Mix Challenge

Snarowitz wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 26, 2019 03:51 CEST

Like everyone, I appreciate the time you put into reviewing ALL of these mixes EatMe!! I especially love the fact that you reviewed your own mix.

Good honest feedback is often hard to find so I will return the favor:

After listening to your mix I can understand why you didn't like my kick sound... I thought yours sounded hollow and lacked life. Just a matter of preference I guess. On a side note, I'm not sure how/why your system clipped, left plenty of headroom on my end. But for the record, your suggestion was accepted, and after re-listening to my mix I agree that it may have been a little overdone.

I am curious how you removed all the thump from your kick, did you do that with EQ? I ask because your mix seemed to have a weird phasey thing happening, and aside from the obvious (kick/drum alignment), that is usually caused by improper/overuse of EQ. I do like how you managed to retain the "pop" of the kick, and I like your snare sound with the reverb. The vocals sound good, but the guitars are a little far back and lacked the midrange bite I look for in European rock. It kind of sounded more like Japanese pop to me. Anyway, without the kick thump and guitar bite, the great snare sound was left on an island with only the vocal to work with. This might work in hip hop, but not great for a more melodic vocal like this.

I have boosted the midrange of the top kick drum recordings a lot, and have added compression to keep the kick poppy. There is also reverb on the top kick part, that may also leave the impression of something going on with the phase. The kick drum was coming in multiple channels, so it may have been out of phase.. On this precise level, I have no idea how to fix a multichannel phase movement issue like this if I would not use (not permitted) replaced drum-triggering.

A little off, a little on-topic: Robert Babicz talking about mastering

@EatMe, thx very much,
the client told that the vocals were not recorded the way they should have been, because of the situation and purpose, when the song was produced.
I sure did hide some issues behind the distortion, but on demand of the client I would adjust that valve overdrive to become softer.
the first verse uses a different device, so I would beg for instructions per line or song segment, in case some parts are still ok. very much a matter of taste, in the old times we had many super hits with super hot printed vocals.
my version of the drum solo reflects that guy, who is a bit confused from his own over-analyzing, when he should just roll over then things go well.
when listeners say "what a nice song, what a hot voice, great flow, but the recording is a bit trashy", then press repeat button, then practically, mission accomplished.
because otherwise we have heard a few mixes that sound boring and this is a no-go.
---
drum adjustment does have to correct definite "wrong" phase, when it hurts the punch or body of a drum.
beyond that, the factor that you on your own, cook together some 3D space with the different microphones, to me seems much more important than corrections other than point one.
some genres demand a very sterile drum sound, where everything is aligned, and there are multi-track plugins to help that.
I went for an organic sound, and did some tricks, but only one room track was shifted, mainly because it got a "headcrusher" gadget, that does not correctly report latency, but sounds so crazy it had to be part here.

EatMe wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 24, 2019 15:32 CEST

mix by paperthin
** pros: A good together sounding glued mix. Nice faded-in-reversed effect at the end of the drum break.
** cons: Some sounds are a little oversaturated in the mix. This works less good for the clarity of each part.
This is a good mix, has a, like many of the others, very good sounding composition of all parts. Good to listen!

Thanks for the feedback, man! You sure seem to have a lot of time on your hands, which I can only envy. I didn't have a particular goal in mind concerning saturation of parts, just tried to make everything sound closer to my personal idea of "good"

Returning the favour. I just gave your mix a listen and wow – our tastes differ very much (not a bad thing btw). Several things caught my ear. Firstly the snare drum which to my taste sounds papery and brittle. Secondly, the background vocals. They seem to take center stage in your mix whereas I prefer my BVs to play more of a supporting role. It's all subjective, of course, I'm not critiquing anything. And I think I heard some kind of a delay effect on the drums in the break in your mix. Was it intentional? Or am I mistaken? So these are the things I noticed first. Take it with a grain of salt, obviously

paperthin wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 27, 2019 02:08 CEST

....
. And I think I heard some kind of a delay effect on the drums in the break in your mix. Was it intentional? Or am I mistaken? So these are the things I noticed first. Take it with a grain of salt, obviously

I have only used reverb, indeed by intention..

