Mix Challenge

Hello fellow challengers!

I really enjoyed this challenge and enjoyed listening to all the entries. Thanks for sharing! Here's my feedback and votes etc. Cheers! : )

My experience: Feedback: Top 3:

Disclaimer: I'm no expert for that genre. Though I'm raised on tons of Prog, I rarely consume (and like) Metal.
I'm no expert either on things like loudness, elaborate EQing /mixing /mastering.
So, here I just & merely spill out my (harsh) opinion about how well I regard the goal met.
As said: No expert :: Totally biased opinion(s) :: Hopefully not too harsh

My experience Rating
Comments

Things I have learned during this month’s competition:
This month I learned how to cope with the frustration of mixing to a -14LUFS limit when working in a typically ‘loud’ genre such as rock/metal. It made me look at my mix much more closely than usual to trim away any unwanted stuff to maximise my headroom but I’m still not sure I was particularly successful. (I have already made a new ‘rule-breaking loud’ mix ready to upload after the competition is over!!)

Feedback Voting

Hello friends,
I’m still happy that I managed to submit my first entry here at SWC. I’m mostly a classical composer, and working with Kror Amfpten I learned a lot more about MIDI-editing and the possibilites of composing directly in DAW, without using notation software.

My overall impression of the entries is that they all sounds very good mixed and mastered, and I will definetely work more on that for myself. I have for each entry evaluated musical quality of composition, sound of mix, overall impression and how the song fits the progrock/”motion”-task of SWC075.

Feedbacks Top3

Good night,

Based on the votes so far, I see that I have to dedicate myself to soundtracks.
Jokes aside, this month has been a challenge that has made me research and leave my comfort zone. I have to say that this type of music is completely unknown to me. Therefore, it is possible that he did not make a suitable track and that he does not know how to give you good feedback either.
I had to research time signatures in music.
I also have to thank Mister Fox for organizing the challenge with things that make us leave our comfort zone. Precisely for this reason I would like to receive your feedback, Mister Fox. Thanks.


I will give you some brief comments.

Arelem - Eternal Odyssey
good topic I agree with you that this month you can be satisfied.
You have made music very much in your style.
Good vocals, good mix, good drums and good lyrics in the song.
Actually I can't say too well, because I find everything very correct.

Api_ZZ – MonumentalMemorandum
Curious mix of elements: organ, guitars, orchestra... You're right when you say you've done something more progressive than metal.
I love the organ and some of the guitar progressions give it a rock opera feel.
Good theme, varied, doesn't get boring, several pieces that fit together very well. Good progressive music.

Brandon740 (BrandonOgilvie) – Resource
I like the beginning, very calm. When the battery comes in it is also very good. The theme progressed in a very original way until the entrance of the more aggressive guitars. Maybe this part is the one I find least interesting, I guess it also influences the fact that I don't like this type of music.
I definitely stick with the opening half of the song. Very good. It reminds me a little of Agean Sea, the absolute masterpiece of Aphrodite's Child (in this case the work of the genius Vangelis).
The end a bit abrupt. I don't quite like this lowering of the volume.

Doc Jon - EscapeFromCity17
Damn, what a pass.
Just a negative comment, it reminds me more of a pop/rock track than metal. That said, the rest is great. Fun topic to listen to. The lyrics that go well with the music. I really like this style.
The more metal part is left for me, but of course, this month I had to do it that way.
good mix Good composition, good rhythms, very good everything.

Chrisantimos – Kror_Amfpten
Beginning with very curious and original harp. Surprising, even. The guitars are a secondary thing, with the harp and moog-like sounds taking center stage. Very interesting jazz influences.
As DocJon says, the best harp this month.
For me it is very far from metal but very good the part of changes of measure.

LadyI ncognita - Momentum
Very gothic metal song. I wanted to get on a motorcycle and go for miles listening to your song.
I love half-track guitars. Very exciting, very strong.
Perhaps the battery would stand out more. And add distortion to the vocals to give a little more rawness and strength. The ending was too abrupt, I wanted the song to last longer.

becsei_gyorgy – GoddessOfTime
Listening to the voices of your song this month, I imagine a fat guy with a beard, a hat and singing quietly in front of the microphone.
The least interesting part of your subject, as you say, is the guitars. The rest is very original and in very good condition. It's always hard to find things to improve in your music.

