Mix Challenge

Hi,

1) Enjoy my city-building tune called "Sidewalk Mogul" (Rev3, final version):
http://tinkerstate.com/mix-challenge/SW ... _Mogul.wav

2) Documentation below (click on "SHOW" to expand):

Finally, our first entry. Thank you for breaking the ice, and apologies for the late reply.

As with the years prior, I'm splitting the feedback into two sections. The quote is what "the client" thinks, and the rest are some possible technical hints. As mentioned earlier, with the Songwriting Competition you can edit/re-upload your track as often as you deem fit until the deadline has been reached. There are no "multiple rounds". However, the more finished your song, they more to-the-point the feedback from the contractor can be.



The devs wrote:

Indie Developers wrote: Hello @juhu,

Thank you so much for this proposal. We appreciate your work and creative output.

We really enjoy the 1970s Jazz inspired vibe with your song. Although we do miss a bit of variation. You understood the concept of what we would like to do in the game. However, right now... we are looking for your "presentation mixes".

Currently, your creation feels like a 1:00min section that is looped twice, with a 16 bar intro. While this isn't wrong per se and could work in the concept of the game, we still would love to hear a bit more from you. Maybe some variation, like a more subdued part, maybe a more upbeat part later as well.

Please keep up the good work - you're nearly there.

Staff Commentary:

I must admit, I do not know what you mean with "Logic Pro's Stock Presets", unless we talk certain instruments (like EXS, Drum Kit Designer, Studio Piano, etc) and their particular presets. I assume, most of the content is hand-played, although the new Logic Pro 11 Session Player features can add to a more off-beat play-feel. No judgement, just trying to understand what tools you've used.

Mix wise... I like the 1970's feel. Although the initial drum hit with the bass feels like a pumping compressor. That could maybe be adjusted by not having both hit at the same time. The drum kit also feels a bit bright (that feel mostly comes from the snare, and certain crashes -- especially on small speakers). On more low-end heavy headphones, the kit definitely works a bit better, and the flutes also don't feel out of place room wise. They still feel like being recorded in a completely different room (listen to the reverb).

Else, well balanced mix that translates well to multiple devices. I definitely love the bass sound (if that's the Logic Pro 11 Studio Bass, without an amp even, that's a nice addition / competition now).

Songwriting wise, I can only add little. It really feels like 2x looped 1min sections with slight variation. Maybe try to push yourself just a tiny smidge more. Like, throw in a tambourine or different shaker, experiment with E-Piano sounds (layered, maybe?), emphasize some strings/pads a bit. As somebody that knows how to play drums, I'd also adjust the snare ever so slightly... make it feel more like a tea-towel dampened snare. Also, some of the hesitation (playing / bar transition) throws me off... but hey... you simulate jazzy jam session.

All in all - great starting point. The rest is down to fine-tuning.




This concludes my "1-time feedback" during the submission period.
I hope you can work with this.

Looking forward to hear more entries

Hi,

Here is my entry for this month:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ELZ-Ab ... share_link

Not sure from which game I got the inspiration but I definitely played Sim City, Cities Skylines, Civilization, Theme Park, Sims etc. back in the days.
I had no clear vision which direction to go so it ended in a more dystopian and dark vibe, as if challenging times are coming. I hope this fits the year 2030 theme a bit.

Infos:

And there is Entry #002 of hopefully many more to come.


The devs wrote:

Indie Developers wrote: Hello @Mellow Browne,

Thank you kindly for this proposal.

While your contribution is thought-provoking, we're still curious as to where this route is going. We do plan to have a more evolving gameplay after all.

You definitely went more towards a darker and more minimalist "industrial" tone, barely scraping by what we would call "epicness" (due to the used percussive work). This track also reminds us heavily of Real Time Strategy Games from the 1990s. While you do provide a very nice concept piece for a possible later state or more "problematic" gameplay state of our game, the production does feel a bit monotone and the drums start to get a little bit annoying. Maybe you should address that.

We appreciate your work so far, thank you very much. You got some interesting ideas here, please keep at it.

