Mix Challenge

@mork,
it might be interesting to consider about the reward-givers, those plugin makers. else a competition might become moot.
are they interested in comments?

I am using only plugins, that I got for free, to make a point for the beginners.
special cases are Little Plate and Subspace (did I forget another one?) as they have commercial big brothers, and were offered for free only during a limited time.
So, if someone says, I got my preferred organ sound with Waves (whatever), it might be an interesting point to the vendors.
Or, what technique is recommended in case depth lacks? or, balance and intensity of certain stems, someone might jump in and claim that e.g. Gullfoss does the job.


OTOH, I think the music industry is interested mainly in commercial schools and their contests, like "produce like a pro".
and they gave away for free quite a lot already.

about the perfection and style, there is this meme with "dark side of the moon", I call it meme because everyone has the rainbow picture somewhere in the mix room or online exhibition.
I have a different example.
"Jesus Christ Superstar", the studio album has utter perfection, and the movie soundtrack is completely different, almost a "culture shock". the latter is all about attitude.
or, the different renditions of "Hair", that probably had quite an influence on some later Soul and RnB mainstream productions, as it builds a bridge among audiences.
so, I think the highly popular live bootleg uploads on YT reflect the idea of the JCS movie sound. if the FOH sound was focused enough, the smartphone can capture everything that is important. on that playground, I love many Japanese uploads, but also some Russian. they are living this rock band attitude, not as white-headed seniors, but in the millennial generation and younger.

---
but while you are online and replying, I think your mix transmits some calmness, while mine may be a bit aggressive.
it's another of my top 5.
what I like:
I like the tremolo effect on the piano, and that it has a clear position in the space (not swirling around like some chorus processors did).
the bass is very warm, don't know if it is not overwhelming in the car though.
solo git sound, and the delay effect. also, not too aggressive. rh.git and mod effects are sweet.
balance and distinction between snare sound and rim shot is very nice. snare sounds _not_ plastic, but has enough treble to shine and support the vocal groove.
kick is very soft and organic, but does it get drowned on poor listening devices? (having not that much treble)
I love the vocal sound in the verse. the chorus is a bit loud, while I made it more "breathy" instead.
strings jump in well, so the loud vocal in the chorus seems no problem.
possible issues:
the organ is clashing with the guitar solo, some lower midrange. making the guitar loud does not help that. (organ is good in the vocal finale.)
tomtom sound before the git solo is a bit on the thin or boxy side. also during the solo, toms have some dynamic strangeness, with that I experimented myself also.
vocals seem a bit dry, which I love only in the first verse.
check out the difference between our renders, in the word "(come back and) STAY", I love the drama, and made it a bit more like "stay-eeh" because it had this potential in the first place. so, about vocal editing or compression, I'm following Mr.Warren Huart in these matters, he has intense lessions online and free. I also second his credo, that sound perfection is not the goal, but impact is, and something has to be "wrong" to create the best energy in the song.

First of all, let me congratulate those who made it to Round 2! Of course, I'm disappointed at not making it myself, but I'm going to weigh in on the "Rules" argument. I followed the rules and that DID NOT inhibit my mixing in any way! They are not difficult rules to follow, so what's the big deal??? The only rule I can see anyone arguing about would be "Drum Sample Triggering is not allowed (as of MC051)", simply because it's such a common practice in mixing today. But that's just used as a shortcut to getting the sound you want quickly.

But arguing over submitting the required file name and format? How does that inhibit your "artistic talent"? And, sure, documentation is a pain in the arse - unless you are so proud of your engineering expertise that you really want to share with everyone exactly how you got that super popping snare sound without using samples.

REALLY - how does following a simple set of rules make it impossible for you to mix??? It doesn't! The only ones complaining are the ones who made it to Round 2 in spite of NOT following the rules and the ones who did not make it into the next round and DID follow the rules. In any other competition, if a contestant violates the stated rules, they are disqualified. Period! They are removed from the competition. Period! It doesn't matter how good their performance was. They violated the rules! Unfortunately for Mr. Fox, he is the only one that has the authority to enforce the rules. That is not up to the song provider.

On a side note: I didn't tune the vocals for one reason, and one reason only - Dirk stated: "The challenge here is to make the song sound as if it was performed in a live jazz bar." Autotune is not typically used in a live jazz bar situation. A little pitchiness is normal.

I'll keep coming back as long as Mr. Fox is willing to put in the effort it takes to keep this competition going, in spite of all the bitching & moaning that goes on some times. And, yes, I have been a part of that problem in the past and I apologize for that.

Good luck with Round 2!!!

Seriously - could you folks please push the debates on the rules to the "Gossip Thread"?

I'm starting to loose track in this thread, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. So please...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8

Mr. Zsolt, are you in Hungary?
yeah I remember you were one of the "format perpetrators" with a great mix. (Mork also, creedchub, PeterM, Jerze.. filesize at one glance)
would you come to the other thread plz?

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 24, 2019 23:10 CEST

Seriously - could you folks please push the debates on the rules to the "Gossip Thread"?

