Mix Challenge

Hello
I give you my opinion of your work. Good job overall

Arelem - Under My Skin
You commented that you had put the most present voices. I haven’t been able to differentiate it, but it must be my fault that I don’t have a well-trained ear.
Powerful theme. At first I was surprised by the use of drums, with a very electronic sound and far from the most conventional heavy, but reading your comments from your first post I understood.
I admire the precision with which you reach an almost perfect limit. I will heed your technical comments.

Reply to our previous conversation. I haven't had time to change the topic. Maybe the stitch will change. I don't think so.


becsei_gyorgy_I_am_different
Good intro, with very powerful and very cool bass. Interesting retro style. Funny the effects you're putting here and there, but they end up a little confusing. The claps too forced for my taste.
The voice has some problems with breathing too present.
As for the levels everything is ok.

Mobiledrummer_Another_Whirligig
I didn't understand the intro: An electric piano sounds and then everything changes. I'm confused.
The sound of the main synthesizer, the tune is fine. It has a retro style.
The theme may become a bit repetitive at the end. It lacks some variation, some surprise.
The mix is ​​good.

OlliH_KiertelenJaKaartelen
Very curious lyrics of your song. It's very uncommon to talk about these topics. Voices with this unknown foreign language are hypnotic.
The bass may be too present and little high range, but the rest is fine. Good choice of instruments, guitars, piano, drums. Really well.
The voice might win with a little more distance, more reverb (as it says becsei_gyorgy)

aFutureInNoise_CaesarIsComing
It is interesting to recognize your voice through the songs you are presenting.
Curious work on the situation of the voice (in the center) and the instruments placed on the sides. It seems unnatural to me, there is too much contrast. But good mix, which leaves space for instruments.
Maybe it would give more strength to the voice.
Achievable and retentive melodies.
In the end, it took me a while.

J.Ruegg & Lila_Runner
You’re right, voices can be improved, but apologize to the dams you say you did. Now you have to keep working on the song to get more integrated into the theme.
I may find the EDM style debatable, but it's a matter of taste. I'm not very modern .
The rest is fine, good mix of the rest of the instruments. But don’t be discouraged, because with more time things would have been better.

(translated with google)

Commenting process is mentally easy for me, but the voting process is always pure pain.
To make it easier for me, I have always wanted to keep my evaluation process clear and open. As this months genre is rock/pop I decided to use following checkpoints

Melody: 0-10/10
Arrangement: 0-5/5
Sound: 0-5/5
Engagement: 0-5/5

So I gave to melody line more importance. With Engagement I mean something abstract, subjective experience like how the music connection to the listener, in this case to me. If given total points were the same, I checked the melody points.

========

Mobiledrummer: Another Whirligig

Lots of nice ideas in this. Groove Rolls skilfully all the time. You surely have great arrangement skills. Especially you seem to know how to create small and important details to drum groove. Furthermore, the bass line interacts with drums very nicely. Together they create a very strong backbone to your submission.

But as this is a songwriting competition, as such I think your submission is missing clear focus point for ear to follow. This way it feels more like a great backing track where the lead instrument/vocal is muted.

It would be difficult to sing along this as the melody line is having big interval jumps all the time. For the same reason it’s a bit difficult to remember. So, now these melody lines sound more like supportive counter-melody lines, not the main melody lines. But the way it is now, it would work nicely as a support for the (missing) primary vocal/melody line.

Soundwise everything is probably too stereo now. If some synths (not all) were a bit more mono, it would be easier for ear to follow what’s happening. And the sound stage would be even more 3-dimensional. But if you were to add a simple and catchy main melody line, I'm sure this track would be sonicwise a perfect the way it is now.

From the mood of this song, the old "Love Boat Theme" came to my mind. Although it doesn't use any synths, it still might be a good reference song to use while mixing. Listen how those mono sounding instruments "Love Boat" together create a nice 3-dimensional sound stage.

Melody: 5/10
Arrangement: 4/5
Sound: 4/5
Engagement: 4/5
TOTAL 16


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J.Ruegg: Runner

Very nice opening. The vocals are very expressive and soulful.

