Mix Challenge

A quick update on Mix Round 2:
@Gaz has been very busy and things took longer than planned. Hence the "early post". The "individual feedback" will arrive within the next 48 hours. Of course I will update the thread and participants accordingly.

Apologies for the waiting time and thank you for your patience.

rvalle wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 05:09 CEST

Well, this was a challenge in which I invested time and dedication to create a mix that would please. The song is very good and I had a lot of fun working on it. I really liked the result I got. Every time I heard my finished mix, I thought I had achieved a very good result. I still do. But it was clear now that the band was looking for a result that was very close to the references that were mentioned. Even though it was said in the contest presentation that a modern approach might be welcome.

This is a recurring topic with each Mix(ing) Challenge. And this is why I specifically ask for music references where people can get inspired by, and then "build upon" that while mixing.

Yes, Gaz quite literally wrote "It would be interesting to hear a much more modern approach to this song.", however in defense of this statement, "much more modern" can also mean "modern tech", or "additional modern twist" (as in: push the amp dial just one step further than the band originally did), while the general tone is still the same (albeit with your unique approach and balance). It could also mean "hey, my set of ears hears something that shouldn't be in this frequency range - maybe I can clean that up". See the early comments on the opened upright piano, which has a ton of character on it's own.

This is clearly an early 1970s-type production. Also think "Queen - A Night at the Opera" or most notably "Bohemian Rhapsody" (1975). You can still mix "era accurate", but use modern technology (e.g. use a current day SSL 9000 Console than a 1960s RCA or 1970s Neve -- or even use your own custom setup!), including utilizing modern "movements and transitions" (panning/automation/reverb/delay/reverse-reverb). That is the concept here.

Instead, some entries actually really went the "super modern" approach - everything clean-cut, over-processed in places. Other entries went a bit too "minimalist"/vintage cassette tape inspired (drums barely in the mix, bass not noticeable, everything sounding "nasal"). As mentioned, this has been a recurring topic with recent games. And sometimes, it feels people sadly ignore the song and the general mood.


It is true though, that we do have the rare chance to "super-elevate" an otherwise "bland" production with the Mix(ing) Challenges. We will also get the chance to go a bit more "experimental" again in the future. In all these cases, I do ask for possible references. And if the Song Provider can't give any (because they just worked "in the moment"), I often look up stuff that I think might work and then triple check with the client if that is "okay".

However, paying attention to detail, and having an eye (and ears) on the "bigger picture" is important.

rvalle wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 05:09 CEST

That's where I went wrong, since I only took into account my taste and the things I usually listen to. I even worked more creatively than I usually do when it came to effects and ambience. I was particularly happy with the result of the radio effect, which I thought was very similar to the voice coming from such a device. I also really liked the result of the backing vocals, which were controlled and fitted in well with the lead vox. And, as one of the points here is learning, at this challenge I discovered that the simplest can be the best option in some cases. There are many excellent mixes and I hope the best one wins. Thanks to @Gaz and the band for the opportunity. Good luck to everyone.

To give you some more feedback for your mix:
It definitely has something "unique". It is just unfortunate that this didn't work for the client.

What I instantly notice (especially on small speakers, which is my "first impression" device)... your mix is very, very clear and bright. The drums are also modern and "clicky". This is a personal choice, and it needs to serve the song. Yet overall, it felt very harsh and over-processed (especially the snare, where the focus is on the "snare bottom"). With the reverb on the drum set, it also sets a certain stage/base-tone as if the band is in a "brick-wall studio".

Speaking of reverb... the intimacy of the story is missing. In your case, Gaz's lead voice is instantly placed inside of a "room" that feels like a "cell" rather than an "inside head" voice that moves more and more "outside", turning into quite literal screams on the battle-field this character is currently on (pre-chorus sections). At least, this is how I would interpret this song.

Sound effect wise, the radio call/response section could still be "pushed" a bit further (slight distortion), you also blended it with the dry signal (which is a matter of choice, but wouldn't work in this case). The general battlefield feels a bit too "sci-fi", not visceral. The driving part here is "chaos", "distortion (of reality)", not to mention sheer panic and madness being depicted. In fact, a lot of the Top 15 tracks also have this section a bit "too clean", or the balance is somewhat off. Else, placing the "effects" in the stereo field, volume layer and frequency range is always a matter of taste. There is no clear rule here. Either it works and tells a good story, or it doesn't. And if it doesn't, the "client" will tell you.

Good approach, but maybe pushed a bit "too far".


Again, I highly recommend to listen to some of the provided references. Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody" is a good reference for "dynamic shifts" (yes, Freddie Mercury's voice feels heavy FX laden, also due to the layering - but listen to the changes per section). Gentle Giant's "The Power and the Glory" is a good reference for "raw tone". And both King Crimson and Yes can work as reference for "controlled chaos".

