Mix Challenge

fajebru wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 29, 2018 16:57 CEST

Tapwater
the toms are too loud. get them better in balance

I think this is about the panning. Maybe just move the rack tom (right channel) closer to the middle/snare to match the position of that tom to where it appears in the overheads or maybe solo just the overheads and toms and then adjust the panning of the toms to match the positions in the overheads. They are not too loud here. Just way too much distance from the center making them appear as they are not part of the same drumkit. Just my 2 cents...

fajebru wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 29, 2018 16:57 CEST

MOA22
the one thing I don't like is the snare
it needs more aggression, presence, whatever...anything that baaams

Yeah. Go buy a DW drum kit for 12000€ and you get that baam. Just kidding...

Since this is about providing feedback. What all those mixes have in common is really heavy processing on the drums nearly destroying the high frequencies. Cymbals sound messed up badly to my ears. Hihats nearly inaudible. Just too much of everything. But that's just my 2 cents.

Wizzo wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 29, 2018 17:50 CEST

For me no evaluation no participation next time ! don't know what other members think ! good luck for R2 guys .

Wizzo, I completely agree with you in the fact that the individual feedback will be sorely missed as the forum continues to grow. It would be awesome to keep it in the range of 20-30 songs that it has been in the past. I do think it is a really important piece that will be missing as numbers grow larger putting a huge burden upon the artist.

Maybe the group can come up with an alternative such as having a section where each entry has a dedicated place where others can leave a quick review or feedback. That way the mixer and others could quickly scan to see all feedback on a particular song.

Perhaps the feedback should be hidden to all until Round 2, so that the artist is not tempted/influenced by other feedback????

While this would not be as valuable as feedback from the artist, I feel it might be a decent alternative.

Feedback is encouraged now, but it is a bit awkward in the forum format, and it would be nice to be able to see all feedback for a song at once. I think more people would give more feedback if it was in this format.

That.being said, I am very happy for Mister Fox to see the growth in the forum. Kudos to you for putting together this great format. May the artist donations continue to stoke the fire!

PART 2

While I am voicing my opinion, with all the talk of VOLUME in this thread, I don't understand all of the controversy. We all are working in DAWs, and I always import each wav file and compensate the volume. It is the only way to compare, of course. None of the mixes are going to be exactly the same, so there is no way around this. Common sense; right?

Also, I would be careful to use your ears and not dismiss a song based on volume alone, because each person's individual workflow is different.

My analog summing, for example, adds upward of 6db to my mixer. I always start my tracks by gain staging to 0dbv and then pull the faders down 5 to 10 db for a starting point. After itb general track eq/comp processing, I am always seem to be at the edge of the the recommended contest limits.

THEN out of the box, an extra 3-6 db get added along with glue (1.5-2:1) comp. So basically, I am typically turning down my mixer artificially to stay within recommended parameters, which seems kind of silly, doesn't it? Especially considering all songs must be normalized for judging anyway.

Sometimes, if I am in a rush, I just send the mix it as is.

Anyway, I know that there may be some mixes out there that I suspect may be mastered, but just wanted to point out that there can be other legitimate factors involved that increase volume that don't involve mastering.

What can I say? I love the analog sound of transformers being pushed!! I don't know if others are summing, but I have never heard this discussed here and thought I would throw it out.

Congrats to the second rounders. There are some good mixes out there.

Cheers

Kevin

Thats for MrFox I guess:
We understand that lots of mixes are done, but really, the goal of this SPEND-YOUR-TIME-FOR-FREE-CHALLENGE is to learn something...
And funny that it is MIX challenge, that is judged by client. I mean, there is some feedback with the client always, when you do such a job. If there is no feedback during the work, it kind of... random By short introducing like "I like drums" with no direct reference, it is totally random.
Anyway thank you for this opportunity, was nice summer with you, but the same as few others, think thats it for me And rules...

Bullshit Bastard wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 29, 2018 19:52 CEST

I listened to the mixes entering the next round and I think I know why they were chosen. Learning from that already. Next time I may submit a final production calling it just a mix.

Absolutely agree Thats the way to win such challenges

Anyway, thank you everyone who participating )

Thank you for handling the evaluation, fajebru.

Let us kick off Mix Round 2, which will end on Thursday, 04-OCT-2018 11:59pm GMT+2/CEST


There is a GLOBAL COUNTDOWN available to check for deadlines.
Just follow this link: Global Countdown (on homepage)



The following 9 participants go into Round 2 (alphabetical order)

3ee
dobebon
Drumwizard
MOA22
Mork
philk
stilespod
Tapwater
vintage


A thank you to everyone, and good luck for Round 2


I'll get into the feedback towards the Mix Challenge shortly...

Feedback in this thread addressed in "General Gossip" - if you have further ideas or concerns, please post them in there.
viewtopic.php?p=3233#p3233


I still highly encourage all participants to give feedback to each other. I try to update the statistics of MC048 (participant amount) ASAP.

fajebru wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 29, 2018 18:18 CEST

Wizzo wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 29, 2018 17:50 CEST

For me no evaluation no participation next time ! don't know what other members think ! good luck for R2 guys .

I totally understand your complain! But I have to say, that the time I would have to spend to write out an evaluation for 70 mixes, is something I don‘t have. But I thought, it’s still better than having the song pool running dry
Since I am no professional engineer, my commentary doesn’t count more than any of yours! So I highly recommend giving each other feedback as well!
To me this forum is about learning about mixing and it’s a way to get your hands on mixing material.

