Mix Challenge

Posted: **Sun Jan 05, 2025 14:36 CET**

Many thanks Mellow Browne for the extremely high quality of the review of all mixes.
I'm 100% in agreement with your comments and constructive feedback of my mix.
All the best to participants who pass to Round 2.
Cheers,
pabloAT

Posted: **Tue Jan 07, 2025 03:20 CET**

Good luck to all those that move onto round 2.

Thanks Mellow Browne for taking the time to give mix notes to all participants. Quite a big task to take on so kudos for taking the time to do that.

I don't agree with the assessment of my mix at all but I appreciate feedback regardless. I understand with music it is very sujective and everyone has different opinions so I respect that you provided feedback.

I compared my mix to the top 15 and definitely think I have a very different opinion of how my mix compares to others, but it is what it is. Not knocking other mixes at all, I just think mine definitely should have been in the top 15. I don't understand why many sound very boxy and unclear in the low mids, some were overly muddy and some had reverbs and fx that just didnt' fit the genre... and they were picked. I don't get it but maybe my ears have gotten bad after years of having subwoofers in my trunk.

Thanks Mister Fox for continuing to offer this community a place to enjoy.
Thanks Mellow Browne for providing the song and feedback. I did have a lot of fun mixing this song as its rare we get rap/hiphop in the monthly contests.

Best of luck to all!

Posted: **Tue Jan 07, 2025 06:03 CET**

Hi all,
A huge thank you to Mellow Browne for doing such an incredible job with this one and of course thanks to Mister Fox as usual. Hopefully I will have time soon to digest some of the information you've given @Mellow Browne I do understand the importance of monitoring and I know that my own set up is woeful frankly, the trouble is I have a very bad small room to work in and I just don't have a lot of options. Your detail and comments about the monitoring are making me re-evaluate my ideas on what I'm doing though so thanks very much for that.

Here's my entry for Round 2

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hfF5GL ... sp=sharing

Sadly I had precious little time to work on it. However I loved working on it and I tried to address all the feedback given. I changed quite a lot of things, too many to list, but I'll give my new vocal chain for the hook section as this was the part that I had listed for my first mix.

1 EQ - hpf @70Hz, -2.5 dB shelf @470Hz, +1.3dB bell @1.1kHz, +1.7dB bell @2.6kHz, +3.8dB shelf @20kHz
2 de-esser made from a fabfilter MB with the band chosen as everything about 4.8kHz, range of 9dB
3 EQ +1.2dB @4.3kHz to counter the de-esser's darkening effect
4 1st Compression with Fabfilter C2, ratio 3.44:1, attack 3.3ms, release 42ms doing between 3-4dB GR
5 2nd Compression with Fabfilter C2, ratio 2:1, attack 11ms, release 89ms doing between 1-2dB GR
6 EQ hpf 80Hz, +1.1dB wide bell @2.7kHz
7 Weiss De-esser doing a tiny bit more de-essing

I removed all the saturation from the vocal tracks rightly or wrongly, I ended up thinking the saturators weren't needed.

Good Luck to all

Posted: **Tue Jan 07, 2025 06:18 CET**

PistolPete wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 07, 2025 03:20 CET
Good luck to all those that move onto round 2.

Thanks Mellow Browne for taking the time to give mix notes to all participants. Quite a big task to take on so kudos for taking the time to do that.

I don't agree with the assessment of my mix at all but I appreciate feedback regardless. I understand with music it is very sujective and everyone has different opinions so I respect that you provided feedback.

I compared my mix to the top 15 and definitely think I have a very different opinion of how my mix compares to others, but it is what it is. Not knocking other mixes at all, I just think mine definitely should have been in the top 15. I don't understand why many sound very boxy and unclear in the low mids, some were overly muddy and some had reverbs and fx that just didnt' fit the genre... and they were picked. I don't get it but maybe my ears have gotten bad after years of having subwoofers in my trunk.

Thanks Mister Fox for continuing to offer this community a place to enjoy.
Thanks Mellow Browne for providing the song and feedback. I did have a lot of fun mixing this song as its rare we get rap/hiphop in the monthly contests.

Best of luck to all!

