Mix Challenge

Hi everyone, Here's some feedback for some randomly chosen mixes I had a close listen to. A bit about me; just so you know where this is coming from. I am a semi professional musician. I record and mix my own stuff and sell my CDs at my performances (difficult over COVID. (Yes some people still buy CDs)). In terms of mixing it's as much a hobby as anything else. This feedback is for my own listening practice so take it all with a grain of salt.

@grigoal Like the reverb/s on the big vocal harmonies and the contrast between this and the smaller ambience on the main vocal when it is solo. Creates a real sense of space. The snare and hi-hat are nice and up-front which I like but it sounds a bit like the drum kit is right in front of me and everything else is further back. I like the darker tone on the vocals ( more in keeping with an old school sound rather than a brighter modern sound) which don’t get lost because other elements like the piano and guitars are also not masking it in the 1 to 4 kHz region. Problem is this also adds the the upfront sound of the drum kit because it is really left alone to take up those hi frequencies. I’m not sure that the added ’megalomaniacs’ work; just sounds a bit random. Generally I think a nice overall balance nothing pokes out; though as the mix progresses and more elements come in the piano gets a bit buried.

@Dodgingrain Nice bright mix. Also I think the kick and bass are working really well together in this mix; Its clear and punchy; I kind of wish it was louder in the mix. I like the snare also. The solo vocal part is clear and bright; maybe just a bit too much around 1khz for my taste. I think there is a nice consistent sense of space in this mix such that I can imagine the space I’m in when listening.

@FrequencyPainter This mix is a journey through spaces; Small rooms big rooms and voices coming from a radio. A darker mix but that probably suits the vibe of it and allows for that big low end punch on the stomps, Although I think there could be a bit more of the mid low thwack around 200hz on those stomps. I like the vocal level; it sits in the mix but not buried.

@Hiwatter Great vocal sound. not harsh but nice and bright. Really enjoy the reverb automation on the vocal, maybe just a tad too much in the bit just after the lyrics “darkness can bring us…” I like the tonal balance across the spectrum of this mix. And the kick and bass work well together. The stomps are good but I still think like a lot of mixes I’ve heard some more mid-lows 100 to 300 hz would add more of that low thwack.

@Square Nice bright mix. Hard to fault. Really enjoyable listen. Probably the clearest mix I’ve heard. The only slight thing is that I think the main vocal could have just a bit more high frequency sparkle; comparing to Hiwatter vocal who I think has nailed this element.

RodA wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:58 CEST

@FrequencyPainter This mix is a journey through spaces; Small rooms big rooms and voices coming from a radio. A darker mix but that probably suits the vibe of it and allows for that big low end punch on the stomps, Although I think there could be a bit more of the mid low thwack around 200hz on those stomps. I like the vocal level; it sits in the mix but not buried.

Hi,

Thanks for listening. I kept the mix rather mellow in the mids, trying to adhere to the instruction to make a 70ies mix. I referenced to "Leave the door open" by Bruno Mars. https://open.spotify.com/track/7MAibcTl ... e419b9428e If this is a good thing or not, I don't know anymore, enough mixing for now I'm just curious what Endicott thinks of it all... it's all just so taste dependent. In all, a pure 70ies mix was not possible IMHO because there were some anachronisms in the arrangement/recordings.

I went and listened to your mix too. It's so difficult to comment, there're no rules and all depends on taste. I was just wondering about some things when listening:

I don't know, maybe the big bass is a bit too much.
Per Endicott's instruction the choruses should stand out, I miss this a bit in your mix. Maybe use some more L&R and level contrast between verse and chorus?
I like the overall balancing. Maybe just the crash sticks out a bit too much?

Just my two cents.
Cheers,
FP

Frequency Painter wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 23, 2021 14:55 CEST

It's so difficult to comment, there're no rules and all depends on taste. I was just wondering about some things when listening:

I don't know, maybe the big bass is a bit too much.
Per Endicott's instruction the choruses should stand out, I miss this a bit in your mix. Maybe use some more L&R and level contrast between verse and chorus?
I like the overall balancing. Maybe just the crash sticks out a bit too much?

Just my two cents.
Cheers,
FP

You’re right it is very subjective. Having listened to other mixes there are things I would change but I’m reasonably happy except for being disqualified for going over -1db. Dumb thing is I knew I’d forgotten that as soon as I posted

RodA wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 25, 2021 14:52 CEST

You’re right it is very subjective. Having listened to other mixes there are things I would change but I’m reasonably happy except for being disqualified for going over -1db. Dumb thing is I knew I’d forgotten that as soon as I posted

Yes, that's a bummer. Next time better. I've been kicked out for some stupid shit too, it happens. I think your mix would have been a good contender for the next round.

@RodA

thanks for the listen and feedback, if I were to take some of the low mids i have on the vox and trade them down to my lows of the bass guitar a tad bit and if the added range contrast doesnt pull the top end out of the vox enough, i could add a .5dB (ish) high shelf on them. This would (probably) do the trick.

cheers!