The great beginning creates a big expectation for this song. Everything works very nicely to the point when the chorus comes in. But then something happens. As if the chorus is taken from another song. Or maybe the chorus is too similar to verses, but still not the same. Whatever is the cause, to me, it feels that chorus never comes. The rest of the song feels to be some sort of eternal and constantly changing prechorus loop.

Still, despite the criticism, I think you’ve got something special here. Although the points given by me don't show it, I think this is the song which has the biggest potential in it. If you work a little bit more with this, you’ll get absolutely great and unique song.

If I were to make an arrangement for this song, I might take some guidance from Fleetwood Mac’s ”Go Your Own Way”: first, the opening the way you have it now, then drums in with some weird groove, and then into chorus with more simple straight drums and shakers. (I don't mean that the groove as such should be borrowed, but the bigger idea of rhythmical movement from plain and simple to weird and finally to strong and straight.)

Minor point: synth chords, that hit with the beat one, feel like they are rhythmically dragging behind. Maybe the attack curve of the synth sound is too slow and energy point comes a bit too late, i.e. it's not meant to be used as rhythmic element but more like a smooth pad.

If we had here "arrangement competitions", this one could provide a perfect material to it: a song with absolutely great potential that hasn't come to bloom yet. (@Mister Fox: Actually, "arrangement competitions" might be an interesting middle step to lure people from mixing competitions to songwriting competitions. Now the gap between "mixing" and "songwriting" is probably too big and scary for many mixing hobbyist to take.)

Melody: 6/10
Arrangement: 2/5
Sound: 3/5
Engagement: 4/5
TOTAL 15


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EsteveCorbera: ViscaEls80

You have great arrangement skills, groove flows nicely all through the song. Technically you surely have talent to do whatever.

As with some other submissions I feel your melody lines feel more like supportive lines, not the main melody lines. So in that sense it feels to me that this song is missing the main message carrier. For that reason it's a bit difficult for my mind to connect to this song. As such it could be perfect for some documentary film, where the music's role is more to emphasise message, and not to steal attention from the main story (visual or spoken).

The kick is very dominantly giving 1-2-3-4 beat (one bar loop). I personally start to wait and wish some sort of variations. But later, when the change comes (1-2-and-3-4), for some reason, it doesn't have a right effect to me. It feels a little like street bumps. Maybe the velocity with "and" should be smoother. Or, at the point when the change comes, I might try longer loop, for example 2-bar loop:
... and | 1-2-3-4 | 1-2-and-3-4-and | 1-2-3-4 | 1-2-and-3-4-and |... Well, I may be totally wrong, that was just an untested quick idea from a hobbyist who is not familiar with this genre.


Melody: 5/10
Arrangement: 4/5
Sound: 4/5
Engagement: 3/5
TOTAL 16

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becsei_gyorgy: I'm Different

Very well done!

Arrangement is just perfect. Nothing to add.

Sound is already great the way it is. So not much to add there. Well, maybe the overuse of sound effects maybe diminishes sonic experience a bit.

If I were to mix this, I might try to use Phill Collins’ version of the classic ”Love Don’t Come Easy” as a reference. It might give some small hints to add some small anti-midi sound levels to the final sound.

So, to me, your musical skills seem to be superb. No doubt about that! This would have been a clear winner candidate for me, BUT as the great and catchy melody lines are probably taken from some sample library, it’s a bit difficult to evaluate this from the point of view of songwriting competition. To me, this is more like a great production submission, not a songwriting submission. But still, you have added very nice lines in other parts that show you could have done great melody lines by your self. (If I have understood the situation wrongly, and also those vocal melody lines are made by you, I’m ready and glad to give full 10/10 for the melody.)


Melody: 3/10
Arrangement: 5/5
Sound: 4/5
Engagement: 3/5
TOTAL 15


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A Future In Noise: Caesar Is Coming

First of all, this is great song with strong and bold mood. That's the main thing I want to say.

Then some minor details/ideas to make it even better:

To me your chorus is melodically great, but verses feel a bit weaker. The rhythm of lyrics in choruses flow nicely, but in verses last lines feel rhythmically a bit clumsy. Well maybe also the last word "this" in choruses comes a bit detached. I like the idea of it being alone, but maybe some small instrumentation tricks might glue it more to the main sentence.

