Mix Challenge

Hi all,

I liked the song from the first listen and I tried to create a sonic space with the voice and drums in the foreground, the guitars and synths filling the surrounding space.
All the tracks were grouped with similar instrument, so I have a bus for the drum, guitars, voice and synths towards a mixbus. In addition a sub frequencies bus is sent directly to the output without going through the mixbus so as not to stress the compressor on the mixbus.
Most of the time was spent panning the guitars and other mix elements. Time alignment between the doubled tracks was also challenging; done where useful to the overall groove.

In detail:
all the bus tracks were compressed and EQ . For kick and snare I used a parallel compression in order to obtain punch and tone. the drum bus has other compressors such as ssl for glue, shadow to add groove and punch.
I created a bus for the sub frequencies through two auxiliaries, using db comp and an equalizer to refine the sound.
The guitars have a compressor (api2500) and an equalizer (I use the Cubase plugin) in each bus. The compressor has automation on the musical figure performed by the specific guitar
I split the main vocal into verse, pre-chorus, chorus and used different compressors and automated equalizers as needed.
3 reverbs: short for drums and vocals, medium for guitars and vocals, long for ensemble, synths and backing voices.
I used dynamic equalization a lot

My Link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oNWj4V ... share_link

It is the 25th October 2023, 00:05 UTC+2/CEST - the first Mix Round has officially ended

Another very warm welcome to all new participants, nice meeting you and I hope you'll enjoy your stay. I am confident that some of you found the way over from LEaT Con, and some might be from the Sonic State Discord server still. But as usual, a huge thank you to everyone that is spreading the word about the Mix Challenge.

Please also help get the Songwriting Competition as popular (SWC074 is currently in the voting process, SWC075 will start on 01-NOV-2023).


STATISTICS:

• If I didn't miscount, we have 80 submissions this month (80 prior to the deadline, plus 01 after the deadline, not counting re-submissions -- additionally: 51 entries prior to the original deadline, 29 more entries with the extended deadline)
• We have 0 submissions after the deadline (as of 25-OCT-2023 0:10 UTC+2/CEST)
• We have 0 submission that could not be downloaded by the time of this post and is therefore disqualified (re-checked 25-OCT-2023 0:10 UTC+2/CEST)
• We have 0 submissions not submitted in public, but via PM (see Rule Book, post #6, Upload and Submission Guidelines)
• We have 0 submissions that have been withdrawn (entry counts as "submission within the deadline")
• Overview of Submissions - is your entry within given parameters? (PDF - updated: 30-OCT-2023 11:10 UTC+1/CET, full sheet)
• Overview of Submissions (disqualifications only) (PDF - updated: updated: 30-OCT-2023 11:10 UTC+1/CET)

INFORMATION:
Statistic Sheets have been updated (on 28-OCT-2023 19:31 UTC+2/CEST)
Statistic Sheets are not available yet, please wait for the official announcement post -- sheets will arrive by mid 27-OCT-2023 latest
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⚠	Moderation Message from Mister Fox
	Important Update: As of MC081, the Song Providers can now decide from the start, or once the Statistics Sheet has been provided, which route to go in terms of providing feedback. You can read more about this in the Mix Challenge - changes to main game (October 2021) thread. Our Song Provider for this month, @BenjiRage, decided to go the "(Feedback for) Top 15" route. There might be additional feedback, but this is not a guarantee. We will keep you updated.

.


I now open the field for everyone to give each other feedback (highly encouraged). This will be independent to the client feedback however.


Please watch this spot for the statistics sheet, client feedback and Mix Round 2 participant announcement.

Good luck to all participants.





The Songwriting Competition 074 (SWC072) is in the voting period.

If you want to, please check out all 6 amazing entries. Outside feedback is always welcome (voting is not necessary). And if you like the overall concept, you're invited to join SWC075, starting 01-OCT-2023.

Please spread the word!

⚠	Moderation Message from Mister Fox
	Please note, the Song Pool is officially empty. Without new multi-tracks, there will be no more Mix(ing) Challenges in 2024. Only you can help. Please spread the word, or reach out yourself. Please read more through the following page: Mix Challenge - Song Pool Campaign

EDIT: 30-OCT-2023 11:10 UTC+1/CET - updated Statistic Sheet, see post #152 and post #180

Wow, 80 mixes! Thank you so much to everyone for participating, it's been amazing listening to them all and hearing how you've each interpreted the song in your own way. There have been so many creative entries I'm quite overwhelmed!

I've made the decision to give feedback to all 80 mixers, not just the Top 15. I feel it's only fair since you've all made the effort to do your mix, it's the least I can do.

I should have this completed and a Top 15 chosen by the time the statistics sheet arrives in a few days, so not too long to wait.