Staff Commentary:

After listening to this track multiple times, I was definitely reminded of a blend of "Dune II" (Westwood, Frank Klepacki) and somewhat "Homeworld: Desert of Kharak". But also the Unigine Corp. "Heaven" Benchmark software. Not necessarily what I expected with the brief, but the idea behind this game is to make a bold move, push limits, show off what you can do and impress the clients. Let's see where the road will take us during the course of this month's game.

What really stands out here, are the drums. They do get a bit irritating and feel too "in your face" in places, especially on small speakers. This sadly doesn't change on studio headphones either, I'm afraid. On headphones, it's also more apparent that you could maybe refine your reverb usage. As of this moment, it feels like you're using very reflective living room, which clashes with the pulsing bass and strings.

Maybe try to make things a bit more dynamic - only some hits having a room sound for emphasis, the rest being more dry. The chorusing pulsing bass also comes with a certain reverb, if my ears do not fool me. I'd maybe also dial this back - or play with the reverb strength for certain sections of this song (more dry in the sparse intro section, more wet in more busier sections. Maybe turn up the pluck synth in the background (the one that moves left to right). The melody in the end could also maybe just a tad more prominent/clearer. But that's personal opinion.

Overall, finding the right mix balance to keep you engaged while listening is not easy with this. I can think of creating layers of sounds that are in sections.... certain things are in front, while others are in the back, shifting and moving ever so often. For example, the part from 2:05min with the timpani in the back, the string in front of them, then the pulsing bass feeling more dry (even though the reverb didn't change!), while the effects draw you in, that works.

Another thing that could work, is more ear-candy... subtle reverse reverb effects to transition into sections. The first part of the song is also a tad barebones. Granted, there are also no game sounds, which does have an effect on how you perceive the music. However, the music also needs to work on it's own.

It is a nice piece of music, unexpected. I think it's really just down to fine-tuning as well.

I hope this helps.

Hello Friends, Mister Fox and Staff,

I present to you my soundtrack proposal for the video games you are programming.
It's an almost finished topic. Maybe he needs to help the levels and something else.
I imagined this music for the construction part of the city in the 60s and 70s, with a touch of messy jazz.
It is a very different proposition from what you are used to.
I hope you like it.

P.S. the trumpet pieces are samples.

viewtopic.php?t=739&start=30#p17470

Esteve

First and foremost, apologies for the late response...


The devs wrote:

Indie Developers wrote: Hello @EsteveCorbera,

Thank you for for sending in this proposal, appreciated.

We are open to musical ideas, this is why we've reached out. And your submission has definitely something going on. Although we were a bit undecided on the often returning off-key trumpet pieces. It surely has a bit of "messy jazz" going on, but that would be one of the examples where we'd say "this takes you out of the game" and should maybe be addressed.

Other than that, this could certainly work for us. We would love to hear more...

Staff Commentary:

This time, it's a bit hard for me to explain what could actually be looked at a bit closer, as harmony theory is not my strong suit. The biggest thing that stands out here, are the trumpet melodies. They often feel way too off-key (maybe on purpose) and off-beat, which is not really working in your favor here. You should really take another closer look at this.

Then another thing, is the droning pad sound in the back, that seemingly doesn't change notes at all (only towards the end). Another recurring topic is the usage of "spaces", or room sounds in this case. Once more, the trumpets feel in a different space than the drums, same with the Upright Bass, and also the strings. Maybe focus on two global reverbs maximum, not a "room" for each individual instrument.

Volume adjustments are also recommended. The background drone strings are a bit too loud, certain synths drown out due to this. The bass could have a touch of EQ or Saturation to push it out a bit more (upper-midrange). And always try to check between headphones and small speakers. On headphones, the droning strings are way too apparent, and you can clearly hear the different "rooms" as well.


I would say, you got a lot of interesting ideas here, even going against the grain of the proposed "Time Frame" (year 2030) and rather depicting tech from 1970s - while adding synthetic elements to your production (which makes this "more hybrid", fitting into a modern scenario as well). Just... please address some timing issues with the brass and certain notes to make this more "in key".

I hope you can work with that.

A friendly reminder:
Including today, 7 days left to submit your production.