Maybe we'll even throw some Rush with "2112" in there for good measure (although here the drum low end feels "thin", and Jeff Jones really rides that reverb on that album! And despite being a Canadian band, the album felt like "Americana" from the 1970s). Dare I even add Genesis' 1973 Album "Selling England by the Pound" arrangment wise (this can't be any further from the "modern Genesis" content - Peter Gabriel's voice does throw you off on occasion though) or early 1970s Uriah Heep (aggression). (sorry for this one, Gaz! )


A deep dive to "(British) Progressive Rock" on Wikipedia, and/or a trip to both the "Map of Metal" and the "Music Map" ("Classic Rock"/ Golden Age section) is definitely worth to brush up on knowledge. You will notice clear details in narration style, and general tone out of the "US" compared to "UK".





Either way - we'll keep you folks updated on Mix Round 2.

First of all Congratz to the mixes that made for Round 2. I want to ask u all for some feedback about my mix sinse its out of the game.Thanks

kombainera wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 20, 2023 08:28 CEST

First of all Congratz to the mixes that made for Round 2. I want to ask u all for some feedback about my mix sinse its out of the game.Thanks

Hi mate. There we go.
I prefer the voice would had had more presence. Otherwise, not bad balance. Nice BGV.
A bit of distortion on drums? Mainly toms.
Good solo, guitar and leslie relate quite well.
Your mix sound dryer than mine but, seemengly, this is what was required.
This is my modest contribution.
Greetings.

Mix notes

Firstly these mixes are generally very high quality so finding fault isn’t so easy however there are small details that could be addressed in most of them. This is a complex song of many dynamic parts and each section needs to be carefully approached as a one size fits all approach doesn’t work here. Also some attempts to pitch correct the voice have happened which is fine provided that it’s done with care and not making any if the notes pitched wrongly (which has happened on some mixes)

I forgot to mention that the bass guitar ideally should have some tremolo applied for the short jazzy section after “overthrow” and the heavy war section. Refer to the guide mix for how it should sound.

Need to correct the second round entries. I have removed Havol due to some really bad auto tuning changing some of the lead vocal notes.
Mainii was accidentally omitted from the list but it’s now reinstated.


Christoph K

Excellent mix overall. Good detailing and I really like the drum mix. It is set right in the mix which many mixes I don’t think got that part. I’d like to hear that last chorus lead vocal much more equal to the backing vocals as if they are all of equal value if possible?


Ozgen Sabuncu

I like the power in this mix but I feel the drums may benefit from being a bit quieter and the bass guitar could be brought up a small amount with perhaps a little less bottom end. Also I feel the compression could be dialled back on the drums too.

Dodgongrain

Sit the lead vocals back relative to backing vocals. Piano could be brighter and more to the front. I like the vocal processing in early part of the song.

Trackerjack

Lead vocals at beginning could be more spacey and effected. Tom fills feel like they need more weight. Middle 8 backing vocals (young man’s dream) feel a bit under processed and could be brighter and crunchier.

Hoek

Mix sounds slightly dull. Maybe brighten some of the elements? Compression seems a bit heavy handed on drums. Backing vocals need to come up quite a bit especially last chorus.

Lugh Sanderson

I like the prominence of the organ in the heavy section. This is something that people seem to have not got right in other mixes. Low end of mix needs more definition. I’d like to hear a crisper top end on the drum overheads. Backing vocals way too quiet


Ari5to5

Very clipped mix yet still loads of headroom available. Was an overall limiter used? Guitar solo seems to float in front of the mix in not a good way. Vocals are bit too dry. Snare drum sounds unnatural. Vocals are a little buried and could be louder overall.

Mannii

Very nice balanced mix with some great special fx. I feel the lead vocal gets a bit lost in the verse before last chorus although I really like the balance during that final chorus.

Scottfitz

Some really nice elements going on. I like the vocal treatment in the “Rifles fire” section. Snare seems to forward and over compressed. Needs to be placed a bit further in the mix. Lead guitar in war section is a bit underwhelming. Overall mix sounds too dark and needs to be livelier. More backing vocals overall.

Jw

Nicely balanced mix. Really like the elongated salute after 1st chorus.Feel like the mix needs more air or top end. Perhaps in cymbals and percussion? Acoustic guitars in last chorus could be panned wider.

Mork

Overall nice mix. BVs in mid 8 (young man’s dream) feel too back in the mix and should be stronger. Piano could sound a bit richer and bigger somehow.

1970studio

Drum panning needs attention. I’m feeling snare is too far right in mix. Backing vocals need to be up overall. I’d like to hear a bit more bass guitar definition.

O’mix

Nice vocal treatment in quiet early part. Bit too boomy in the bass. More organ in the heavy war section with less piano. Lead guitar lacks power here too. Drum mix needs to be brighter. As with many of the mixes I feel backing vocals are not loud an proud enough.

RuFerreira

The end chorus feels nice and epic with loud backing vocals which is what I want to hear. Snare sound splits at times. Bass guitar is a bit muddy. I’d like to hear the acoustic guitar brighter and more present in last chorus.