I'm starting to loose track in this thread, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. So please...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8

You are not the only one ^^.

davemcisaac wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 24, 2019 22:37 CEST

But arguing over submitting the required file name and format? How does that inhibit your "artistic talent"?

(Sorry, one last quick reply regarding this) It doesn't, that is exactly the point! What I was (poorly) trying to suggest was to stop discussing rules and formats (as those are given) and focus on discussing the important things that make a great mix (or go to gossip as Fox pointed out). Stop majoring the minors would be the correct saying, I guess (I am really good at that myself ).

White Punk OD wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 24, 2019 21:54 CEST

I think your mix transmits some calmness, while mine may be a bit aggressive.
it's another of my top 5.
what I like:
I like the tremolo effect on the piano, and that it has a clear position in the space (not swirling around like some chorus processors did).
the bass is very warm, don't know if it is not overwhelming in the car though.
solo git sound, and the delay effect. also, not too aggressive. rh.git and mod effects are sweet.
balance and distinction between snare sound and rim shot is very nice. snare sounds _not_ plastic, but has enough treble to shine and support the vocal groove.
kick is very soft and organic, but does it get drowned on poor listening devices? (having not that much treble)
I love the vocal sound in the verse. the chorus is a bit loud, while I made it more "breathy" instead.
strings jump in well, so the loud vocal in the chorus seems no problem.
possible issues:
the organ is clashing with the guitar solo, some lower midrange. making the guitar loud does not help that. (organ is good in the vocal finale.)
tomtom sound before the git solo is a bit on the thin or boxy side. also during the solo, toms have some dynamic strangeness, with that I experimented myself also.
vocals seem a bit dry, which I love only in the first verse.
check out the difference between our renders, in the word "(come back and) STAY", I love the drama, and made it a bit more like "stay-eeh" because it had this potential in the first place. so, about vocal editing or compression, I'm following Mr.Warren Huart in these matters, he has intense lessions online and free. I also second his credo, that sound perfection is not the goal, but impact is, and something has to be "wrong" to create the best energy in the song.

Thanks for your detailed feedback, very much appreciated! Very cool that you write "calmness", that was what I had in mind. Wide, open and with impact. Since it's a ballad I wanted a huge round bottom that touches you (btw Kick comes through even on crappy speakers). The vocal already had a very cool slight edge that I wanted to keep, but instead of going dirty with the instruments I wanted them clean and hifi.
Turns out that's a real challenge, especially with almost all MIDI! Since I wanted to achieve impact, compression is generally on the light side, but now you have to somehow make these different dynamics work together. Drums are all over the place, the instruments just don't want to fit together... I used a few parallel busses and that helped a lot to get some glue. But I didn't find the right recipe in time to get that last bit of excitement and impact going. I liked the drive of some other mixes, but they were mostly heavily compressed, which I very much dislike for this particular song (usually my recipe for excitement). That was my number 1 concern. Chorus vocal is too loud, I agree and actually thought that while checking the file upload. Toms are flat and just balanced in (little reverb), I liked the tone in that moment (hey, it's jazz). The organ has a high pass, severe mid cut, slight distortion and Aphex on like 5 on it and still is too thick I just gave up. Honestly I think it must be fighting with the guitar delay, as its spread out wide. I also would have automated out the too obvious vocal delay in verse 1 for round 2.
Thanks again for the detailed feedback, I will return the favor tomorrow, but maybe better via PM to make it easier for Mr Fox.

Good luck everybody for Round 2!

@mork thx, looking forward!
(guess organ problem is due to "calm" paradigm.
I had an aggressive guitar sound and still did -6.7dB/1490/1.2Q and a low shelf -3/564/.7 thats even a bit resonant. but the strong reverb is bright and spares volume. git and organ don't share any reverb, I'm cheating ears here with two systems of totally different tech, that just have similar "room" principles in the usage. what really helps is a fast "Trackspacer" on git vs. organ, I could have built one with Nova. BTW PeterM has a great solution for this part, git quite dry. FrequencyPainter also great with using panning and lesley instead.)

I think what is a bit unfortunate in the last couple Mix challenges is that the song provider hasn't given feedback on each mix. That was the single most valuable thing from the mix challenges in the past. I know my mix this time was crap, especially the vocal work, as I simply ran out of time with other mixing work taking priority but the evaluation feedback was always the most valuable thing. Being able to read feedback on other mixes was valuable as well and that is where the notes on how the mix was done is valuable. I thought part of the goal was to help each other learn? Maybe there are just to many participants now.

I think some of the rules are ok but others don't make sense but they are what they are and should be followed, those not following them shouldn't get into the next round of evaluations. If we are really simulating a relationship with a client then the provider should be setting the rules.

ENOUGH!

We have a Gossip Thread for this purpose - please use it, or if it's a personal issue, please PM me. There are obviously outstanding issues, bring them up in a sorted manner, at the place where it should be. I will now remove every further argument on this topic in this thread, this has been derailed enough already.



The current stage of MC057 is:

• Mix Round 2 for the known 7 participants
• giving feedback to each other (if you want)