So far, we have 03 entries -- all of them got "client feedback" already, but other than that, sadly no usual user interaction.


Please keep in mind:
Sunday, 21-JUL-2024 will mark the final day for "initial feedback by the clients" - that is in roughly 4 days. I will respond by end of Monday, 22nd latest in order of how the material was sent in. Please keep in mind, feedback will take me a bit. So please do not all send "at this very day".



Other than that:

Now is the perfect time to post your entry!

If you want to access the extended game mechanics of the Songwriting Competition (asking for feedback during production), please try to release your first edits within the next 3 to 4 days to have enough time to get possible feedback (if needed/wanted) and continue to work on your song.

And to those sitting on the fence - please don't feel scared off and think "the bar is set too high, I will never make it" - set yourself a shorter private deadline. Just make music, submit your entry, join the conversation. See where this goes.

By joining, you're already a winner. The rest is bonus.

Hello everybody,

Edit:
This is my entry for this month's competition (v3)


The WAV version is here:
Stadentwickler_v3.wav

I wanted to start the song with some "classic" instruments (piano, acoustic guitar, cello) and add some "modern" synth sounds for the melody and the bass. Edit: Instead of drums, I only used the hi-hat in the second part of the song. If I did everything right, it should be loopable.

If anyone has tips for separating the (central) piano and the acoustic guitars (left and right) in the mix, I'd be thankful. They use a very similar sound spectrum and just panning won't do the job.

Tools used:

Once more, apologies for the late response...


The devs wrote:

Indie Developers wrote: Hello @KukoBass,

Thank you for showing us your proposal.

A very minimalist approach to the given brief - interesting. However, we can't shake the feeling that there is supposed to be... more? We really can not tell. If this is it, then we would definitely like to hear more. Looping wasn't mandatory either - in fact, we would prefer standalone tracks. This is a "musicians showcase" after all.

Overall - a certain "upbeat feeling" does come across. Yet, since we're unsure if this is a nearly 90% finished production or a scratch track, we can't comment any further in which direction this can still go. Apologies for the inconvenience.

We would have really loved to hear more first.

Staff Commentary:

Yeah... I am a bit puzzled on this one. This really feels like a scratch track, indeed. Something that the brief explicitly mentioned not to do. Looping was also not necessary this month either. Maybe I am missing something.

Apologies for the harshness in the following words. Overall, this also has a more "General MIDI" synth sounding feeling. As in, just a ROMpler from the 1990s (Roland, Yamaha), with 5-7 MIDI tracks and that's it, with timing issues and missing tracks (because the SYSEX allocation had a hiccup). One of the things that stand out, maybe due to the lack of a rhythmic element throughout the song -- the instruments don't feel tight in places. This is especially noticeable with the bass and piano around the 1:00 to 1:08 mark, and once the hi-hats set in at 1:16 as well. This gives the impression of "stumbling along".

On small speakers, the Guitars also pretty much vanish, while the Piano and Synth get the biggest focus. On studio headphones (not corrected - just listening), as usual, you do hear more elements and the balance is definitely better. Yet as with most previous entries, then it's once more the reverb that's standing out (bright, medium sized room), too much for the percussion and the piano. The guitars are there, but still kind vanish.

I would say, there can still a lot be done - and please do invest the time until the end of the game. Maybe consider adding more percussive elements (loops), maybe some subtle transition effects. Definitely check your quantization, listen on speakers(!!!) and not just headphones.

You do provide some interesting ideas with your song, but it currently feels really sparse.


I hope this helps.

I'm imagining the presentation mode of the game will take the form of a city flythrough so I have provided a selection of 16 bar sections illustrating different areas of the city such as housing, commercial building, heavy industry, pollution etc

I restricted myself to just using Cubase synths, mainly because I have been spending a lot of time playing with the new free (and excellent) X-Stream synth which provided most of the pads, textures and sequences

Host - Cubase 13 Pro
Synths:
Cubase X-Stream, Padshop, Retrologue, Novel Piano, Navia Harp
Little bit of Fabfilter delay and saturation here and there
Baby Audio Transit and Steinberg Loopmash used for transitions between sections
Ozone 11 and Cubase Magneto on the master