I know you didn't ask for my feedback, but I think I can help a little bit. Honestly I think you try so hard and have such a lot of great ideas. But you don't need to try so hard to impact the production. I would say the main thing you have gone wrong with is in over processing the audio. Each unit that we place onto the track is essentially damaging the audio the way that I see things, so if you are going to place a plugin on at all, it had better be doing something pretty darn important. If you place them on without a crucial role then each time the quality of the audio is declining. Before long we start to hear distortion, strange resonances etc. On your mix I did enjoy many aspects of it, but there's something very strange happening in the top end with these high pitched echoes bouncing around, I'm not even sure what they are from, but if you have applied delay effects with large feedback values, then I think you will always be going wrong on a track like this. As you well know the timing of the vocals vs the drum groove is everything in a track like this, so then why clutter up the space with delay effects? Anyway, please feel free to continue having fun mixing in whatever way that you like, but if you would like to be chosen for round 2, please please just use a lot less plugins, do a lot less things and you will have a much bigger chance to get there! Best wishes.

Posted: **Tue Jan 07, 2025 08:03 CET**

scottfitz wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 07, 2025 06:18 CET

PistolPete wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 07, 2025 03:20 CET
Good luck to all those that move onto round 2.

Thanks Mellow Browne for taking the time to give mix notes to all participants. Quite a big task to take on so kudos for taking the time to do that.

I don't agree with the assessment of my mix at all but I appreciate feedback regardless. I understand with music it is very sujective and everyone has different opinions so I respect that you provided feedback.

I compared my mix to the top 15 and definitely think I have a very different opinion of how my mix compares to others, but it is what it is. Not knocking other mixes at all, I just think mine definitely should have been in the top 15. I don't understand why many sound very boxy and unclear in the low mids, some were overly muddy and some had reverbs and fx that just didnt' fit the genre... and they were picked. I don't get it but maybe my ears have gotten bad after years of having subwoofers in my trunk.

Thanks Mister Fox for continuing to offer this community a place to enjoy.
Thanks Mellow Browne for providing the song and feedback. I did have a lot of fun mixing this song as its rare we get rap/hiphop in the monthly contests.

Best of luck to all!
I know you didn't ask for my feedback, but I think I can help a little bit. Honestly I think you try so hard and have such a lot of great ideas. But you don't need to try so hard to impact the production. I would say the main thing you have gone wrong with is in over processing the audio. Each unit that we place onto the track is essentially damaging the audio the way that I see things, so if you are going to place a plugin on at all, it had better be doing something pretty darn important. If you place them on without a crucial role then each time the quality of the audio is declining. Before long we start to hear distortion, strange resonances etc. On your mix I did enjoy many aspects of it, but there's something very strange happening in the top end with these high pitched echoes bouncing around, I'm not even sure what they are from, but if you have applied delay effects with large feedback values, then I think you will always be going wrong on a track like this. As you well know the timing of the vocals vs the drum groove is everything in a track like this, so then why clutter up the space with delay effects? Anyway, please feel free to continue having fun mixing in whatever way that you like, but if you would like to be chosen for round 2, please please just use a lot less plugins, do a lot less things and you will have a much bigger chance to get there! Best wishes.

Thank you ScottFitz for listening and trying to help. I honestly didn't really overuse plugins, matter of fact I didn't use very many at all and most processing was done parallel and in small amounts. (other than the main vocal and on the adlibs) Delays were only on adlibs/backup vocals and used tastefully to fill the spaces, and not overlap, other than what is common in commercial radio trap music. (think Migos). The only really problems I find in my own mix is that the highs are a little too shrill in the vocals but would only need about a -2db on a parametric eq on the 6-8k range most likely and maybe I cleaned the sub too much were the artist didnt' like what I did to it? I don't know.

I even listened to multiple sources (bose bluetooth speaker, car (with sub), 3 pairs of headphones from 30 dollar ones to 350 dollar ones, studio speaker my mix sounds amazing so I don't get it. Translates well on all sources, clear, clean, loud and quite tasteful for the genre.. I even compared it to current "trap music" that is on the radio and its extremely close in balance, eq and instrument/voice position and levels.

I listened to quite a bit of the other mixes that were selected (also on multiple sources) and there were quite a few that sounded much more dull and flat where mine sounds more like a commercial record to me... (bright, big, exciting). I just don't get it. Even the part where the vocals have an effect and then the gunshot happens, I really crafted that section to cater to the feeling... but maybe I should have just EQ'd the tracks and called it a day.

Maybe I'm playing the role of a "producer + mixer" and adding too much of my own taste or something and maybe my ears are just that bad where all the mixes are actually good and mine is crap... I dont know... Maybe the way I started mixing screwed me up as I had to play the recording engineer, producer, mixer and mastering engineer in one to all of my clients so I got use to "crafting" their sound instead of taking it and just spit shining it.

I appreciate you giving me feedback and I have fun regardless, but it just really sometimes bums me out when I have a mix I think is amazing and hear other mixes selected that have much bigger issues than mine. Maybe on future mixes I will just use no plugins, pan, gain structure and bounce it to see what happens. Maybe I am doing too much to craft the songs into what I think sounds like a commercial song, and should leave them as they are.

Thanks anyway Scottfitz. I appreciate your feedback and ears. Good luck in the remainder of this months challenge.

Maybe in future monthly contests, the song provider "should" listen in headphones as well as in speakers/studio. I know this month the song provider said they didn't use headphones much, but listening to the top 15 in headphones is quite revealing...

Posted: **Tue Jan 07, 2025 09:49 CET**

PistolPete wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 07, 2025 08:03 CET

scottfitz wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 07, 2025 06:18 CET

PistolPete wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 07, 2025 03:20 CET
Good luck to all those that move onto round 2.

Thanks Mellow Browne for taking the time to give mix notes to all participants. Quite a big task to take on so kudos for taking the time to do that.

I don't agree with the assessment of my mix at all but I appreciate feedback regardless. I understand with music it is very sujective and everyone has different opinions so I respect that you provided feedback.

I compared my mix to the top 15 and definitely think I have a very different opinion of how my mix compares to others, but it is what it is. Not knocking other mixes at all, I just think mine definitely should have been in the top 15. I don't understand why many sound very boxy and unclear in the low mids, some were overly muddy and some had reverbs and fx that just didnt' fit the genre... and they were picked. I don't get it but maybe my ears have gotten bad after years of having subwoofers in my trunk.

Thanks Mister Fox for continuing to offer this community a place to enjoy.
Thanks Mellow Browne for providing the song and feedback. I did have a lot of fun mixing this song as its rare we get rap/hiphop in the monthly contests.

Best of luck to all!
I know you didn't ask for my feedback, but I think I can help a little bit. Honestly I think you try so hard and have such a lot of great ideas. But you don't need to try so hard to impact the production. I would say the main thing you have gone wrong with is in over processing the audio. Each unit that we place onto the track is essentially damaging the audio the way that I see things, so if you are going to place a plugin on at all, it had better be doing something pretty darn important. If you place them on without a crucial role then each time the quality of the audio is declining. Before long we start to hear distortion, strange resonances etc. On your mix I did enjoy many aspects of it, but there's something very strange happening in the top end with these high pitched echoes bouncing around, I'm not even sure what they are from, but if you have applied delay effects with large feedback values, then I think you will always be going wrong on a track like this. As you well know the timing of the vocals vs the drum groove is everything in a track like this, so then why clutter up the space with delay effects? Anyway, please feel free to continue having fun mixing in whatever way that you like, but if you would like to be chosen for round 2, please please just use a lot less plugins, do a lot less things and you will have a much bigger chance to get there! Best wishes.
Thank you ScottFitz for listening and trying to help. I honestly didn't really overuse plugins, matter of fact I didn't use very many at all and most processing was done parallel and in small amounts. (other than the main vocal and on the adlibs) Delays were only on adlibs/backup vocals and used tastefully to fill the spaces, and not overlap, other than what is common in commercial radio trap music. (think Migos). The only really problems I find in my own mix is that the highs are a little too shrill in the vocals but would only need about a -2db on a parametric eq on the 6-8k range most likely and maybe I cleaned the sub too much were the artist didnt' like what I did to it? I don't know.

