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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC098 June 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2024 13:16 CEST
by dstra
Hi, I switched completely to Linux over 10 years ago and can no longer imagine going back to proprietary software. Initially, I missed some native audio tools on this platform. In the meantime, these gaps have all been closed. The developer of the LSP plugins in particular is very open to suggestions for new plugins and improvements.

@kombainera
[..]at some point the gui start to sluggih very very badly to the point that i just cant work.
I once had a similar problem. If you are using plugins from Calf, these are most likely the cause. I was able to solve the problem by changing the GUI style of the Calf plugins to the old version "Calf 0.0.19" (Calf JACK Host -> Preferences -> Style). The Ardour team recommends not using the Calf plugins at all, as they use an outdated graphics toolkit and are no longer maintained.

@elements
I think I had a few issues getting Bitwig to run properly without buffer over runs and such.
In addition to the tips from @sthauge, another one: To achieve very low latencies without Xruns, the CPU should be prevented from dynamically reducing the clock rate (e.g. with the cpupower-gui tool or via the BIOS). Otherwise, the CPU governor often reacts too slowly to increase the clock rate again in the event of short-term high DSP demand, which can lead to Xruns.

I hope this makes it easier to switch to a Linux DAW. :smile:

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC098 June 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 04:14 CEST
by elements
dstra wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2024 13:16 CEST
Hi, I switched completely to Linux over 10 years ago and can no longer imagine going back to proprietary software. Initially, I missed some native audio tools on this platform. In the meantime, these gaps have all been closed. The developer of the LSP plugins in particular is very open to suggestions for new plugins and improvements.

@kombainera
[..]at some point the gui start to sluggih very very badly to the point that i just cant work.
I once had a similar problem. If you are using plugins from Calf, these are most likely the cause. I was able to solve the problem by changing the GUI style of the Calf plugins to the old version "Calf 0.0.19" (Calf JACK Host -> Preferences -> Style). The Ardour team recommends not using the Calf plugins at all, as they use an outdated graphics toolkit and are no longer maintained.

@elements
I think I had a few issues getting Bitwig to run properly without buffer over runs and such.
In addition to the tips from @sthauge, another one: To achieve very low latencies without Xruns, the CPU should be prevented from dynamically reducing the clock rate (e.g. with the cpupower-gui tool or via the BIOS). Otherwise, the CPU governor often reacts too slowly to increase the clock rate again in the event of short-term high DSP demand, which can lead to Xruns.

I hope this makes it easier to switch to a Linux DAW. :smile:
Thanks for the extra tips. This is something I will look into further.

Nice mix, by the way…

MIX CHALLENGE - MC098 June 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 06:30 CEST
by Mister Fox
:arrow_right: The "Overview of Submissions" PDFs have been uploaded.
You can check them through the upper post (post #128).



The Statistic Sheet is used to give an overview of all entries, and whether or not they are within given parameters (loudness, sampling rate, bitrate, proper filename). This is adding to the overall learning process of the "Mix(ing) Challenge". Please take note that creating this sheet is not a fully automated process. I am using Wavelab 10's "Batch Analysis" tool (EBU R-128 specs / equivalent to ITU-R BS.1770-4), but the overall layout and highlighting issues/mishaps, not to mention triple checking files and time stamps, is time consuming. If you do not find yourself on this list, please let me know.

:arrow_right: Please keep in mind, your mix being "tagged disqualified", does not mean "you're out of the game" (exceptions do apply). For more information on the Statistic Sheet and the "Wild Card" Mechanic, please consult the following addendum thread:

Mix Challenge - Addendum: Statistic Sheet and Wild Card Mechanic



:arrow_right: Statistics Addendum:
 ⚠ Moderation Message from Mister Fox  
We have a disqualification rate of 28,42% for June 2024 (95 entries, 27 disqualifications, 0 "Out of Competition" submission not counting).

As usual, many of these disqualifications are due to not paying attention to detail (careless mistakes), e.g.: wrong sampling rate or bitrate, loudness specs, lack of documentation, and not properly using the provided filename template (also see the provided "TL;DR Rules.txt" file, etc).

On average (32 months of tracking), we currently have a disqualification rate of 25,90% (compared to last game's 25,78% avg), the rate is increasing again. The disqualification rate over the course of the last 12 games (August 2022 to June 2024) is about 26,99% (previously 25,78%), and is also increasing again. This is also due to the fact, that the participation amount went from 48 in February, to 88 in April, to 95 in June.

I strongly recommend all participants to pay more attention to details in future games.



:arrow_right: A commentary on this month's entries:

I once more extend my welcome to all new participants who have found their way into our little community, and I'm also happy to see users return that haven't done so in many months. I hope this Mix(ing) Challenge was once more exciting and you enjoy your stay - maybe even for more games to come.

As announced in MC097 / April - future detailed "follow-up posts" will now be a rare occurrence. So I will try to keep things short, to the point, and only talk about the outliers this month.

There are three entries that were fully "tagged OUT" (no chance to advance) due to the fact, that they either used Drum Sample Replacement (which is not allowed), were non sanctioned re-uploads, and/or "no longer accessible" by the time the deadline has been reached.

Sadly, 10 participants didn't pay attention regarding file format distribution (most notably the bitrate). About 8 users still can not simply copy/paste/edit the provided filename template either. Another topic was the song length. That means, not only were the Rules and Guidelines (post #006, Upload and Submission Guidelines, 13th bullet point) ignored, but also the TL;DR Rules in both the forum form and Mix Pack bundled TXT, what was mentioned and highlighted in post #001, and the additional summary with the newly established post #003 to prevent recurring "mistakes" like this.

