Mix Challenge

Benedict Roff-Marsh wrote: ↑

Tue May 26, 2020 02:20 CEST

A Future in Noise "Andrew" - Really nice lead and use of sounds overall. It starts so strongly /.../ Maybe you didn't budget your time enough

Thanks, pal. Well, my entry was posted five minutes before midnight, May 24, so ...

A Future in Noise wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 15:53 CEST

I don't quite get this, what you mean?

I explained and motivated my voting decisions in each comment quite clearly.

Those which I put to first places, matched best the music examples that were given in this post:
https://mix-challenge.com/forum/viewtop ... 7614#p7614

I admit that my knowledge of differences between genres is very vague. (For example: where’s the line between soul and funk? I have no idea.) Therefore I tried to interpret the task more liberally according to these lines from the competition task:

1. you must try to fuse two or more genres with each other, and try to switch between them ever so often throughout the song
2. since we talk rock/metal , you must incorporate guitars in some shape or form (if you can't play guitar yourself, there are plenty of guitar samples available on the market)

But after having heard what DocJon, becsei_gyorgy, gruskada had done, and after listening the music examples again, I came to thought that I was wrong and my submission should be disqualified. In my current understanding those three had understood the task correctly. I’m not trying to force my way of thinking to others, I just want to be open in my decisions and clarify how I came to my conclusions.

Of course I'm not questioning your voting or your analysiz, @Olli H What i don't understand, from a language point of view, is this: "The submission that had only other element /.../ : One submission had neither style in my opinion /.../

Is one ore more words ommited? What does "only other element" mean?

A Future in Noise wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 17:53 CEST

Of course I'm not questioning your voting or your analysiz, @Olli H What i don't understand, from a language point of view, is this: "The submission that had only other element /.../ : One submission had neither style in my opinion /.../

Is one ore more words ommited? What does "only other element" mean?

Sorry for my bad English....and I'm having some technical difficulties in writing these texts...and my mind runs faster than my body...and by accident I easily omit words and letters. Etc.

What I tried to say:
One criterion for my system of calculation of points was that I was expecting to hear both 1) funk and 2) hard rock elements within song. If I felt that one or both of those genre elements were missing or were not there clearly enough, I dropped some points.

Olli H wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 18:45 CEST

One criterion for my system of calculation of points was that I was expecting to hear both 1) funk and 2) hard rock elements within song. If I felt that one or both of those genre elements were missing or were not there clearly enough, I dropped some points.

What I see are two different styles "GENRE: Avant-garde Metal / Funk Metal". SO we can choose from those two.

Because the track is collaboration project I include comments from both of us. Jilliam (Richard Watashi) send me his feedback so I add them here. I will mark it so you know who said what but I will always start with his words. I do also, as always include basic statistics for track to compare.

Jilliam: There is also my original track on my SoundCloud profile, that is quite different. And for our collaboration > even when Trojak didn't finish, like he says, it sounds not bad to me. I enjoyed the singing, well i am not a fan of using vocal libraries, but it doesn't matter. Whoever has sang it, has done a great job. Trojak's version is less dark than mine, in my opinion. But it could be a great score for a film, if finished. I like this version.

Now I would like also include link to this original, first version before I have touch it. Hope there is no problem with it.


---------------------------------------
Benedict Roff-Marsh - The Shifters

Jilliam: For me - the track could serve as a background to something. I like the lurking bit of darkness.

Great intro. Some nice sounds there. I'm fan of aleatoric style but for purpose of this track I think it is too long. It is great concept for underscore soundtrack for movie or game but here, the shorter version will fit better here. I also like the transition part that lead to main theme starting at 3 min. 3 minutes for introduction is quite too long. I find the beginning and also that transition more complex and more interesting then "main" part. I was awaiting more energy but it have that same feel as intro. It is just trying to feel different by introducing different instruments like that distorted guitar but it doesn't reach climax in any part. So yes composition is good and it really is an underscore music that act only as background for other media. Maybe that was your goal.

Now regarding overall feel in regards of theme. As I said sound in intro are good but then main part at 3 minutes, well sounds doesn't support the style. It is too synthetic for my ears, so I'm not able to put the track in metal or even rock style. I was expecting some more organic behavior for sounds. I heard some pure synth tracks that have more "live" feel. The sounds presets you used/made are kind of "stock" that were not tweaked to support the track. In this matter I already heard some great stuff made with pure synthesis for example in KVR OSC. So yes I know it can be done without samples but it need more work on sound design.