I even listened to multiple sources (bose bluetooth speaker, car (with sub), 3 pairs of headphones from 30 dollar ones to 350 dollar ones, studio speaker my mix sounds amazing so I don't get it. Translates well on all sources, clear, clean, loud and quite tasteful for the genre.. I even compared it to current "trap music" that is on the radio and its extremely close in balance, eq and instrument/voice position and levels.

I listened to quite a bit of the other mixes that were selected (also on multiple sources) and there were quite a few that sounded much more dull and flat where mine sounds more like a commercial record to me... (bright, big, exciting). I just don't get it. Even the part where the vocals have an effect and then the gunshot happens, I really crafted that section to cater to the feeling... but maybe I should have just EQ'd the tracks and called it a day.

Maybe I'm playing the role of a "producer + mixer" and adding too much of my own taste or something and maybe my ears are just that bad where all the mixes are actually good and mine is crap... I dont know... Maybe the way I started mixing screwed me up as I had to play the recording engineer, producer, mixer and mastering engineer in one to all of my clients so I got use to "crafting" their sound instead of taking it and just spit shining it.

I appreciate you giving me feedback and I have fun regardless, but it just really sometimes bums me out when I have a mix I think is amazing and hear other mixes selected that have much bigger issues than mine. Maybe on future mixes I will just use no plugins, pan, gain structure and bounce it to see what happens. Maybe I am doing too much to craft the songs into what I think sounds like a commercial song, and should leave them as they are.

Thanks anyway Scottfitz. I appreciate your feedback and ears. Good luck in the remainder of this months challenge.

Maybe in future monthly contests, the song provider "should" listen in headphones as well as in speakers/studio. I know this month the song provider said they didn't use headphones much, but listening to the top 15 in headphones is quite revealing...

Hey Pistol, if you can't hear any problems in the top end then you should definitely get a hearing test. Please don't interpret this as being some sort of stupid insult. Our hearing is a precious thing. I have been for a hearing test myself and I found that I have some impairment in the 4kHz region. This is the 'f' consonants domain incidentally. So when I try to hear what people are saying I can run into trouble if there are fs that I need to be able to hear! For mixing it's a big problem also because I am like -6 to 8 dB in sensitivity in that specific region which is the key 'vocal presence' area! Fortunately for me, despite my abuse of my ears for a lot of my life I still have some intact. It's really important to know exactly what you have impaired because then you can train yourself to adapt to that. You can for example use visual tools to check your impaired area or you can just bear in mind all the time that your ears will not handle this area so therefore - use a bit less boost than you think and compare to commerical mixes. When you compare to other mixes you must match the volumes well. For a while on the mix challenge I used to put my mix favourably in volume to others and always be confused as to why mine isn't chosen. Then when I finally got to matching the volumes properly..... Aha! Now I see why mine isn't chosen, it's comparing really unfavourably when volume matched. I think until mixers can get to grips with this volume matching game it's unlikely that they will be able to make much progress from where they are because if you think your mix is great when you have unknowingly just set it louder then you cannot possibly make any of the necessary changes that will improve it.

Anyway sorry for the long speech but it is for me the essence of how I started to make progress after a long period of going around in circles.

Posted: **Tue Jan 07, 2025 13:51 CET**

Many thanks @Mellow Browne for your detailed feedback.
I will check my mix with your comments. Really appreciate! And thanks @Mister Fox for your hard work on this, too!
Good luck to all who are in 2nd Round!

Posted: **Tue Jan 07, 2025 17:13 CET**

My mix for the second stage: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1191yBu ... sp=sharing

I try to adress all pointed issues. For the lack of bass i add even more saturation on the kick and 808 and harmonics on the 808 and boost the lows with 2 db more on the mix buss.
More saturation on the instrumental and the all mix in general but loadness is even low.
Try to lower in volume the hats and cut 1-2 db to smoth them second snare too.
Lower the vocals with 1 more db to blend them more with the beat and added one more dyn eq on the vocal bus to try to tame the esses and shs even more but it was risky cose its pritty easy to suck the live out of the vocals and make them dull.
Lower the lead melody that u point is a bit laud too.
For the tranzishen part i was thinking thinking but its only one raser there sinse we cant add more stuff the only thing that came to my mind was to chop a bit the raser in 1/8 notes to make sort of dj effect.
Lower and the simle mono trow delay in the verse vocal and i think whats all i did.