[\quote]
I have boosted the midrange of the top kick drum recordings a lot, and have added compression to keep the kick poppy. There is also reverb on the top kick part, that may also leave the impression of something going on with the phase. The kick drum was coming in multiple channels, so it may have been out of phase.. On this precise level, I have no idea how to fix a multichannel phase movement issue like this if I would not use (not permitted) replaced drum-triggering.
[/quote]

I don’t recall what DAW you said you used, but you can usually zoom in plenty close to check the wave forms of the various kick tracks to confirm alignment. If the peak of one track aligns with the valley of the other just give one a nudge, or use a phase alignment tool (I think sound radix makes a pretty good one, but I have not used it). Sometimes overheads can cause similar problems. Also, if your using a lot of heavy EQing you should read up on linear phase EQs vs non-linear. If you’re not familiar the short version is that EQs generate phase shifts. This is what gives them their “character”. It is a byproduct of how EQs work (like compression adds harmonic saturation as a byproduct of their function). Linear phase EQs introduce latency in order to combat phase problems.

Thanks again for all your reviews. The amount of time and effort you put forth is a testament to your passion for sound and that shit is contagious.

Best,

Steve

EatMe wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 26, 2019 21:32 CEST

mix by TomImmon
** pros: This mix exceeds any expectations. A lot of clarity, well balanced and together sounding mix.. The drum break is remarkably handled.
** cons: None. What a competition to run next to!
If I had to choose a winner for the competition, this mix would have been one of the serious competitors. A lot of enjoyment in listening.

@EatMe
Thank you so much for the great feedback on my mix and the really nice words you found . I am particularly pleased, because I listened to all mixes from your list and in almost 100% absolutely agree with your comments. I really liked your way of commenting the mixes. Short, benevolent, but also very honest! This really helps everyone to improve their quality, although a lot of it is of course a matter of taste.
In general, I find your commitment to this competition great. I'm here for the first time and a bit busy, but I hope that I can contribute more next time.

You have not found any cons to my mix, which makes me really happy , but I myself found some (after some time exeeds). Therefore: The main vocals in my mix definitely need some vocal riding. The whole mix lacks a little warmth (lower mids), but that can also be fixed well in the master. The solo guitar could be a bit louder. Snare could have a bit more belly, sounds a little hard and potty (even if it gets through well). My biggest mistake but: Wrong level, I gave away about 3db, because I worked thanks to a wrong set meter on -20 LUFS

I would like to give you a word about your mix:
Drums sounds great, natural, but still powerful. The snare is missing a bit in the chorus, however, the assertiveness. The OH seems quite loud, if you take the room nodes out a bit more, snare and toms will surely prevail better. Main vocals are transparent and good in level, unfortunately they go down when the choir starts. You gave the choir a great sound at all, but it is too dominant for my taste. On the other hand, you break with a few listening habits, which fits well with this indie pop song. The bass sounds first class! The guitars are very far back and rather in the center of the mix, so they do not support the vocals so well and connect badly with bass and drums for the necessary pressure. All in all, I really like your mix despite the criticism, it is unique (just because of the very present choir ) and it is round and pleasant to hear.

TomImmon wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 27, 2019 08:17 CEST

@EatMe
Thank you so much for the great feedback on my mix and the really nice words you found . I am particularly pleased, because I listened to all mixes from your list and in almost 100% absolutely agree with your comments. I really liked your way of commenting the mixes. Short, benevolent, but also very honest! This really helps everyone to improve their quality, although a lot of it is of course a matter of taste.
In general, I find your commitment to this competition great. I'm here for the first time and a bit busy, but I hope that I can contribute more next time.

...

I would like to give you a word about your mix:
Drums sounds great, natural, but still powerful. The snare is missing a bit in the chorus, however, the assertiveness. The OH seems quite loud, if you take the room nodes out a bit more, snare and toms will surely prevail better. Main vocals are transparent and good in level, unfortunately they go down when the choir starts. You gave the choir a great sound at all, but it is too dominant for my taste. On the other hand, you break with a few listening habits, which fits well with this indie pop song. The bass sounds first class! The guitars are very far back and rather in the center of the mix, so they do not support the vocals so well and connect badly with bass and drums for the necessary pressure. All in all, I really like your mix despite the criticism, it is unique (just because of the very present choir ) and it is round and pleasant to hear.

Thanks there for showing you almost 100% agree with my comments. I really tried to honestly comment and give everybody some proper feedback.

I tried to mix the snare drum with not that much low body on purpose, to not make this track sound like the (taped) music from the 1980's too much. I also tried to give a little unique sound to the mix by using some reverb on the overhead tracks, especially the cymbal crash sounds much longer. The backing vocals in my mix may, for the first round, initially have been mixed in a little too loud. The guitar may do with some phase-difference in left and right perhaps, I shall look into that if I make it to the second round. I am a bass guitar player myself, and have learnt (also from the above video) about how to properly add punch to such a bass sound with longer attack in multiple compression instances.

Thank you very much for the detailed comment on my mix, this is of great assistance. You pretty much nailed it with your mix, please do not change it too drastically, it's beautiful. Great to have this, so talented, competition. Good luck for the second round!

comments on mixes, selected quite randomly.
all are quite good, some are excellent, but in case of questions "what else could we improve" I am mentioning some potentials I may have discovered.
but that's just a humble opinion, told in short and blunt words.
it is for the sake of optional technical improvements, so this will be a collection of critical or negative remarks, I apologize for that.
just to stay concise. big respect to everyone. you all make sense.
--

eatme --
drums a bit too thin, and like hammering on wood in the bathroom, kick could afford more low end, still can be high-passed to stay within your style. more clarity will give much more credibility to the idea of the style.
there is some subsonic hum swelling, for some short moments, probably from vocal mic. try it in the car?
nice innovative ideas (bright drums, kind of vocal phalanx when lead and harmony are so tightly together)

Tapwater --
the distortion in the vocals creates a problem, because some high ringing frequencies were not defeated, so there is harshness,
still deserves more upper mids to voc. without ringing, I would tolerate the distortion easily.
the git echoes are a bit distracting.

finnishcharm --
I have a little issue with the reverb hierarchy: between vocals and the rest there is so much difference, some vocal parts are unnaturally dry, when the drums have such a big sounding space.

Jerze --
do I hear samples?
good mix, voc sounds great, drums have some stereotypic poof and clickiness that I would not crave for, would like it to be more organic.

marv --
there is a kick boom from a low frequency room or reverb, that might better have half its duration.
toms are boomy and long sometimes too, so there is some intermediate buildup in the low mids and bass;
bass git itself is very powerful.
drum solo: in midrange there is somewhat low energy, so it appears like a volume drop

philk --
samples have been discussed already,
how vocals were mixed (good) and how drums were mixed, for me this seems too different from each other, in terms of style. not glueing too well.

brina --
first verse technically was not treated successfully; but then later on good voc;
the chosen effects don't help the guitars well.
drums sound too different from rest, and drums + rooms + revs as a package seem to have some little but distracting noises going on.

TiPa --
sounds like the bus compression is not well-tuned. kind of snappy attacks everywhere,
also sounds boxy, treble range sometimes destroyed with compression or clipping artifacts.

TomImmon --
midrange sometimes not powerful enough.
dynamics have a push-pull fight among tracks, perhaps in the compression,
dynamics should build up more beautifully, not choking something.
(when I run into such problem, I leave all bus compression to the discretion of the mastering engineer, perhaps he won't do any. I try to get some reasonable level flow with sensitive automation in the stem busses, I might compress stems separately from each other, and rebalance every part of the song with automation.)

---
the following remarks are a reaction on the other mixes and corresponding debates:
by some instinctive motion, I started this mix with the room sounds and overheads, then shortly checked how the guitars can fit into this space. considering what reverb would fit the guitars, I opted to replace the regular reverb with a bit more of a colorizing compressor and m/s treble shelf for the sides, and use only the "space knob" to glue them into the drum room. this is all for the git stem bus.
then, everything went quite well, but with some effort. (voc documented already.)

White Punk OD wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 27, 2019 22:49 CEST

there is some subsonic hum swelling, for some short moments, probably from vocal mic. try it in the car?

WhitePunkOD You're clearly trollin' me and it's not appreciated.

Maybe if you would comment about hearable elements it would be nice. I can not afford a car to detect unhearable sound regions. And paid parking, by the way. Maybe somebody should donate 2,50 per hour.

I'm looking for a good car that produces subsonic hum, any givers or takers where this is in the mix?