Mix Challenge

Hi,

a question, maybe due to a lack knowledge: why are the polarized voice files stereo, with the panorama biased to the left and not mono?
Thank so much for your feedback that allows me to learn a lot

I hope I can simplify the following

againstpower wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 02, 2023 14:23 CEST

a question, maybe due to a lack knowledge: why are the polarized voice files stereo, with the panorama biased to the left and not mono?

The microphone of the vocal recordings, was a Lewitt LCT 640 TS.

This microphone offers the user to record each mic capsule separately. The Front one (the one you sing/speak/play into) and the Rear/Back one (Room / "Figure Eight" voice recordings, etc). With what they call "Dual Output Mode", you can even record in stereo (or rather Dual Mono).

This means, that each microphone recording uses two mono audio channels. Our Song Provider then forwarded these channels and recorded them to a stereo track, with the L Channel being the Front mic, and the R channel being the Rear/Back mic. In order to change the polar pattern of this microphone recording after the fact, you then need the Polarizer Plugin**, which also turns the signal into mono again (well, "centered" on a stereo channel).


There is also a prepared "Split Version" of these mics available, to those that can't/don't want to use the Polarizer Plugin.

Example:

Hope this helps.



**Footnote: technically you don't need the Polarizer Plugin, as you can also create a custom setup to create a similar behavior. You just won't have the ease of use and simplicity.

I know that the tracks may differ from those used in the original demo, but the difference is sometimes quite significant:
The piano has a recurring "crackle" sound (something mechanical) and the vocal track has distortion around 2kHz. You can hear this especially at the very beginning of the song. Both can also be heard in the included guide track, but not in the time-aligned version, which is also included. So I wonder, were other tracks used for this or were the noises and distortions actually removed by reworking?

This is where reading the TXTs/Words from the Song Provider come in:

The time aligned version is from demo recordings from as early as 2009 (it's only available for completeness sake).
The version you folks have access to, are recordings from 2019.
The Youtube video in post #002 reflects a more modern mix (2020), based upon the 2019 recordings.

Only Gaz (Williams) can tell what he did while mixing. However, he made clear in a live stream in March 2021 (see: The Gaz Williams Show - Rocketgoldstar from 10-MAR-2021), that multiple versions of the same song do indeed exist.


Your task is to make the best final product possible, based upon what has been given to you, in your own mix style and skill-set.

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 02, 2023 20:42 CEST

This is where reading the TXTs/Words from the Song Provider come in:

The time aligned version is from demo recordings from as early as 2009 (it's only available for completeness sake).
The version you folks have access to, are recordings from 2019.
The Youtube video in post #002 reflects a more modern mix (2020), based upon the 2019 recordings.

Only Gaz (Williams) can tell what he did while mixing. However, he made clear in a live stream in March 2021 (see: The Gaz Williams Show - Rocketgoldstar from 10-MAR-2021), that multiple versions of the same song do indeed exist.


Your task is to make the best final product possible, based upon what has been given to you, in your own mix style and skill-set.

Hi Mr. Fox, thanks for the clarification. The part of the text from the provider I have probably actually read over ...
I was particularly interested in whether someone had actually managed to eliminate these noises and distortions as perfectly as they appeared in the demo. My attempts with RX etc. had brought little. I am therefore reassured that it was indeed done with other tracks.

I had to check the instruments in question again. From what I gathered from the "Behind the Scenes" video (again, see: The Gaz Williams Show - Rocketgoldstar from 10-MAR-2021), the March 2020 mix of the song, and from the provided documentation:

Earlier versions apparently used used a mix of samples and synthesizers, while the multi-tracks from 2019/the mix from 2020 uses a real piano. I think what you notice with the upright piano recording, is a (slightly) noisy pedal mechanic (most evident on chord changes). One could try some tool trickery, but I think you will never get the super clean quality you might be after.


In fact, this is how an opened upright piano sounds. Especially one at that age.

Here are three examples (Youtube) where you can clearly hear the pedal mechanic to more or less extend - which is often desired even.

Meyer Street Records -- showing off an opened Yamaha U1A (circa 1983-1988)
VibrationsStudios -- showing an opened upright piano, comparing small diaphragm microphones with large diaphragm ones
SherwoodPhoenix -- showing off an opened upright piano, no perfect mic setup (built probably mid 1900s)

Charm or perfection - quite the challenge, isn't it?



The distortion in the lead vocals could be addressed through the help of the usual tools (cleanup tools, dynamic EQ, etc), if you really want to go that route.


I hope this clears all eventualities.
Have fun mixing!

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 03, 2023 08:18 CEST

Charm or perfection - quite the challenge, isn't it?

Thanks again,
well, for that kind of song, "charm" (or atmosphere) is of course the way to go. It was just that clean demo, that let me thought there must be a way to eliminate the noises

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 02, 2023 19:21 CEST

I hope I can simplify the following

againstpower wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 02, 2023 14:23 CEST

a question, maybe due to a lack knowledge: why are the polarized voice files stereo, with the panorama biased to the left and not mono?