Some entries in the the Statistic Sheets have additional commentary like "Arrangement Alterations". In case of @VolTheProducer's entry, vocal compoing (as in: the technique to re-combine different vocal takes) was used to fix a vocal section towards the end of the song. Since these corrected parts were taken from other/previous takes, this would result in a change of the arrangement. Yes, even though you can not really hear that change in the final product. After some back-and-forth behind the scenes, I made an executive decision and marked this entry as "tagged disqualified" (it can therefore advance into Mix Round 2 with the help of using up a Wild Card, should the Song Provider select this entry). With @Gunnar's and @ggibson1988's entries, I have actually been very lenient, as the vocal takes were handled like the usual "bass clone / frequency split" trick to add "some more" to the chorus sections. These are the same parts, just "doubled" and not taken from a different section of the song. Unless I misunderstood the documentation and my ears fooled me. I can only go by the provided documentation and listening to the entry.

There were additional conversations behind the scenes regarding possible pitch shifting and single hit alterations of the provided drum recording.
It was decided that one main focus for this game was on "creating a pleasing and coherent drum sound". There will be no penalties for those who went a bit more "wild". This topic might be handled different in the future (it's always a case-by-case basis).


:arrow_right: To close this out.

I am more than overjoyed with the participation amount. The disqualification rate of about 25% to 27% on avg seem to be a staple for the Mix Challenge now. Still, a lot of these mishaps didn't need to happen. At least this month, nearly all entries have been accessible.

A huge thank you to everyone that invested time with this month's game. And also a huge thank you to everyone that keeps spreading the word about the Mix Challenge. I hope you could learn something, and had fun in the process.

See you in the next challenge. :headphones:
.




:information_source: I now (re-)open the field for everyone to give each other feedback (highly encouraged). This will be independent to the client feedback however. Though please note - criticism on the rule set and angry posts will be deleted without further notice.


Please watch this spot for the client feedback and Mix Round 2 participant announcement.

This will ideally happen sometime within the next 14 days (starting tomorrow).

We (as in: the Song Provider and I) will keep you updated, and of course send out appropriate reminder newsletters!




EDIT: 28-JUN-2024 06:30 UTC+2/CEST - initial post

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC098 June 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 09:56 CEST
by DSBotez
I do not know how in the world I got a bit rate of 15 bits, so I should definitely review my mix bus, but I was aiming for 16 as it was the format provided, I am new to the Mix challenge and only now discovered that the "rules" files attached to the download is specific to the song rather than just a txt copy of the rules on the forum. However it makes no sense to convert a 16bit sample to 24Bit in post production phase and there is furthermore no need for 24 bit in this case. However, Toodles, Rules are rules, see you all with the next song submission (where I will be sure to read the attached file).

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC098 June 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 12:01 CEST
by zed999
DSBotez wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2024 09:56 CEST
I do not know how in the world I got a bit rate of 15 bits, so I should definitely review my mix bus, but I was aiming for 16 as it was the format provided, I am new to the Mix challenge and only now discovered that the "rules" files attached to the download is specific to the song rather than just a txt copy of the rules on the forum. However it makes no sense to convert a 16bit sample to 24Bit in post production phase and there is furthermore no need for 24 bit in this case. However, Toodles, Rules are rules, see you all with the next song submission (where I will be sure to read the attached file).
You got 15 bits by limiting/compressing/clipping (?) either the entire mix or perhaps the separate elements then turning it down to be under -16 LUFS. In doing so you ended up with -7 dBTP and lost the bit. A little less of whatever you did so that you were above -6dBTP and you'd have made it.

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC098 June 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 12:20 CEST
by quaint twang
Not seeing the error on my file name. Any suggestions? No spaces even though there are spaces in the name?

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC098 June 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 12:30 CEST
by jw_
quaint twang wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2024 12:20 CEST
Not seeing the error on my file name. Any suggestions? No spaces even though there are spaces in the name?
You're missing some doubling of underscores. Should be "MC098__Arnwyn__Robot_Baby__quaint twang.wav" instead of "MC098_Arnwyn_Robot_Baby_quaint twang.wav"

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC098 June 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 12:34 CEST
by quaint twang
wow. thanks!

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC098 June 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2024 14:40 CEST
by White Punk OD
DSBotez wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2024 09:56 CEST
..... However it makes no sense to convert a 16bit sample to 24Bit in post production phase and there is furthermore no need for 24 bit in this case. However, Toodles, Rules are rules, see you all with the next song submission (where I will be sure to read the attached file).
the audio rendering engine in a DAW has to do gazillions of multiplications, and therefor the highest possible internal math resolution should always be used, and from there you can dither down to 24bit, and the quality will be better than at 16.
engineering means to know what an engineer knows. Let us all strive for good and rich knowledge. I seek to know more myself as well.

topic to move:
should we deactivate hyperthreading on windows DAW systems? does it need a change in BIOS settings?

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC098 June 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2024 08:31 CEST
by LowlandsWave
quaint twang wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2024 12:20 CEST
Not seeing the error on my file name. Any suggestions? No spaces even though there are spaces in the name?
Filename format is in the first post ... copy - paste - change user name, "Kind kan de was doen"