I am really sorry and I truly understand what you think! But don’t waste the opportunity that this forum still gives you. Even without my poorly given feedback!

I have an idea. Since we are encouraged to give feedback to each other and I hope to get some feedback myself, I am going to give feedback to the two submissions before mine and the two after mine in the thread. I hope I will inspire some others to do the same. If everyone else does the same then everyone will get feedback from 4 different sets of ears and nobody has to work too hard. I'm just a guy who likes music, not a professional engineer, so take everything with a grain of salt. This is just what jumped out at me listening to your submissions:

papilito (MRB24Bit): Please title your file correctly The first thing I hear is the sidechained compression from the bass drum. It is overdone and distracting. Try using less of it or a quicker release. The track as a whole is overcompressed as well. Compare your waveform to many of the others in the contest and you'll see what I mean. I like the guitar and bass in the first verse. The vocals sound overly distorted. I would make the distorted guitars during the chorus farther apart and less sibilant. Bridge is well done, although maybe it could use a little lower level on the vocal delay.

Logan Scott: Nice and warm intro, although I think the snare has too much bottom (wires) in it. Toms sound good. Everything sounds pretty well-balanced frequency wise, but it sounds a little claustrophobic during the verses and I can't put my finger on why. (Maybe a mid-side balance issue?) Vocals momentarily get too loud right before the second chorus (volume automation error?). Good idea to add reverb to the vocals during the chorus but I think you added too much. Good bridge. Outro lacks brightness. Also note that your distorted guitar information is almost all in the sides. People listening in mono will barely hear them. Would have preferred a little ringing at the end instead of cutting everything off abruptly.

Hyphe: Real laid back in the beginning. I think the bass is good but a little too loud. The vocals get a little lost behind everything else. Too much wire (bottom) in the snares. I would have preferred a subbier bass drum (less boxy, less room sound). I hear the distorted guitar chatter as it cuts off in the left speaker heading into the bridge - that should have been removed. Bridge is fine and outro sounds pretty good. If anything it's a little too heavy around 3k.

JonasLasse - Pretty good for 90 minutes Frequency balance is off, tilted too much toward the lower frequencies. If you brigthen it up a bit the snare will be more audible and I think the track would be in pretty good shape. I hear the distorted chatter as in Hyphe's entry. Not sure how I feel about having the clean guitars so loud in the choruses - I think it takes away from their energy. This track has the best treatment of the second-to-last line in the song that I've heard out of all the versions I've listened to (including my own, others in the thread, and the original mix). Seriously, I love how aggressive you made that line sound.

Perhaps the feedback should be hidden to all until Round 2, so that the artist is not tempted/influenced by other feedback????

I agree , Regardless of the wait time until end of round 2 .

@fajebru :

Thanx for the choice of my mix into the round 2.
quote :
"MOA22
great energy
upfront vocals and tasty fx use
the one thing I don't like is the snare
it needs more aggression, presence, whatever...anything that baaams
it makes makes the track lose some energy that the rest of the mix is actually transporting very well
toms are a bit loud here and there"

- Upfront vocals, ok maybe a bit too much, probably more dynamic control would be better.
- You didn't like the snare, the way it sounds is exactly what I wanted. More punch, quite easy because I cutted it a lot
on the top snare mic, just because I though the kit didn't need more. But I just need to know if my snare's low is OK
or not, I managed to provide a very bassy one.
For the toms, I totally agree. Just because the drummer is hitting them with a huge velocity range, and I didn't want a
low threshold.

For the comments about the "overprocessed drums", the contest's introduction was talking about huge/upfront and more processed drums than usual.

And for the lack of hi end/destroyed hi end, bright mixes sometimes (often) win, and for me the challenge is to be able to listen to a
mix loud, without beingd agressed by the cymbals.
I often put a 1 or 2 db hi-shelf reduction over 4 or 6 k into my masterbus to adjust the general tonal balance when I start to reference a mix.

Good luck to everybody !

So
here is my revision.

Tried to add more presence and clarity to the snare, that results with more hit hat too. Recovered the attack of it.
Added a distressor comp on the drums bus (smashed) parallel at 12% to make it breath more.

Tried to improve the general gain of the vocal track to fix some power jumps.

And I dealed with the amount of toms too.

I am no more shy with the "sustain" verb on the choruses and at the ending.

Finally the delay fx on vocals (automated during the bridge, and present during the whole ending) is a bit louder now.

Good luck, and thanx for the great moment mixing that nice song.

wav
mp3

At Wizzo

Loved your mix, the tremolo/delay during the bridge is a nice idea.
Nice drums too, subtle hi hat, mine is brutal and distorted (as I wanted). Just a fatter snare would have been better for me.
Perfect control of the hits generally.

You should have more control on the amount of vocals maybe.
Clean low mid !

I definitely need the use of the guitar's DI tracks during with another amp to make it bigger.

The clean guitars are too loud during the verses and the ending for me, so there is a loss of power there.

Other than that, I wouldn't say your mix isn't better or worse than mine, just very different.

Congrats for the mix, one of my favourites.


At Bullshit Bastard

Your bass needs a correction in the low mid.The bass is too upfront
Strange pan choice for the drums (hihat+toms) for me.
The client was maybe looking for a bigger snare.
The clean guitars are too far.
Generally your mix needs more ambiance/room or reverb.
Dry but good vocals.
Other than that, good balance.

MOA22