Another point of view, it may be so that current arrangement in micro level doesn’t yet support melody lines in verses optimally yet. For some reason the sparse instrumentation without drums in verses doesn’t roll fluently. But in choruses the arrangement and melody line go together perfectly. But still I feel that the big view in your arrangement works nicely. So I'm not proposing to add more drums to verses.

To fix small arrangement and sound details I might use as a reference Jayhawks’ song ”Angelyne”. For example, listen how they start with double guitars, then add drums, and every now and then go back to drumless accompaingement.

To me, the reverb in guitars is not optimal yet. Now they create a bit unnatural distant space. I might try less reverb with emphasis more on early reflection and then pan the guitars more to left and right. That might give more depth to the overall sound.

The use of pads gives a bit uncertain feeling. As if you are just testing different pad sounds, and then time run out and you just decided to publish it.

But overall, and main thing is, I feel you have made a strong song that connects me to something. I end up listening, and I forget to analyze. That’s what should happen with music. You managed to give both "a ride" and "ammunition" to the listener.

Afterwards, having listened this song quite many times, for certain reasons it came to my mind that this song might work perfectly with totally different arrangement. For example how about similar simple treatment that one anti-establishment Vladimir — that is to say Vladimir Vysotsky — gives to his strong songs. Listen, for example, ”He Did Not Return From Battle”. Focus is 100% in vocals and lyrics. Although I don't understand a word of that language, I feel that guy said something important. And afterwards one doesn’t even remember that there was a band at all, although it had a quite a big role.

Melody: 7/10
Arrangement: 3/5
Sound: 2/5
Engagement: 5/5
TOTAL 17


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Arelem: Under My Skin

This one is great and skillfully done! The vision is coherent throughout.

Clear catchy intro. After 2 seconds I can hear that this one works and connects. Clear motivated changes from verse to prechorus to chorus. Focus point for listening is clear all through the song. It's easy to roll along with this song.

I like your voice. It has some kind of "street cred" in it. You have a skill to tell a story. Maybe you could boldly enhance that aspect of your voice in your mix. Now you have given a bit shy treatment to your voice.

Maybe chorus arrangement could give more rolling feeling in contrast to staccato riffs prominent in other parts. Now chorus feels more like a great prechorus. I end up waiting chorus to come. Or maybe another added guitar or whatever with straight 8:th part beat might fix this issue. Or smoothly rolling guitar solo might fix the problem and satisfy my longing for the rolling chorus.

Melody: 8/10
Arrangement: 4/5
Sound: 4/5
Engagement: 5/5
TOTAL 21

A friendly reminder:
We're in the final 24 hours to submit your feedback and cast your vote.


Please don't let yourself be put at a disadvantage by not participating. The Songwriting Competition lives from the given feedback towards each other. Outside feedback is welcome, of course.

I'm sorry I could not provide full reviews. What I have commented on below are mainly observations of the type individual small details. Hope it works, and that the comments can be of some use. (If I have time, later tonight, I might add a few lines here or there. However, the order will not be disturbed, in that case; I have decided who will win first prize, and so on.)

mobiledrummer - Another Whirligig:
The first thing I noticed when I heard this track was the bass line. It is very well sounding all the way from start to finish, and this applies to the timbre, volume and the "line" itself with the associated choice of tones, that is, the performance. (But I dare not guess what kind of bass it is.) That a distinct "melody" might be lacking (which I think one or a couple of the other six reviewers have pointed out) was not something that came into my mind the first time I listened ; not even now, after the fourth listening, I think it matters (in this particular case, that is - when it comes to this particular song).

Olli H - KiertelenJaKaartelen:
Although I hear that at least two electric guitars are involved here, I do not really dare to comment on what type it is (and if it is completely genuine or sampled partially?). A steel guitar and a semi-acoustic guitar the way they were used in the late 50's or early 60's? In any case, both sound good and stylistically they fit with the song's style and genre. (By the way, a guitar with a more obvious dist comes in at 2:36; it sounds nice too, although I'm a little doubtful if it fits with your choice of genre and style.)