Once again, thank you all so much

Best

Ben

BenjiRage wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 25, 2023 00:32 CEST

...
I've made the decision to give feedback to all 80 mixers, not just the Top 15. I feel it's only fair since you've all made the effort to do your mix, it's the least I can do.
..
Once again, thank you all so much

Best

Ben

Thanks so much, I think it was a great experience to everyone involved.

Where did I perceive the challenge:

Altogether there were many little issues to check out, in a very dense production.
Consequently, I found out that I have to rest my ears after every bigger portion of work, else things get out of hand and become unbalanced.
Until we are ready with a good mix, the whole thing is fatiguing to the ears.
When we did well, it sounds pleasant and we can listen to it many times in a row and feel great.

The separated recordings of the drum kit -- win something and lose something.
For the lack of brass bleed and better control, we have to make up with creating a good integrity among the tracks, to get a compact drum kit together, that fits the genre.
I can't just use the regular formulas. I have to develop some individual treatment. with much much listening.
I used the crash cymbals as some form of independent musical gimmick, to signal the progress of the song structure.

There were many great mixes, that really rock.
But again and again, there was a lost kick, or a pung-tung snare that consists only of two frequencies: the ringing sine tone of the body, and some clicky stinging attack, that does not merge with the form of guitars presented here.
That sound is very common and goes as legit, but I think it did not fit that well.
I was referencing with the Godfathers, they have a clicky kick but quite a natural snare with 80ies gated reverb.

Often, the bass was lost in translation.
But I really wonder, how it sounds in a modern dolby game world that has only one woofer that goes up to 200Hz.
I mean, the two basses for the listener should have a traditional full-spectrum stereo speaker configuration, or headphones.
My main monitoring is now the X-65, and I totally loved the two-fold bass recording.

Another frequent issue was a trade-off between vocals and guitars.
Some mixes have full sounding bright "punk" guitars, but the vocal becomes brittle and harsh. Or boxy, after attempt to get some bass into it.
Others have the opposite, great vocals but guitars are kind of vacuum cleaner howl.
Nothing too bad, just exaggerating for the sake of clearer description, but when you listen 10 times, it comes out a bit less pleasant each time.

For me, vocals required meticulous clean-up, to stand against these massive guitars.
Then, good choice of at least 2 compressors, and quite some detailed automation for the flow.
Without having developed strong effective presets in earlier projects, I wouldn't have got that ready in weeks.
So, one procedure with detailed analysis on what we got (eg, Nova GE), and another one from experience, about the musical aspects of such a vocal, to mitigate the shouting and bring up the lower registers as well.
For additional vocals, search the detail - who had the excessive plosives, who sounded boxy, who is more with the shouting than with the tone, and treat and sort them into their places accordingly.
Not sure if my take was sufficient, but I hope that it achieved quite something.

For the "final scream", I cut that into an extra clip and used simple, static clip pitch and here we are.
That's the only thing I tuned.
It's totally missing in many mixes.

Some comrades did really great, and I learned a lot with listening to their work.
Good luck and let it rock again!

After randomly clicking into a mix here and there,
my feedback to a number of the respected participants:
I focus on aspects that could deserve a second thought, it's just in telegram style to keep it concise.
humble opinion only.

Pistolpete
dry but full sound!
comps are pushing some elements a bit off the dish
vc might become more stable with tweaks on comps and some finer automation
let's be careful with sharp cymbals

dodgingrain
snare could be sitting in the mix more consistently. it seems to float and fade at some moments.

SUC76
really very good. minor tweaks to consider.
snare base tone is singing much, can sometimes drown the vocals.
some more vocal automation might help. some vocal shouts are choking the master comp.
there seems a slow bus comp somewhere, that makes the guitars swimming or rocking like a boat, which makes the vc/git balance a bit unstable.

Bluesation
good vocals
guitars in the chorus have a bit of a vacuum cleaner appeal, but are coming out great in the solo and also intro.
I'm guilty of that myself, but yours seem pumping and floating a bit more.

ChristophK
very perfect, and well-developed concept.
chorus sounds a bit smashed, can lose texture.
I think bus compression is more than needed and eats away some dynamics, like instruments kicking in or do a cescendo in the intro, or for the chorus, or after the solo.

maxovrdrive
rocks great! good flow throughout the song. stable vocals.
minor tweaks to try:
lots of midrange here, deserves a mastering attempt to check out if it's coming out well when (theoretically) released.
I think the bus comp coughs and chokes at the first sound in the intro. maybe attack too slow, too much level difference to eat, something like that.
perhaps you can feed the first note/hit with a little lower volume and the issue won't get noticed any more.
base tone of the snare is singing a bit much, this sound might want to become a bit wider, with more surrounding from the adjacent frequency ranges.
kick is quite nice, bassGts and subsonics still might deserve a bit more attention.