The microphone of the vocal recordings, was a Lewitt LCT 640 TS.

This microphone offers the user to record each mic capsule separately. The Front one (the one you sing/speak/play into) and the Rear/Back one (Room / "Figure Eight" voice recordings, etc). With what they call "Dual Output Mode", you can even record in stereo (or rather Dual Mono).

This means, that each microphone recording uses two mono audio channels. Our Song Provider then forwarded these channels and recorded them to a stereo track, with the L Channel being the Front mic, and the R channel being the Rear/Back mic. In order to change the polar pattern of this microphone recording after the fact, you then need the Polarizer Plugin**, which also turns the signal into mono again (well, "centered" on a stereo channel).


There is also a prepared "Split Version" of these mics available, to those that can't/don't want to use the Polarizer Plugin.

Example:

Code: Select all

Needs the Polarizer Plugin to "decode"
Gaz lead vox (polarizer).wav

"Split Version" - can be used "as-is" with careful blending
Gaz lead vox .wav
Gaz lead vox (mic rear).wav

Hope this helps.



**Footnote: technically you don't need the Polarizer Plugin, as you can also create a custom setup to create a similar behavior. You just won't have the ease of use and simplicity.

Thank you Mr Fox, you have been very clear and resolutive, as usual.

First of all i am happy when i see that there is new mix challenge every time.The song was plesure to work with.I dont use the plugin for the vocals.
Here is my version hope to enjoy: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r_Nx8u ... sp=sharing

-9.49 True peak -21.8 lufs

Drums:

kick-Condenser mic -3 db,gate on both tracks,76 style comp on the condenser track fast att fast release -2gr max
overheads-76 style comp fast att fast release -3db gr,soothe symbol de harsh - 3 db gr, eq-hi pass 20 hz -3.5 at 660 -1.4 at 2320
snare -omni channel- even saturation 3 db - 8k + 5 db shelf 2.8khz + 0.5 90 hz -3 db low shelf fet style comp fast att fast release -6 db gr,spl transients- att -3 systain +3
room - i made room my self by double the overheads track hi pass at 1k and adding 3 party revurb and blend it very low
toms - 76 style comp again with fast settings and hi pass close to the root frequency of the toms
Drum buss -blended decapitator on paralell revurb on paralell eq-low shelf -3 db to 150 hz bumb at 170 +3 db +1 db at 8
Drum paralell comp - ssl style comp -3 db gr fast att fast release more or less blended very high

Bass:

Di track - blended pretty low just to give the fondation
dinmic track -3 db
rest tracks at zero
phace align all the tracks
Bass buss soothe for melodic bass control 76 style comp att 4 release 6 2-3 db gr max
blended r bass at 90 hz
eq hi pass at 50 hz -2 db at 230 hz bumb at 1.2 khz +3 db
blended rooms revurb with hi pass to make the bass more "wide"

Guitars:

Acc gits: l2 style comp 3-5 b gain reduction hi pass at 50 hz +2 db presence and + 4 hi shelf at 12 khz for "air"
El. git: duplicate the 2 tracks 3 times so i can cut the parts that i wanna procces with more control
in the intro part hard pan the 2 mics and just hi pass them
Solo part l2 style comp hi pass at 150 hz 2 db at 2 k for pres and some hi shelf for air dilay on send with hi and low pass
final parts just hard pan again with hi pass

Piano:
near mics -3 db
on the buss pan wide 90l90r mu style comp blended hall and decapitator
eq cutting lows adding presance and air to the top

Organ:
Bottom mics lan left and right to 50 for wider sound no issues on the ceralation meter
l2 style comp

Sinths:
Added brouer motion plugin for extra lair "ear candy" 120 hz hi pass and some tube drive

Vocals:
Main Vox-stock Tube comp -3 db gr max de esser blended decapitator
maag eq for adding air and presance and one more de esser cose there are very hard to control esses
cla epic for fx on send with eq after it to remove the " mud"

Frank vocals:
balance by ears panning limiter and hi pass at 100 120 hz

Sion vocals:
L2 style comp hi pass balance and panning

Extra layer of vocals:
L2 style comp hi passing and some side widening

master buss:

only j37 tape plugin for saturation/compression no need for me to put more plugins there its mixing after all

Hello everyone, Gaz Williams here from the band Rocketgoldstar. Thanks so much for taking part in this mix challenge. I chose this song as I thought it contained many interesting mix challenges within it. There is lots of dynamic changes which is always tricky and due to the acoustic and electric instruments being traditional there us almost a right way and a wrong way to mix them. I’m most curious to see what everyone comes up with.

I am happy to answer any questions that may arise although I am very impressed with the amount of detail Mr Fox has presented.

Good luck with the challenge!