And here we come to a problem (for me): What is the genre? Finnish tradional songs made popish? I'm not sure if I've ever heard a single Finnish (folk-)song; in Sweden we have had artists like Vreeswijk and Åkerström, but they didn't sound like this! I also think I hear a bit of melancholy: in that case it must be Finnish melancholy, which in that case differs somewhat from Swedish melancholy.

It is melodic appealing from start to finish and a bit “relaxing”. (By the way: you repeat two or three times (for example at 2:30) a phrase that sounds to me like "holy land". However, I do not see anything like that in the English translation. How do you translate "holy land" from Finnish to English?)

Arelem - Under My Skin:
I usually like your tracks almost every time you participate, and so it is this month. But as usual, I also have a hard time going into details, because your music is so different from mine. But anyway: The synth that starts at 0:29 is a good idea. Although it's clearly a synth I almost get the impression it's a human choir. The sound of it fits in well. Your track is rather rough and intense, so maybe two minutes is the optimal lenght in order not to make the audience exausted. I will possibly give you more feedback, if only time does not run out for me.

EsteveCorbera - ViscaEls80:
Some brief reflections:

The whole soundscape shows that you are making great progress from month to month.

01:54: The synth that comes in here makes an almost humorous impression, but it still sounds good, at the same time as it makes the track sound more vivid.

02:35: The coloring of the chord that comes here sounds very good.

01:06: The melodic main theme (D, A, #F, E, D, #C, A, D, B), which begins here, is then repeated a little too often. More variety is needed.

becsei_gyorgy – I'm Different:
Yes, this really is different, no matter how you look at it. It's different from what you usually do, for example. First 22 seconds promises a happy, lightweighted pop song.

0:38: I think I perceive a minor chord here (?) which does not really fit.

Hand claps (sometimes to the right and sometimes to the left – why?) doesn't seem to fit. Also lots of other sounds (whisteling, shoutings, yernings) … Could you mention at least one Bilbord top 100 track from the last 30 years that is built up like this? I have never ever heard a tune with so many strange sounds. It's very hard for me to kind of delete the myriad of ”extra-sounds” in my mind so I can judge what this would sound like without them. Pop/rock is probably not the gengre you're really interested in. When you write orchestral pieces, it's obvious you have much better knowledge as to how to do it.

J.Ruegg & Lila – Runner:
Singer doesn't always hit the right pitch. Despite of this I'd recommend more practise. 'Cause she has a voice which sounds pleasant to me and also has the right ”color” for a track like this.

0:48: Bass is a little too strong and dominant. And almost four minutes remains from here, and it gets rather monotone. The snare that sounds a little like a clap (or is it hand claps that is used as snare?) is used far too much, especially since there is no variation in terms of dB or round robins.

There are so many great submissions in this round. Apart from the one I think is a clear winner, I had a hard time voting this time. You all did great.

Aralem - Under My Skin:
This song has great energy. It is well crafted with a coherent vision. In terms of songwriting, I don't have many comments at all. Well done!
One thing is that the vocals might need a bit more work, maybe some auto-tune? Also, maybe some more variations on the main guitar parts to keep the interest up? Especially if you decide to make it a bit longer to the standard 3.30 length.

EsteveCorbera - ViscaEls80:
This song has a nice vibe to it, 80's with a touch of "modern" synthwave. Overall, I like the production, synth sounds, and drums.
After the intro, which is nice, I feel that the melody parts could be a bit more engaging. The song might also benefit from some more dynamic and sonic changes throughout.

becsei_gyorgy - I'm Different:
The production sounds great, and the arrangement is very good.
One thing is that the added Fx do not really fit, and they are perhaps somewhat distracting.
Perhaps it tries a bit too much to be fun? Also, I got a feeling that parts of the song were put together from different sample packs. That is totally fine. But maybe the song would benefit from more processing of these samples in order to add a more personal touch?

Olli H - Kiertelen ja kaartelen:
I like this a lot. Beautifully crafted song. Compared to the other contributions, this is really in a class of its own. I only have a technical comment about the mix. The low end is a bit too prominent and the bass could be lowered a few dB.
Being from a small town in Sweden a couple of hours drive from Finland, I wish I had learned more Finnish...

Hyvä ja hyvin tehty laulu!