At the end i must say it was very hard to find propper reference sinse i dont work this style very often more or less and all did i listen via youtube had some sort of a very big mixing problems not that my mixes are great but ... way way to laud snares ruined mixes from too much saturation and or limiting for laudness and so on and so on.

Posted: **Tue Jan 07, 2025 22:44 CET**

Hello MellowBrowne,

Thank you for your really detailed, serious and knowledgeable discussion of the many mixes and mine in particular.
Reading your feedback and listening through your top 15 mixes makes me realize that we probably listen differently and have different tastes: I like a deep, wide, warm sound. I like mixes that follow the song. In particular, the depth, a round, warm bass and dynamic and sound enhancements make me feel good.
The bells are so far back because they were annoying up front. The piano is loud because it sounds good and brings variety. Too much of the thumping kick takes away the warmth of the 808. These are my thoughts and ideas. I'm sure everything can be done better than I did (I've already made some mix improvements myself after submission that affected the saturation part in the low end), but it will sound different than your mix.

Regarding my monitor situation: The KSD digital are adapted to the not too badly insulated room (measured with REW, well below 300 ms decay) using the arc studio from ik multimedia. I adjusted my hearing loss in the 6kHz range (drum cymbals! Watch out!) with a plugin called HEARS in the monitor path.
My experience with cheaper Focal speakers was very good. The sound was very pleasing to my ear and I sometimes wish I had them back when I listen to the cold KSD digital. But these give me a much more honest and clearer sound. The transients come to the ear more clearly and quickly than with the Focal. I suspect that this also amplifies the differences in our low-end. I hear more of the punch here that you are missing. It probably won't be enough for you, but I probably mix a little “softer” than necessary due to the “hard” KSD. I didn't hear the difference to the same extent with the Focal.

By the way, with “Balenciaga” I liked the depth, the width and the dynamics, which I wanted to pick up on.
I also tried to “improve” your mix with a dynamic EQ. I felt the same way, your mix sounds quite balanced to me, only in the 5-6kHz range it sounds too much for me, I had to turn off the HEARS plugin so that it sounds pleasant to me. (Do you sit at the drums too often without hearing protection? :-)) However, your mix sounds too static and flat to me. Also, the bells get on my nerves at some point:-)

Of course, you decide how you want your song to sound, so I appreciate your feedback because it helps me understand my sound better. I hope my feedback helps you as well.

By the way: apart from the two parts at 2:12 and 2:47, I didn't change anything in the arrangement. At least not consciously.

Thank you and best regards from Münster

Posted: **Wed Jan 08, 2025 02:55 CET**

Thanks for choosing my mix for the second round.

Had to go back to Cubase 13 because of a automation bug in the latest update.

The speakers I used are the KRK VXT 6 with the KRK 10s Subwoofer.

- Tamed the "feedback" by -3 % in the beginning.

- Tamed the "grittiness" on the "Hook Bells" track.

- Added some "automation" before the transition to the 2nd hook.

- Turned down the "Hi Hat" track.

- Turned down the "Open Hat" track.

- Added delay automation 8 bars faded into the second & third verse.

- Added some mid-high eq boost to the vocals.

The "Verse Autotune clean" & "Verse Autotune" were panned left to right on the first mix.
Panned the clean version to mono and the other track I used for fx.

On the piano track I boosted the first and second harmonic, then added some grit by using the arturia tape mello-fi plugin.

Hope you like the changes.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18us-Z1 ... sp=sharing

Mix Challenge

MIX CHALLENGE - MC101 December 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 09-JAN-2025 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC101 December 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 09-JAN-2025 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC101 December 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 09-JAN-2025 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC101 December 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 09-JAN-2025 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC101 December 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 09-JAN-2025 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC101 December 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 09-JAN-2025 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC101 December 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 09-JAN-2025 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC101 December 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 09-JAN-2025 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC101 December 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 09-JAN-2025 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC101 December 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 09-JAN-2025 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC101 December 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 09-JAN-2025 23:59 UTC+1/CET