Asiohead

Very dry mix. Nice weight to everything but could do with some spacialising. Vocal especially is too dry. Backing vocals overall too quiet. Feel elements that would brighten the mix need to be lifted.

Thank you for handling the evaluation, @Gaz

Ladies and gentlemen, let us kick off Mix Round 2, which will end on Monday, 25-SEP-2023 23:59 UTC+2/CEST

As of this moment, that is 5 days (plus the hours since @Gaz's announcement, and I've updated the post). All Mix Round 2 participants will be sent a reminder via mail shortly.


There is a GLOBAL COUNTDOWN available to check for deadlines.
Just follow this link: Global Countdown (on homepage)



The following 15 participants go into Round 2 (alphabetical order), with "wild-cards" being pointed out (if present this month).
(all Mix Round 2 participants should have been pinged)

@1970studio
@ari5to5
@asiohead (Wild Card)
@Christoph_K
@Dodgingrain
@Hoek
@jw_
@LughSenderson
@Manii
@Mork
@O'MIX
@Ozgen Sabuncu
@RuiFerreira
@scottfitz
@trackerjack
.

!	Bonus Info
	Please read more about the "Wild Card" game mechanic here Mix Challenge - Addendum: Statistic Sheet and Wild Card Mechanic All Wild Card users are not only asked to apply the requested changes, but also to fix what they had at fault with Mix Round 1. Please use the following filename template: MC093__Rocketgoldstar__Born_Taurus_Man__ForumUsername_R2.wav

The feedback to the productions can be found here:
Please see post #214 for individual feedback.
Please see post #206 for general feedback and hints.



If you are unsure what to do exactly with your mix, reach out to the song provider and engage in a conversation here on the forum.
And please keep the Rules and Guidelines (post #6) in mind regarding submitting your entry.

Mannii

Very nice balanced mix with some great special fx. I feel the lead vocal gets a bit lost in the verse before last chorus although I really like the balance during that final chorus.

Hello Gaz,

I wanted to express my sincere gratitude for giving me this last-minute opportunity in the challenge. Your decision means a lot to me, and I truly appreciate it. I can't help but think that my inclusion at this point suggests that I have room for improvement that could set my mix apart. However, I'm also conscious of not straying too far from your vision.

Could you please clarify if the vocal balance issue before the last chorus is the only concern you have with my mix, or are there other specific or general areas you'd like me to address? Your feedback is invaluable, and I want to ensure that I'm aligning as closely as possible with your artistic vision for the song.

Naturally, I'm also considering your general feedback and will carefully analyze how it applies to my mix. I'll also take a close look at what you appreciate in other mixes to ensure that I can match your expectations for the track.

Once again, thank you for this opportunity, and I wish the best of luck to all the participants!

Warm regards,
Manii

PS:

reach out to the song provider and engage in a conversation here on the forum.

I assume you want us to have the conversation here rather than in private messages. Please let me know if I misinterpreted this and should rather engage with the song provider in direct messages.

Public conversation is okay...

If you don't get a response in a timely manner, I'll send @Gaz a quick reminder.

Hi and goodluck to every one.

I take paralel punch compression of durms off. Add mid freq to bass for being more upfront. Add tremolo to bass to suggested place. Add volume to the piano.

Here it is.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aSrMNy ... share_link

Render stats
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rTd6W_ ... share_link

To Manii (and everyone else taking part)

Your mix is really excellent! I really don’t have any major issues with it. However there are a few things that apply to all the mixes not just yours. This idea of making the backing vocals virtually equal to the lead vocal especially in last chorus is something I’d love to hear in all the mixes. I mentioned the tremolo bass in that jazzy section between middle 8 and heavy part, I’d like to hear that in all the mixes too.

Other things I’d encourage for everyone is to have fun with the sound effects, the synth sounds and radio noise etc. Pan them around maybe or apply sweeping volume automations. They are meant to give atmospheric effects to simulate elements of war and fear.

Incidentally the lyrics were inspired by the last gulf war where people were duped into fighting essentially by lies and propaganda. The setting for the song is the First World War and the horrific amount of cannon fodder. Working class people essentially sent to their deaths by an uncaring upper class.

Congrats to the top 15! And good luck on round 2!

Sadly, I’m the one who made a post 10 min after uploading my mix about my autotune mistake…I have no idea if that had anything and/or everything to do with my mix not being selected, but it was a good lesson none the less. I was rushing to meet the deadline and goofed it up a bit.

I’d still love any feedback on my mix from anyone willing to listen as it’s just nice to hear someone else’s perspective (aside from the auto tune glitching It’s on page 13. My explanation of my autotune mistake is on page 14 if you wanna read how I goofed up…but I basically forgot to take it off at the end of the mix, it was on as a reminder to possibly go in and manually tune if needed…and it’s pulling a few notes wildly out of tune unfortunately…doh! I felt terrible as the band does not even need any tuning.

Thanks!