A Future in Noise - Caesar Is Coming:
Mycket bra gjort! Great lyrics that make you think about what is going on in the world today. Somehow, it got me thinking about the lyrics in Mark Knopfler's "Done with Bonaparte" (although that one is more from a first person perspective).
There are great melodies here. I'm not so sure about the pad/string sound and what they are playing, though. They seem a bit like they don't really belong there.

J.Ruegg - Runner:
Not my style of music, but I think I can spot a diamond in the rough. This is the submission that has the most potential to reach a wide audience. It is also the one that is closest to "contemporary pop". I will disregard some technical issues and give this a high score.
I would try to make the chorus a bit more engaging, it should have that elusive "lift" from the verse to the chorus. For me, the line "Head to head, heart to heart" is the focal point. I would work backwards from that. I don't mind that it is a bit of a surprise going from verse to the chorus.
I would perhaps also "sprinkle" more vocal background harmonies throughout. These can really "lift" the vocal parts even more (the vocals might need a bit of auto-tune). After all, in sparse modern pop productions, vocals are even more important than was the case a few decades ago...
The drums kind of work, but I would pay more attention to their flow throughout the song. I would just import some modern pop song, see how they did it and get some inspiration. As with the vocals, drums (especially the kick) is of course a central element these days.

It's the 02nd April 2022, 06:00 (UTC+2/CEST) - the Voting Period has officially ended.

Sadly, not all participants have submitted final feedback, we would therefore have 1 disqualification.

I just sent out another newsletter to those particular participants (@J.Ruegg), give you until the end of Saturday, 02-APR-2022. If there is a feedback and a vote by the participant in question, only -5 points will be deducted from the scoresheet. Else, sadly a disqualification.


Once I have this feedback as well, I will post the results within 2-3 days and take "late feedback" into consideration.
(this is not an automated process)


Please have an eye on this thread

Thanks for the feedbacks.
About my song: Unfortunately the whole irony and giggle didn’t come through completely for everyone (maybe you shouldn’t take music making too seriously), next time, I promise I’ll try it seriously.
I also agree with "too many FX" critiques about my song (I was also a little lazy for other variations).
On the other hand, I might respond to one or two comments, as my description of how the song was made was really concise and to clarify a bit.

mobiledrummer wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 01, 2022 19:20 CEST

Also, I got a feeling that parts of the song were put together from different sample packs. That is totally fine. But maybe the song would benefit from more processing of these samples in order to add a more personal touch?

I think i should take this as a personal insult
When I made the song I used 17 instances of Serum. First I made a musical base (bass, drums, one or two fx) on a common D'major progression, then when I had the right arrengement, structure and musical base for the song, I searched Loopcloud for a suitable vocal parts that I cut, made chops, used fx's and so on.
Yes, the vocal pieces are from a properly licensed package (the vocals of the verse and chorus were otherwise completely dry originally),
I don't understand what other sample pieces or processing you mean. (the sound of the kick?, or the fx'es? or should I have made the "huh" fx's myself?)
I don’t know how I could add more personal touch (apart from my voice, which - believe me! - you better not hear).

Olli H wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 31, 2022 16:16 CEST

This would have been a clear winner candidate for me, BUT as the great and catchy melody lines are probably taken from some sample library, it’s a bit difficult to evaluate this from the point of view of songwriting competition. To me, this is more like a great production submission, not a songwriting submission. But still, you have added very nice lines in other parts that show you could have done great melody lines by your self.

Yes, I understand what you mean, and I accept it (I saw that In a previous competition, you have already given 0 points to someone else if the vocals were not original in the sense that the vocals came from samples).
I’m sorry because even though I haven’t done this much in the past, I’ll do it more often in the future. It is not always the case that a singer is at hand, and due to the shortness of time in this competition, there is often no time for proper cooperation with a singer (although I have had this several times before). Anyway, this is a completely common way to make (original) music (songs). Especially in dance music. Many of the songs on the Beatport TOP100 list are made from such vocal samples. Quite big names also use this. And believe me, it's not at all as easy as you might think at first.
I understand your position, but since the rules don't forbid it here either, maybe I'll apply it another time - if at all...