@RodA

Also one of the best tips for loudness i was ever given, that i use on every project, is to drop all of my tracks -10dB (using a gain plug) before even doing any gain staging to give me tons of dynamic space to work with and this can knock out many of the overs right away, after that, if compression and standard processing etc doesnt tame the peaks (or isnt wanted/needed) using a good peak limiter on the individual track(s) is helpful, with one on the master if needed or as a safety net to make sure that nothing else comes through if you are getting close to or are slightly over the optimal peak, but i think that with how close your peaks were to 0 that it would have possibly caused some noticable differences/artifacts if one was just applied on the 2buss before export, but not neccessarily. I find that WLMPlus is a good all around meter and the peak limiter included (to me) is quite unintrusive most of the time, other than the natural 'dulling' sound of losing some peaks if its quite over at times, but im sure most will work quite well.

hope that helps

Square wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 23:41 CEST

@RodA

Also one of the best tips for loudness i was ever given, that i use on every project, is to drop all of my tracks -10dB (using a gain plug) before even doing any gain staging to give me tons of dynamic space to work with and this can knock out many of the overs right away, after that, if compression and standard processing etc doesnt tame the peaks (or isnt wanted/needed) using a good peak limiter on the individual track(s) is helpful, with one on the master if needed or as a safety net to make sure that nothing else comes through if you are getting close to or are slightly over the optimal peak, but i think that with how close your peaks were to 0 that it would have possibly caused some noticable differences/artifacts if one was just applied on the 2buss before export, but not neccessarily. I find that WLMPlus is a good all around meter and the peak limiter included (to me) is quite unintrusive most of the time, other than the natural 'dulling' sound of losing some peaks if its quite over at times, but im sure most will work quite well.

hope that helps

Good advice. I tend to just start with faders at -9. Yes, I also put a peak limiter on the output( not to limit just for safety but the default is 0db and I forgot to change it to -1 before I bounced. Oh well

damn that sucks, also, the advantage to using a gain plug first and not the faders is that the reduction will be pre fader at the beginning of the signal chain and will be the level that leads into your compressor etc this helps keep everything in check and within optimal ranges for your gear and plugs and then you can use the faders for finer adjustments and gain staging, this will give you optimal control with much less worry about overs even without a TP limiter, which tbh if it is forced to kick in at any point when its set at 0 you will absolutely be losing some quality of your peaks (can be quite noticable on the snare when it suddenly loses its pop or snap and doesnt cut the same), plus this helps to ensure theres a bit more headroom for the mastering stage

Square wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:53 CEST

the advantage to using a gain plug first and not the faders is that the reduction will be pre fader at the beginning of the signal chain and will be the level that leads into your compressor etc this helps keep everything in check and within optimal ranges for your gear and plugs

Good point

RodA wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 27, 2021 03:36 CEST

Square wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 26, 2021 23:41 CEST

@RodA

Also one of the best tips for loudness i was ever given, that i use on every project, is to drop all of my tracks -10dB (using a gain plug) before even doing any gain staging to give me tons of dynamic space to work with and this can knock out many of the overs right away, after that, if compression and standard processing etc doesnt tame the peaks (or isnt wanted/needed) using a good peak limiter on the individual track(s) is helpful, with one on the master if needed or as a safety net to make sure that nothing else comes through if you are getting close to or are slightly over the optimal peak, but i think that with how close your peaks were to 0 that it would have possibly caused some noticable differences/artifacts if one was just applied on the 2buss before export, but not neccessarily. I find that WLMPlus is a good all around meter and the peak limiter included (to me) is quite unintrusive most of the time, other than the natural 'dulling' sound of losing some peaks if its quite over at times, but im sure most will work quite well.

hope that helps

Good advice. I tend to just start with faders at -9. Yes, I also put a peak limiter on the output( not to limit just for safety but the default is 0db and I forgot to change it to -1 before I bounced. Oh well

Interesting. Are you guys using faders that have peak and RMS meters as you mix? It's extremely helpful to monitor the RMS of each channel, way way way more useful than seeing the peaks. Same goes for the busses, effects and master. I set up my gain so that the RMS value of each channel is between -12 and -18. I never, ever have to use a limiter on a channel and I only need to use compression to sculpt sound, not raise or lower the volume drastically. Generally I only place a limiter on the master bus as a safety while mixing, I remove it before making my final master buss adjustments and exporting a track. I've found that this technique provides me with a mix that is almost always at the volume I want before mastering. Loud, clear with enough room to do some EQing and other changes before export. It's a huge time saver. Really helpful when trying to get mixes as close to -16 as possible for this mix challenge.

Studio One is great for this technique, no plugins required. You can add a gain pot and phase switch to the top of each channel, set all metering to peak/RMS and change the master bus to any K scale you like. I tend to swap between k20 and k14.

Here's a quick 6 min video that breaks the process down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqfxziSgZqY