Mix Challenge

For the bleed I used a lot of High Pass and Low EQ on each track. Cutting frequencies on each track that did not pertain to the instrument on each track.

Using phase align 1 on all the tracks, with the "reference" track being the OH Right also helped to tighten up the sound a bit.

I didnt really use any serial dynamics processing on any tracks which also helped and used parallel compression with a send back to the mixbus to acheive the desired sound without pumping the silent bleed too much.

I also cut out all "dead air" when instruments were not playing to limit the amount of bleed introduced and used noise gates and volume enveloping to keep drastic changes from being noticable when an instrument track came "live" so there was a gradual increase in bleed instead of sudden bursts of extra bleed.

Hopefully these tips help others.

Accidently I mixed the entire song with my central station mono monitor mix engaged which to my surprise worked quite well. Only after 90% of the mix was done and I was fine tuning did I discover the mono was enguaged and when I turned it off i was plesantly surprised on how good the mix sounded...even the panning which I did with mono engaged accidently...lol.

Something that would interest me greatly, would be some kind of marker to say whether the participant was professional or amateur. While I realise there are superb amateurs and not so great pros, the reason is this.
I read with interest lists of mind boggling processing and reasoning on almost every element and I think to myself... well... The mix I'm hearing does not sound like the description at all. Perhaps it would read that a,b,c,d and e were done to bring out the subtle tones and improve the clarity but i can barely hear that instrument. Or perhaps 2 pages of processing to make the mix sound lively but to me it sounds like a flat over compressed unbalanced dead thing. haha, that sounds harsh I know, I exaggerate to make the points.

Often, if I listen really hard and focus on the instrument the process is describing, I can hear what was aimed at... for that instrument... and I imagine that solo it would sound as described, but in the mix the processing has caused that instrument to almost disappear in a mush of other similarly processed tracks and I wonder why do this at all?

There are other mixes with similar piles of described processing that has worked and sound really good which makes me wonder who is a pro and who is a "learner applying processing they have seen on a youtube video because they read some successful mixer does that", without due regard to the needs of that track. I think we've all done this, we need to experiment to learn, hence my first sentence of this post.

IMO this particular mix is a wonderful example of "solo at your peril".

zed999 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 01, 2023 10:25 CEST

Something that would interest me greatly, would be some kind of marker to say whether the participant was professional or amateur. While I realise there are superb amateurs and not so great pros, the reason is this.
I read with interest lists of mind boggling processing and reasoning on almost every element and I think to myself... well... The mix I'm hearing does not sound like the description at all. Perhaps it would read that a,b,c,d and e were done to bring out the subtle tones and improve the clarity but i can barely hear that instrument. Or perhaps 2 pages of processing to make the mix sound lively but to me it sounds like a flat over compressed unbalanced dead thing. haha, that sounds harsh I know, I exaggerate to make the points.

Often, if I listen really hard and focus on the instrument the process is describing, I can hear what was aimed at... for that instrument... and I imagine that solo it would sound as described, but in the mix the processing has caused that instrument to almost disappear in a mush of other similarly processed tracks and I wonder why do this at all?

There are other mixes with similar piles of described processing that has worked and sound really good which makes me wonder who is a pro and who is a "learner applying processing they have seen on a youtube video because they read some successful mixer does that", without due regard to the needs of that track. I think we've all done this, we need to experiment to learn, hence my first sentence of this post.

IMO this particular mix is a wonderful example of "solo at your peril".

Maybe the process from amateur to pro goes something like this: In the beginning, when you start to learn about everything, you do what you think sounds good and the verbal and rule-governed part of your mind is more dominant. With more expertise you start to learn what the tools actually do and your ears and brain starts to get more and more sensitive to what you’re actually hearing. The more your attention shifts to what you’re hearing your mixes start to get better (decent monitors and acoustic treatment of your mixroom assured).

One thing I think would be helpful is to know a little about each mix participants monitoring environment. Some participants on here have consistently great balanced mixes where I would assume these people probably have dedicated studio rooms with proper monitors and acoustic treatment....and there's others probably (like myself ) doing this as a hobby out of an untreated bedroom studio and cans.... Since the sound you hear when mixing has a big influence on the decisions made, it would be good to know how extensive others mixing environments are.

If anyone would like to give me feedback on my mix this month I would appreciate it... Being my environment isnt ideal, my biggest concern is tonal balance in the low mid region.

