problems in the very lows/subs, sometimes on some hits the kick is a bit "washy", it is not hitting my chest every time with the same power. Bass is a little bit muddy in the low mid area (200-500 Hz) or a bit too loud, I don't know.
From 01:15-01:44 a little filter sweep on 1-2 elements (Vox sample and piano?) would give a nice effect.
The little cymbal swell @ 01:44 could also be more audible.

@GamaGama
The brushes are very wide and not so audible, sometimes they sound like some white noise. I would try to bring them more in the middle, or maybe the whole drum kit completely in mono to give it that old times flavour.
The upright bass would benefit if you would give it a little more oomph and warmth, maybe with an eq boost of 2-3 db @ 200-300 Hz.
I would also try to mix all elements in a way that they sound on the same sound stage. I can hear a delay/long reverb tail on the trumpet and saxophone, the other elements are pretty dry compared to them, so I find it is a bit disconnected to the rest. I would add a small reverb as send fx to all elements and see how it sounds.

GamaGama wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 13, 2023 17:25 CET

He used a software called IAB or something similar which he told me was quite expensive (unfortunately I couldn't find any trace of it on the internet, I suppose IA stands for "Artificial Intelligence")

Listening to the recording, I think it's the BIAB (Band in a Box) software. The advantage of this tool that BIAB uses real tracks which are real musicians playing real instruments, so you can compose songs of high quality.
It is a neat tool, but the user interface is not very user-friendly. There are hundreds of pages of manuals to help you find your way around

Mellow Browne wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 13, 2023 20:42 CET

Here is some feedback regarding the mixes:

@Arelem
Snare could be more in the front, I'm missing the punch. I consider your entry as Hip Hop-is Lofi sound, so I want that "smack" on the drums.
Kick could be a bit more clearer and separated from the bass, I would scoop the bass by 2-3db in the kicks frequency to give it a little more space and definition in the mix. I would also check if you have any phase problems in the very lows/subs, sometimes on some hits the kick is a bit "washy", it is not hitting my chest every time with the same power. Bass is a little bit muddy in the low mid area (200-500 Hz) or a bit too loud, I don't know.
From 01:15-01:44 a little filter sweep on 1-2 elements (Vox sample and piano?) would give a nice effect.
The little cymbal swell @ 01:44 could also be more audible.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll see if I can clean up the low end a bit more. I'm not sure I agree with your comments on the snare though. In my experience, lofi snares are not snappy. Actually, I feel like if I was trying to make a proper lofi track, what I have currently is too much. I think where I'm at though is a good middle ground. I'll play with it though and see how it feels with some different snares.

becsei_gyorgy wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 14, 2023 07:50 CET

GamaGama wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 13, 2023 17:25 CET

He used a software called IAB or something similar which he told me was quite expensive (unfortunately I couldn't find any trace of it on the internet, I suppose IA stands for "Artificial Intelligence")

Listening to the recording, I think it's the BIAB (Band in a Box) software. The advantage of this tool that BIAB uses real tracks which are real musicians playing real instruments, so you can compose songs of high quality.
It is a neat tool, but the user interface is not very user-friendly. There are hundreds of pages of manuals to help you find your way around

I completely blended out that "Band in a Box" exists.

While I am not against any Chord Progression or Pattern Creation helper (this is part of this month's task/challenge after all), this whole topic might be something up for debate in the future, @GamaGama / @becsei_gyorgy. The problem here is not the chord progression generation, it's actually the "output" based upon the source material that BIAB provided.

Most tools I mentioned on post #003 are actually plain MIDI tools, and you still need to trigger virtual instruments and/or add your own content. With Band in a Box (and to a certain extend even JJazzLab, which utilizes a custom SF2 with VirtualMIDISynth), you have access to pre-recorded phrases that are cut up/re-arranged/re-pitched based upon your chord progression and defined style. Technically it is a construction kit environment, but with a bit more control in form of "set chords, set a style, hit generate, hit generate again if you didn't like a part".

I listened to your entry, @GamaGama, and aside from some "weird flanging" here and there (from the engine re-cutting/re-adjusting things), it does indeed feel a bit too perfect. While this is not against any rules that are established for the Songwriting Competition (as in: this entry won't be disqualified), and it is quite the technical marvel to even have access to something like that these days...

...it does feel a bit cheat-y towards all other participants that opt to create things "from scratch".


Again, I completely forgot "Band in a Box", and I should have maybe set a limit for this one... my bad.



So what to do here...

Well, maybe something that I'd do in this situation... use this as template, add to it, replace and replay things. For example: if you like the overall chord progression and the trumpets, keep them, but replay the bass and the keyboard. Heavily mangle the drum parts, change the guitar and bass sound, create a whole different mix than the output BIAB generated for you (as in: use your own EQ, compression, delay/reverb).

The general idea should still be "just make music", which you certainly did with your friend, while being tipsy in the studio.
But new and original music you created through the help of a Chord Progression tool. Not just a 2-button 20min auto generation thing.


Just... put more of "yourself" into this, for which you still have over 10 days time for.

@becsei_gyorgy
@Mr Fox

Thank you very mach to let me now the name of that sw "Band in a box".
Now I find it on Internet and understand how does it work: I think that really it is not a "legal" sw for this contest!
If I have time I will post another song, may be using this chord sequence (that for me is a good one) or something else generated using the suggested software.
Pleas Mr Fox keep this song out of the contest (I don't now how I can delete my old post).
I'm sorry, thanks.

GamaGama

Hello guys. I made this track (https://www.dropbox.com/s/83pw8pg6dwbxv ... .mpeg?dl=0) with LARAS (standalone Music Composition and Education Tool). I found a chord labeled "epic" and took that as the main chord progression. I think the final result it's not epic at all but on the contrary, it's straightforward and common. It's not definitive, but I think I won't have much time to change much more as I'm going on a little vacation to nature.
Cheers

It sure does sound interesting, @canese and the task of "just make music" while trying something new has been covered. Although I am not sure how much you let LARAS generate your song, and what was "your own".

However - are you sure this is the final audio you want to submit? Also the file-name? The Dropbox player does not work. And after downloading, it does sound like you've recorded from a laptop speaker of some sorts?

GamaGama wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 14, 2023 20:38 CET

If I have time I will post another song, may be using this chord sequence (that for me is a good one) or something else generated using the suggested software.

I don't think you need to fully scrap things.

Well, you could still use what BIAB has given you as a basis and go as I mentioned in my previous post. Then maybe use something like PluginBoutique's SCALER or (as just talked about) LARAS Composition to generate more, then make that your own, with your own sounds, with your own counter melody, your own mixing.

You definitely got the "learning part" down this month, and the theme as well. You experienced amazing harmony, but you also "experienced dissonance" with learning what BIAB actually does, and what this would mean for your own music making.

GamaGama wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 14, 2023 20:38 CET

Pleas Mr Fox keep this song out of the contest (I don't now how I can delete my old post).
I'm sorry, thanks.

Two ways... "soft delete" button (the black X at the top right of your post), or edit your post later. I got a backup of your entry, also for personal A/B purposes. It's up to you how you want to progress. However, if you don't submit another version/song, I consider your entry "withdrawn". But I might post it as "bonus entry" regardless with a short comment if you keep your original post. If that is okay with you, that is.



There are still roughly 10 more days for SWC067. Plenty to do still, plenty of feedback to give and acquire.

Looks like the last couple of games really added to the overall learning process, and this has also resulted in a positive resonance and interaction.