Statistics:
Max momentary loudness -8,6 LUFS
Max short-term loudness -10,1 LUFS
Integrated loudness -15,7 LUFS
Loudness range 14,6 LU
True peak L -0.35dB
True peak R -0.35dB
DC offset L -0.016% (-76.1dB)
DC offset R -0.016% (-75.9dB)

---------------------------------------
Olli H - I’m going crazy as I get older

Jilliam: The track has definitely it's qualities, i am sure of it. I did read once that there is a connection between depressed people and disliking Country Music. Don't know if it is actually truth, but it is truth in my case. But i tried to open myself to the song, and i think i could enjoyed it and even had a good fun.

Now track is nice and interesting but I do not hear any blend or transition of different styles. No sign of metal or even rock style guitar stuff. What I hear is kind of country stuff. As I said it is nice and interesting but not for chosen theme and style. Can't say much more about the track since this style of music is not something that I listen. I have absolutely no clue about it and I will even dare to try to make something in this style because I will definitely fail.

Mix sound good and balanced. There is nice stage. The first 15 seconds missing some air and there are some peaks in some frequencies that lead to some resonation. After that it sounds good.

Statistics:
Max momentary loudness -12,0 LUFS
Max short-term loudness -14,0 LUFS
Integrated loudness -16,7 LUFS
Loudness range 7,4 LU
True peak L -0.75dB
True peak R -0.78dB
DC offset L 0% (-136.9dB)
DC offset R 0% (-131.2dB)

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gruskada - Canary Release

Jilliam: I appreciate the guitar work, even when your guitar style isn't my taste. The rap performance with the guitar work reminded me of nu-metal bands in the style of P.O.D. or Crazy Town, but the vocals somewhat "didn't match the style", in my opinion, on the other hand i had fun listening. Sound happy and frisky.

This is my favorite. There is everything that have to be here. Mix of styles and ofc madness. Lyrics support the mood and composition. Really great work and I can tell you that even this is not my style I enjoy it. I really feel that madness that listening to it make me want to smash something .

Mix sound good and balanced. It have that kind of dirty sound that again support the track. Good seperation of instrument. Every have it is own place and not fighting each other yet they sound they are on same stage.

Statistics:
Max momentary loudness -10,0 LUFS
Max short-term loudness -11,7 LUFS
Integrated loudness -14,4 LUFS
Loudness range 5,6 LU
True peak L -0.99dB
True peak R -0.99dB
DC offset L +0.010% (-80.1dB)
DC offset R +0.015% (-76.3dB)

---------------------------------------
becsei_gyorgy - Legend of an angel (Heaven's War)

Jilliam: Glad that somebody has made something that reminds Metal Music. I like the track. I was thinking something like: "yea, this is catchy" when the rhythm guitar appeared.

Finally metal track. Good and interesting composition. I really like that guitar lead solo at 1 min but why so short? 7 seconds? I see there is extended version starting at 2:03 but here it doesn't fit very well and that extended part is not that good either. Now finale starting at 3:57 is cluttered. I know what your aim was but it doesn't work for me. It is more chaos and I do not mean musically. Every instrument here is fighting each other and I'm not able to focus to anything.

Mix sounds good but it is sterile a kind of polished or rather said perfect but not in good way in regards of the style. I would expected that type of sounds from synthesized music and not sampled instruments. Some instruments are not fit in mix well because of different reverb/room like example that horns. In some parts instruments interfere each other regarding frequency spectrum and most problematic part in this matter is that cluttered finale.

Statistics:
Max momentary loudness -8,4 LUFS
Max short-term loudness -9,3 LUFS
Integrated loudness -14,3 LUFS
Loudness range 11,9 LU
True peak L -0.45dB
True peak R -0.84dB
DC offset L -0.190% (-54.4dB)
DC offset R -0.135% (-57.4dB)

---------------------------------------
Doc Jon - Fastlife

Jilliam: At times i thought that it would sit in a commercial. When i hear a similar jam, i also remember old TV Sitcoms like Tim Allen.

Great track. Nice theme and mood, simple but cool. It doesn't have much madness in it but I still like it. Very nice lead guitar part starting at 2 minutes. That rhythm part feel bit repetitive after a while. Also even I do not like much funk stuff your implementation is great. Track feel more like funk rock instead of funk metal.

Mix is not bad but it is not tonally balanced. There is peak around 100Hz that comes from the bass. It makes the bass dominate a bit making loss of clarity. Some low-mid should need some boost around 400-600hz.