PistolPete wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 01, 2023 14:52 CEST

One thing I think would be helpful is to know a little about each mix participants monitoring environment. Some participants on here have consistently great balanced mixes where I would assume these people probably have dedicated studio rooms with proper monitors and acoustic treatment....and there's others probably (like myself ) doing this as a hobby out of an untreated bedroom studio and cans.... Since the sound you hear when mixing has a big influence on the decisions made, it would be good to know how extensive others mixing environments are.

If anyone would like to give me feedback on my mix this month I would appreciate it... Being my environment isnt ideal, my biggest concern is tonal balance in the low mid region.

@PistolPete
Here you go buddy: Listening to your mix, I think frequency wise you got it sorted out, nothing sticks out too much. I am missing some punch from the lower percussion elements, kick etc. The instruments could be more separated, they seem to occupy too much of the same space (in the center). Maybe panning would help. Here and there the leadvocals fight against the rest of the band, mostly the guitars. Maybe compression/automation could do the trick. There is a strange hiss in the end, maybe on the drum track, what's going on there? But overall it's a decent approach and there's nothing you couldn't fix with earcans I guess Hope this helps.

Is there a place where we can find all the links submitted for each contests ?
I'm willing to give a listen to PistolPete's mix but I have to read maybe 10 pages of posts in order to find it

It is interesting to compare mixing environments/tools used. Personally I mix in my living room, untreated, speakers aren't even aligned and are on the ground, and I'm not even in the middle of the room or in the middle of both speakers, with just a bell on my soundcard cutting around 75Hz coz after years I realized it was boomy at those frequencies I guess I'm used to it lol. Speakers aren't bad tho as they are KRK Rokit 8 (+subwoofer, so helpful for the extreme low end), never let me down since 15 years or so. I rarely use cans (I should do it more !! but I hate how unbalanced everything is when i mix/compose in the cans, I guess I'm still not used to them), they are Beyerdynamics btw. I double check my mixes on my phone, helps a lot. I'm too lazy to do the car test (need to unplug usb stick, plug into computer, copy tracks, unplug and replug into the car, take the car out... to much work lol)

Christoph_K wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 01, 2023 15:27 CEST

PistolPete wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 01, 2023 14:52 CEST

One thing I think would be helpful is to know a little about each mix participants monitoring environment. Some participants on here have consistently great balanced mixes where I would assume these people probably have dedicated studio rooms with proper monitors and acoustic treatment....and there's others probably (like myself ) doing this as a hobby out of an untreated bedroom studio and cans.... Since the sound you hear when mixing has a big influence on the decisions made, it would be good to know how extensive others mixing environments are.

If anyone would like to give me feedback on my mix this month I would appreciate it... Being my environment isnt ideal, my biggest concern is tonal balance in the low mid region.

@PistolPete
Here you go buddy: Listening to your mix, I think frequency wise you got it sorted out, nothing sticks out too much. I am missing some punch from the lower percussion elements, kick etc. The instruments could be more separated, they seem to occupy too much of the same space (in the center). Maybe panning would help. Here and there the leadvocals fight against the rest of the band, mostly the guitars. Maybe compression/automation could do the trick. There is a strange hiss in the end, maybe on the drum track, what's going on there? But overall it's a decent approach and there's nothing you couldn't fix with earcans I guess Hope this helps.

Your feedback is very helpful! Thank you @Christoph_K for taking the time to give me feedback. Im always afraid in panning the instruments too far R and L so its good to know could give them some more separation to the benefit. Great tip. Also definitely agree with you on the vocals too..i listend this morning on my smartphone and noticed the vix almost were too loud on my mix. Your feedback really helps confirm the things i had a feeling needed more work so thank you so much! Yeah the hiss at the end im not sure if it was a plugin or ??.. I will have to address it if im lucky enough to make round 2. Thank you again @Christoph_K for very honest and detailed feedback.