(translated with google)

Impossible to vote this month. I don't know who to choose.
I need to be able to vote for more people.

A friendly reminder:
We're in the final 24 hours to submit your feedback and cast your vote.


Please check post #024 regarding the feedback and voting mechanic. Please don't let yourself be put at a disadvantage by not participating (fully). The Songwriting Competition lives from the given feedback towards each other.

Outside feedback is welcome, of course.

Hello All,

I had a hard time really figuring out what makes rock or metal prog. From some of your feedbacks, it sounds like I still didn't quite get there. That's ok though because I still think I managed a pretty solid song. I tried singing in a different style for the verses and I think it sounded pretty good. I might have to experiment with that a little more in the future.

Feedback Vote

It's the 02nd December 2023, 05:40 (UTC+1/CET) - the Voting Period has officially ended.

Sadly, not all participants have submitted final feedback, we would therefore have 1 disqualification.

I will send out another newsletter/message to those particular participants (@Brandon740), give you until the end of Saturday, 02-NOV-2023 as per the rule book on the voting process ("overtime mechanic"). If there is a feedback and a vote by the participant in question, only -5 points will be deducted from the scoresheet. Else, sadly a disqualification.

Once I have this feedback as well, I will post the results within 2-3 days and take "late feedback" into consideration.
(this is not an automated process)


The only disqualification criteria is by "not participating" with feedback at the end of the game. Time constraints can happen -- but I do not consider entries to be "withdrawn" at this point. You unfortunately just didn't have the time.

Everyone else, please no more changes to your vote. Thank you.


Please have an eye on this thread

It's the 03rd December 2023, 07:15 (UTC+1/CET) - the Voting Period extension has officially ended.

Unfortunately, not everyone has sent in feedback and cast a vote (still). We therefore have 1 disqualification.


Please no more changes to your feedback from this point forward.
I will post the results within 2-3 days. (this is not an automated process)


Please have an eye on this thread

Technically, I announced that I won't be giving any feedback or cast a vote. However, this month's genre was a bit tricky, and I want to at least give some positive words of encouragement on the way.

Most of you tackled a genre, that you usually don't even dabble in. And I am delighted to see you "try" and learn from this experience. I hope to see similar attempts in the future.

Although, let me please reiterate once again - you are never forced to add any lyrics during the Songwriting Competition. Don't pressure yourself. Focus on a great piece of music first, then take it a step further (if you want to). On that behalf, to those giving feedback, a track with vocals doesn't automatically have to mean "higher scores" either. Let the music/arrangement speak just as loudly.




Feedback (in order of how the entries were submitted):


@Arelem:
I think the biggest criticism here, is the sound for the guitars. A different amplifier would have done wonders, or maybe even just a different guitar cabinet. If you then heavily compress and then distort the bass guitar, to bring out the "attack" of the instrument, you might get a better balance overall. Also, since you used "RealEight"... keyswitches and humanize features - else the guitar feels choppy.

Another thing I noticed - there are some intricate background details with some more guitar riffs. But you barely hear them cutting through. They could have been louder. With the vocals, I would have actually opted for a delay (ducked even) and not the reverb you've used. Or... a touch more delay (if you used that) and only a subtle reverb. Maybe even pull the vocals down just a tad (-1dB) to blend a bit more into the mix.



@APi_ZZ:
Some very interesting ideas here with the switching of sections, and even some "Pachebel" thrown in there? As with my feedback for the first entry, the weakest part here are the guitars (which is not an easy thing to create a good sound for). You could have pushed the amp a bit more.

Unfortunately, the section around 0:45 with a switch in drums and "clean guitars" also throws you a bit for a loop (the clean bass in the "bridge sections" is way too loud!). The volume feel all over the place for the sections, with the "intro drums" being too quiet compared to the rest (it's as if you used 3-4 different drum kits). However, you mentioned in your feedback/vote section that mixing is not your strong suit. I would have used the drums from the first section for the whole song, but actually raised the snare in volume a bit (maybe even give a bit more upper mids, to cut more through the mix), and then only switched up the hi-hat play.

