Mix Challenge

Thanks Mr. Fox! I would take T-Racks one!

Congrats to the winners, and I am learning something from many mixes here.
I miss Mr. DPP, shoutout and thanks again, though perhaps he expected something different.

After the fact, I'd like to say, it is instructive and right, to discuss the "fall-out".
The studio team, session musicians etc. of course will critically discuss the artist.
It depends, but practically the creative process turns out best, when it is bidirectional, except perhaps with artists like Prince, who often played all instruments, and even mixed part of his work, and some attending engineer had only a technical task.
In my own ears, the artist has to compete with every artist I have ever listened to. And then, I try to do something useful to help her/him in that competition, and we approach the project together.

So, this is the difficult part here, though we might be able to make it more intense. A song contributor won't be able to answer 160 questions, which is two by each of 80 participants.
But still, at the beginning, it is marketing. Will I make a bid at all? Spend hours for hours? So I want to know, before I make a guess and a suggestion. This can't be top down. I won't bid, and also I see the whole undertaking as highly collaborative, when we look back at the history of the mixtrack pool. What comes in, has room to improve.

Objective quality of the result should be the goal. If possible, reflect the ideas of the artists as much as possible, naturally this is duty.
But for a portfolio and mixing career, quality, accessibility, and a decision about do we make a "ball park" sound, or something deliberately exotic, will come first. When I choose a mixing or mastering engineer, I would judge if I like the majority of his artists, but the point is not about the highest level of art, but about how close are these results to my own ideas.
Thus, the portfolio will probably show the personality of the engineer, and the quality of the results. Famous names are always good, but then also, how expensive are these 2 percent of the million studios around?



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I would like to understand where that Traveling Wilburys idea comes from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o4s1KVJaVA
Now there is definitely a strong and carrying kick in there, and gosh these guys can deliver a tight groove and a guitar solo.

The strong and dissonant electronic sounds, the missing bass, the vocals, and also the absence of classically arranged, virtuous guitar playing, which creates a sensible task of sorting out tones and notes, and the totally different groove and emotion, this beams the whole 058 project into a totally different, "other" universe. It is more like a collage or Impressionist painting. And I liked it.
I mean, it is exotic and creative, I could as well cite The Can, or Frank Zappa.
The material to me is not a one-way road. It can find many many totally different expressions, and this is not a flaw but a potential, that should not frighten the artist (in case).

(I recently worked with a guy who sees things similar as DPP, as far as quotes allow to guess that, but it is important we have been knowing each other well since 30 years. He played and sung almost every track of his album. And he was very meticulous about every detail, but also, it was required to take the project to a higher level of quality, and so we had to intensely discuss about a thousand ideas, how they would contribute, or how they would take his music into a wrong direction. In the end, he was very happy with what we could achieve. But it took time, it could never have been an "industry" approach.)

In my own judgement with 058 I succeeded partially, as it sounds quite nice in the car, but still there is bad ringing in the vocals around 6k, and some guitars should come a bit louder and more defined, and the slide guitar needs another multiband comp and lowpass to not screech out at certain moments.
There should be more depth, and for this, some sounds should be kept a bit in a darker area.

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So, what I would like to know, how did everyone think about the classic vs. experimental approach, regarding sorting out the electonics and guitar notes and soli?
Because I'm a Rock'n'Roll and Joseph Haydn guy, who happens to love experimental and dissonant Progressive Rock and electronica also. Though, no Jazz that is more modern than Miles Davis, but vintage Swing is lovely.
Should we emphasize straight rockin' chords, or competing and neighboring single notes that crowd a certain frequency range ?
It is in other contest projects also. One guitar plays e.g. chord A major, the other plays D major (and there's no Jazz), so perhaps one should be muted, as the player missed the chord change in the sound sheet that does not even exist? Or why should it sound like that? Should we consider re-tracking?
When a Sony A&R rushes in and wants a mix for an established artist, I know that every sound and note is deliberate. But when I sit in the deepest province, and a songwriter from the next village shows up with a low budget project, we need to make clear where the level of all those required chops and skills is actually at. My comrade could trust me and tell me he wouldn't deliver a guitar solo at the level of George Harrison, and still we must do something coherent and beautiful, and we sorted out things, and he was lauded for that. Simple, but clear and beautiful, and deep.

A seasoned full time engineer would make a decent guess and suggestion, and wait for what comes back.
But for an instructive forum, where also beginners take part, I believe this is definietely an issue to learn about.

Would be a shame to let such a huge and detailed post go to waste. Lemme add my 2 cents.

White Punk OD wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:41 CET

So, what I would like to know, how did everyone think about the classic vs. experimental approach, regarding sorting out the electonics and guitar notes and soli?

I hope I understood your question correctly. I guess I go by feel, and decide which element of the song is the meat and which is the dressing. In this case the track had a clear Americana vibe, so the guitars had to be more prominent than the synth strings and the Ebows. So if we're talking classic vs experimental, they didn't really clash here. MC059 was a lot trickier in this regard – in that track I was just building a soundscape by taste alone.

White Punk OD wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:41 CET

Should we emphasize straight rockin' chords, or competing and neighboring single notes that crowd a certain frequency range ?
It is in other contest projects also. One guitar plays e.g. chord A major, the other plays D major (and there's no Jazz), so perhaps one should be muted, as the player missed the chord change in the sound sheet that does not even exist? Or why should it sound like that? Should we consider re-tracking?
When a Sony A&R rushes in and wants a mix for an established artist, I know that every sound and note is deliberate.

I don't remember fixing any performance mistakes in this song, but normally if I hear any – I don't hesitate to cut/mute/tune. When there is a part that conflicts with something else in the song, it's sometimes possible to find a level at which it doesn't sound too abrasive. By default I think that everything that's been recorded is deliberate. And of course it depends on the context of the song – what the bass is doing, where the melody goes and so on.

A and D may not be so horrible together. If you stack an A-major chord on top of a D-major, you get a beautiful Dmaj7add9. But I see what you're saying. If there's a clear mistake, I just find the right chord somewhere else on the track and paste it in. You always have to be ready to justify that move if asked, and maybe even change it back.

In my opinion, most of the points you raised boil down to just taste. And having a developed taste is an asset if you're a mix engineer, so why be afraid to use it?