And thank you everyone for taking part in the competition, I hope - even if not every month - you all come back here because creating music is good and often pure fun.

becsei_gyorgy wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 02, 2022 08:02 CEST

I think i should take this as a personal insult
When I made the song I used 17 instances of Serum.

Ahh you used Serum, that is why it sounded like it came from a sample pack
But seriously, I'm sorry if I offended you. That was not my intention at all. My comment was not really written well. I think I drifted away from your song and started to think about using sample packs in general. I don't really care if a song is written, produced, and played by Mozart himself, or if every single track in the DAW is taken from sample packs. A good song is a good song. And your song is great! I think I wanted to make a general point - not about your song in particular - about how important it is to make the samples your own, in the sense that they express what you as a songwriter want to say. That could be done in many ways. Through arrangement, chopping them up, or by adding various effects etc. Anyway, you are right. Making music should definitely be fun!

mobiledrummer wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 02, 2022 15:24 CEST

becsei_gyorgy wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 02, 2022 08:02 CEST

I think i should take this as a personal insult
When I made the song I used 17 instances of Serum.

But seriously, I'm sorry if I offended you.

No, not at all. Just kidding.
In any case, thank you for the clarification, so it is clearer what you meant by your post. I appreciate.

Thanks for all comments!

Arelem wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 30, 2022 01:04 CEST

Olli H – The bass is a little overpowering in the low/low-mid area.

That's very true, now that I listen it again with better headphones, I hear the problem clearly. I had Bruce Springsteens dark sounding "Ghost of Tom Joad" as a reference, and it has bass that is hugely overpowering. It just sounds great with Bruce. I tried to do similiar, but ovbiously I didn't have the needed skill for that.

becsei_gyorgy wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 30, 2022 18:54 CEST

What I really miss is the high range. The soundscape isn't balanced, which is already particularly annoying on some headphones (especially one that gives a little more bass). On a smaller speaker, this is less confusing.

That's also true. Especially if I do the pink noise balance test, which I use quite often. But in this one I was deliberately after a bit darker sound, as introspective energies typically seem to abide in deeper frequencies and not so much in higher frequencies. Along with the forementioned Bruce, I used also some darker songs of Billie Eilish as my reference. They seem to also lack the high range. But as with the low end, I'm sure that hi-end of my mix is not yet optimal.

A Future in Noise wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 01, 2022 14:50 CEST

Although I hear that at least two electric guitars are involved here, I do not really dare to comment on what type it is (and if it is completely genuine or sampled partially?).

All the guitars and ukulele were real. There's actually some annoying string noises that I should have fixed, but I ran out of time. I'm not sure anymore, but I guess I used my Jazz Gibsons bridge mic. I have replaced Gibson own PAF humbugger with a "legendary" P90 mic that is well known of it's rockabilly sound.

A Future in Noise wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 01, 2022 14:50 CEST

And here we come to a problem (for me): What is the genre? Finnish tradional songs made popish? I'm not sure if I've ever heard a single Finnish (folk-)song;

Genre? I was inspired by Billie Eilish introspective songs, and I guess they belong to modern pop. My songs is still quite far away from that stuff, but anyhow, I'm glad to label my song as an introspective pop. Is that correct. No idea.

A Future in Noise wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 01, 2022 14:50 CEST

in Sweden we have had artists like Vreeswijk and Åkerström, but they didn't sound like this!

I'll certainly will check Vreeswijk and Åkerström. Thanks for tip. Actually I have listened very much Lisa Ekdalh. She belongs to my favorites.

A Future in Noise wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 01, 2022 14:50 CEST

I also think I hear a bit of melancholy: in that case it must be Finnish melancholy, which in that case differs somewhat from Swedish melancholy.

I guess finnish melancoly can be best understood by describing what is finnish joy. Check this image:
https://www.boredpanda.com/very-finnish ... mes/#post3
Also other pictures in that page describe quite accurately Finnish state of mind.

mobiledrummer wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 01, 2022 19:20 CEST

Hyvä ja hyvin tehty laulu!

Tack så mycket. I finska skolor har det varit obligatoriskt att studera svenska. Jag är tacksam för det. Jag ofta läser nyheter från svt.