EmClrk
good detail work,
but overall a little spectral issue, you might consider to adjust something in the monitoring.
esp. the drums, kick has a bit much of subsonics, and snare is a bit sharp.
resulting, there might be a dip in the lower midrange, but much upper mid and presence.
about depth, drums are a bit in the foreground for mentioned reasons, also masking and drowning the bass, but spectrally they might want to merge a bit more with the other instruments.

againstpower
instrumental work is very beautiful and well-balanced, but vocals in some parts are a bit boxy and deserve more clean-up.

take it lightly, it's just for further experimenting, all your decision.
You can't compare my comments from one mix to the next, and make it a _comparison_ of the mixes.
I'm just telling my fast impression of one mix, forgetting about all the others.

Hi all,
what I'm finding at the moment in these mix challenges is that

1) it's really important to stop listening to what you're doing and listen to something else as much as possible. I don't just mean reference tracks, but also proper breaks and plenty of short times when you stop the track.
Our brains really work against us a lot of the time and so it is necessary to know how long you have and how to tell when things have gone to the wall. I'm starting to think that we have a very short time indeed in which we can listen well. It's so difficult not to just do a session where you listen for 3 hours straight, barely ever stopping the track for very long. These kinds of sessions I suspect might be doomed to failure. Far worse still is listening too loud for 3 hours straight. I imagine if you do this, that the first 15 mins is probably just about ok and then the last 2 hours 45 mins is totally useless. I think this is one the most important things in mixing and it relates to number 2) also. When you crank up your mix to quite high levels it sounds so much better, but your ability to make the mix better is so much less. I feel like your brain corrects and changes your perceptions more when the music is louder. If that's the case then it's game over trying to mix at high levels.

and

2) it's vital to eradicate the tendency to get tricked by little moves making the audio slightly louder.
Firstly auto-gain is the best solution to this and make sure you use as many plugins with this feature as possible. When you don't have auto gain, you need to spend plenty of time doing a manual gain match. It might seem tedious or repetitive doing this over and over again, but I strongly believe now that without this again, it's game over. Related to this is learning how to listen when you've just increased one of the faders. "I think we need more guitar" you say to yourself. But if you listen to the track before and after, concentrating on the guitar, of course you conclude the move was good and mainly because there is no auto-gain in this process and we've made the whole thing louder by increasing one element. So possibly the way to deal with this is increase the guitar while listening to the remainder of the track. Listen to the vocal while you increase the guitar. Was it a good move?


I found myself thinking of these two things throughout this months mix challenge and I hope you find this a useful thought for your own progress.
Cheers all and good luck.

BenjiRage wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 25, 2023 00:32 CEST

Wow, 80 mixes! Thank you so much to everyone for participating, it's been amazing listening to them all and hearing how you've each interpreted the song in your own way. There have been so many creative entries I'm quite overwhelmed!

I've made the decision to give feedback to all 80 mixers, not just the Top 15. I feel it's only fair since you've all made the effort to do your mix, it's the least I can do.

I should have this completed and a Top 15 chosen by the time the statistics sheet arrives in a few days, so not too long to wait.

Once again, thank you all so much

Best

Ben

Hi Ben, really cool you are going to give feedback to all mixes. That is a lot of work but you give everybody a chance to learn something and improve their mixes. So really appreciated!

Have fun with choosing the top 15.

Cheers,

Jeroen

BenjiRage wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 25, 2023 00:32 CEST

Wow, 80 mixes! Thank you so much to everyone for participating, it's been amazing listening to them all and hearing how you've each interpreted the song in your own way. There have been so many creative entries I'm quite overwhelmed!

I've made the decision to give feedback to all 80 mixers, not just the Top 15. I feel it's only fair since you've all made the effort to do your mix, it's the least I can do.

I should have this completed and a Top 15 chosen by the time the statistics sheet arrives in a few days, so not too long to wait.

Once again, thank you all so much

Best

Ben

That's no easy task. Thank you

Thank you BenjiRage for confirming my link works and for your will to give feedback for everyone. For sure we don't take it for granted. On my side, I didn't have as much time as I wish I had for this challenge, but it will be interesting to know whether it served me or not as I tend to spend hours in details, which may not always be for the good. With every challenge I try to improve my efficiency but this is my biggest struggle. Probably also because I like trying new techniques / plugins and don't stick with one approach.

This was a very good song to mix and I enjoyed it a lot. I think it was hard to let all instruments stick out with such a density. I was not so used to this genre. I'm looking forward to listen to others mixes, as it is this way I learn the most. I don't do it before submitting to avoid being confused with so many possibilities.

Good luck to every participant and to Benji for the long listening sessions. Love this community!

I'm always amazed of how different my mix sounds depending on what I hear before it. Do you feel the same? It's scary how our brain adjusts.