Statistics:
Max momentary loudness -11,0 LUFS
Max short-term loudness -12,1 LUFS
Integrated loudness -14,3 LUFS
Loudness range 3,9 LU
True peak L -0.79dB
True peak R -0.79dB
DC offset L +0.098% (-60.2dB)
DC offset R +0.095% (-60.5dB)

---------------------------------------
A Future in Noise - DrAndrew

Jilliam: I think i had a bit of fun listening to the track. It is also Country-influenced as SlowMotion by Olli, i guess. A funny song though - that can make my lips to move in a smile from the positive vibes.

Track have more calming feel especially at the beginning. Even later part starting at 1:27 that are trying incorporate some "chaos" and funk doesn't add any madness to track. I will also put the style in kind of pop category. Do not feel much style change even with that added funk part. It feel whole time like traditional pop song.

Regarding mix, since it is only mp3 that for sure have some problems because of compression, like everything above 16kHz is cut out feels balanced. Only slight decrease is sub and low frequencies from 40 to 100Hz could make it bit better.

Statistics:
Max momentary loudness -9,6 LUFS
Max short-term loudness -10,6 LUFS
Integrated loudness -14,0 LUFS
Loudness range 7,6 LU
True peak L -0.40dB
True peak R -0.27dB
DC offset L +0.005% (-85.7dB)
DC offset R +0.025% (-72.0dB)
---------------------------------------

For all about voting
I asked Jilliam to send me his voting list. I made also my. Since they are different I decide to make sub-voting and put points and count them similar like we do here. Since there were three draws in points, I asked him what to do now. He wanted me to decide. So based on points, Jilliam comments and my preference I have decided. I also including our votes and points. So there are

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 19:42 CEST

Olli H wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 18:45 CEST

One criterion for my system of calculation of points was that I was expecting to hear both 1) funk and 2) hard rock elements within song. If I felt that one or both of those genre elements were missing or were not there clearly enough, I dropped some points.

What I see are two different styles "GENRE: Avant-garde Metal / Funk Metal". SO we can choose from those two.

No, that was one things:
"a production in the so called "Avant-garde Metal"/Funk Metal genre"

Which was explained by MrFox:
"But the genre is basically nothing more than a blend of Experimental and Progressive Rock/Metal mixed with Funk elements. "

So two genres, and there should be switches between them:
"you must try to fuse two or more genres with each other, and try to switch between them ever so often throughout the song"

https://mix-challenge.com/forum/viewtop ... 7613#p7613

Olli H wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 20:01 CEST

No, that was one things:
"a production in the so called "Avant-garde Metal"/Funk Metal genre"

Which was explained by MrFox:
"But the genre is basically nothing more than a blend of Experimental and Progressive Rock/Metal mixed with Funk elements. "

So two genres, and there should be switches between them:
"you must try to fuse two or more genres with each other, and try to switch between them ever so often throughout the song"

https://mix-challenge.com/forum/viewtop ... 7613#p7613

There is One Winged Angel in examples. There are no funk elements there and Mister Fox write :"The following is technically not "Funk Metal", but still an interesting blend of Orchestra (switching between different types of classic genres) and Metal." So then bad example?

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 21:53 CEST

Olli H wrote: ↑

Wed May 27, 2020 20:01 CEST

No, that was one things:
"a production in the so called "Avant-garde Metal"/Funk Metal genre"

Which was explained by MrFox:
"But the genre is basically nothing more than a blend of Experimental and Progressive Rock/Metal mixed with Funk elements. "

So two genres, and there should be switches between them:
"you must try to fuse two or more genres with each other, and try to switch between them ever so often throughout the song"

https://mix-challenge.com/forum/viewtop ... 7613#p7613

There is One Winged Angel in examples. There are no funk elements there and Mister Fox write :"The following is technically not "Funk Metal", but still an interesting blend of Orchestra (switching between different types of classic genres) and Metal." So then bad example?

This months genre: Avant-garde Metal / Funk Metal

And if Mister Fox said that ”One Winged Angel” is not Funk Metal, then it was NOT an example of this month’s genre. That’s my logic. Maybe it was just a good example of ”an interesting blend of Orchestra and Metal”, but not at all an example of this month’s genre.

Actually, I have no whatsoever interest in this kind of debate what someone else might have meant. I already have misinterpreted the theme once, so probably I’m wrong again.

Looks like the time I invest for finding possible sources for you to get inspired by, and to get an understanding in terms of which route a specific songwriting competition should go, is still not enough if we have these recurring discussions.


Back to the drawing board I go.