Davias wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 01, 2023 15:31 CEST

Is there a place where we can find all the links submitted for each contests ?
I'm willing to give a listen to PistolPete's mix but I have to read maybe 10 pages of posts in order to find it

It is interesting to compare mixing environments/tools used. Personally I mix in my living room, untreated, speakers aren't even aligned and are on the ground, and I'm not even in the middle of the room or in the middle of both speakers, with just a bell on my soundcard cutting around 75Hz coz after years I realized it was boomy at those frequencies I guess I'm used to it lol. Speakers aren't bad tho as they are KRK Rokit 8 (+subwoofer, so helpful for the extreme low end), never let me down since 15 years or so. I rarely use cans (I should do it more !! but I hate how unbalanced everything is when i mix/compose in the cans, I guess I'm still not used to them), they are Beyerdynamics btw. I double check my mixes on my phone, helps a lot. I'm too lazy to do the car test (need to unplug usb stick, plug into computer, copy tracks, unplug and replug into the car, take the car out... to much work lol)

Here is a link to my mix..
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QqMZws ... p=drivesdk

I agree with you on mixing on Cans...i have some Sennheiser HD280s and whenever I mix in them the mixes sound amazing in the headphones but then sound awful on other playback devices...so now i just use them more for reference.

I have a similar monitoring setup...2x 20 year old fostex pm5s which really arent great bit do the job. No eq correction on my output signal so the low and low mids are always extremely hard for me to judge. In an apartment so monitoring is always at very low levels so my neigbors dont hate me. I have some very nice Event ASP8s boxed up that I used to use when I had an actual studio facilty some 20 years ago...too big for my small apartment though. I do have a 31 band 2 channel EQ and room meausrememt Mic device but havent went through the trouble of EQ'n the room as it would involve too much work for me rewiring my studio for the little bit of mixing I do now a days...

I love these contests as they really are helping me get better. Most of my "semi pro" mixing career some 20 years ago was in the rap/hiphop genre which usually was mixing vocals into a 2 track instrumental beat so it was more of a pseudo mixing/mastering hybrid that i got really good with bit had almost zero expreience with other genres of music, and individual instrument tracks. I can tell from a year or 2 ago when I joined this mix contest form that my skills have definitely improved trying to compete with all these other engineers mixes from all over the world. Really enjoy being exposed to all the international genres and flavors of songs to mix too.

The other thing this site misses IMO is an easy way to show your appreciation of posts like Christoph_k's above. A simple "like" button would do it.
My mixes got a bit better (I hope) when I bought some decent headphones (Neuman NDH30). Previously I only had DT770's which frankly are a hyped muddle.
Headphones are a great help but not so good for balancing or reverb or panning I find. I have no hope of good monitoring in my narrowboat home, it's under 2m wide, bass traps would fill it up.

Christoph_K wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 01, 2023 13:10 CEST

zed999 wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 01, 2023 10:25 CEST

Something that would interest me greatly, would be some kind of marker to say whether the participant was professional or amateur. While I realise there are superb amateurs and not so great pros, the reason is this.
I read with interest lists of mind boggling processing and reasoning on almost every element and I think to myself... well... The mix I'm hearing does not sound like the description at all. Perhaps it would read that a,b,c,d and e were done to bring out the subtle tones and improve the clarity but i can barely hear that instrument. Or perhaps 2 pages of processing to make the mix sound lively but to me it sounds like a flat over compressed unbalanced dead thing. haha, that sounds harsh I know, I exaggerate to make the points.

Often, if I listen really hard and focus on the instrument the process is describing, I can hear what was aimed at... for that instrument... and I imagine that solo it would sound as described, but in the mix the processing has caused that instrument to almost disappear in a mush of other similarly processed tracks and I wonder why do this at all?

There are other mixes with similar piles of described processing that has worked and sound really good which makes me wonder who is a pro and who is a "learner applying processing they have seen on a youtube video because they read some successful mixer does that", without due regard to the needs of that track. I think we've all done this, we need to experiment to learn, hence my first sentence of this post.

IMO this particular mix is a wonderful example of "solo at your peril".

Maybe the process from amateur to pro goes something like this: In the beginning, when you start to learn about everything, you do what you think sounds good and the verbal and rule-governed part of your mind is more dominant. With more expertise you start to learn what the tools actually do and your ears and brain starts to get more and more sensitive to what you’re actually hearing. The more your attention shifts to what you’re hearing your mixes start to get better (decent monitors and acoustic treatment of your mixroom assured).

That sounds familiar, I'm just starting to listen and have aims this year after 3 or 4 years of aimless messing around and learning what the tools do. I've become more subtle in their use too now I hear more clearly what they are doing. Great post, thanks.