You want a cohesive experience - vour ears are your best judge. For example, the "toms" in the end section shouldn't be louder than the overall drum kit. I would still say, great experiment - mixing is something that comes with experience.



@Brandon740:
Now this entry really set the bar high for everyone, and really pushes what I imagined to hear for SWC075. Unfortunately, you abandoned the game and neither provided documentation, nor participated with the voting process (your only way to get disqualified). Shame really - also considering that you were basically the "participants favorite".

My only complaints are with the mix in general. I find the reverb a bit "too stadium" for this song. Additionally, the song feels like it has a "blanket" over it, very lower mid-range heavy while the high frequencies have been dulled out. Else, the overall balance in this mix is great. I would have not(!) done this fade out though. It's not smooth, but sudden.



@EsteveCorbera :
As with every month, you're really trying to push yourself, do something new and dabble in realms you're usually not comfortable with. That is admirable. However, there is so much room for more with this entry. The used guitar amplifier sounds are just not the right ones for this particular song. Maybe some hints: the "lead guitar" could have a different / stronger distortion - the input signal (DI) was already quite compressed, but the amp wasn't "screaming" yet (hints: EQ in front of the amp, boosted around 3,3kHz with about 2-3 dB, and then sent about 3-4dB "hotter" into the amp, over-driving the input stage more, giving you a better lead sound). It's also super harsh... you could have rolled off high frequencies down to 8kHz easily. Also... "vibrato" for a lead melody is a thing.

Same goes for the rhythm guitars. Different amps, different feel. Sustained chords definitely work better, rather than the "chugging" ones -- but this also depends on the source sound/instrument. The drums also have way too harsh high hats (in my opinion). It's furthermore nice to hear synths in the later section of the song, but where were they in the first section? These instruments sadly drowned a bit.

Instrument balance has always been your main topic. Maybe this is your bigger challenge for 2024.



@Doc Jon:
This is more "late 1980s prog rock" than metal. But hey, it has distorted guitars, so I'll let it count (also, it's catchy)

The biggest things that stand out to me, are the balance between drums and guitars. Especially the "metal rhyhtm". Those guitars could be a bit louder (and in places harsher). Another thing that stands out, is "Superior Drummer"... it kinda drowns overall, feels too compressed (probably due to the squashed room mics being too loud). Maybe reduce that a bit, bring up the snare and the kit in general -- this changes the feel of the song, makes it more "driven"/punchy. Kind of hard to say what rhythm guitars are what, but the ones at 2:38 were definitely a bit too loud. I really like what you did with RealStrat (Solo). Did you use the "built-in" amps for all these guitars?

Overall, as mentioned, more "classic prog rock" than "metal". But I imagine you had a lot of fun with this. And hey, you could take Cubase 13 for a test drive.



@Chrisantimos:
Many great ideas here, with an overall great concept (and a lot of tools used to get there). Although this feels more like "fusion", than metal (I miss the "chugging" rhythms / more guitars -- where are the guitars?!). As with a lot of the other entries, the instrument balance is not ideal (biggest point to address - the pads are super loud for example), and the used guitar amps also don't necessarily "add" here.

I am pretty sure that Guitar Rig has more than just the usual "fizzy Marshall" with a SM57 microhone in front of a V30 4x12 Guitar Cabinet. A different tone might work wonders here. And as mentioned further up, a slight compression of the signal to bring out the sustain, then run a "treble booster" (e.g. Bell EQ at 3,3kHz with +3-4dB) in front of the amp. This definitely goes a long way. Also, "pull back" those high frequencies a bit. Creating guitar tones isn't easy - it can make or break a production.

The drums could also see some love. It's not the way they are played - these are actually nice grooves. But the kit could be a bit louder, and have a dose of more high frequencies (like a parallel EQ with a high shelf at 6,8kHz with a boost of 2-3dB). It sounds squashed and lofi currently. Since this song feels more "fusion", you want that groove a bit more in-your-face.



@Lady Incognita:
I am instantly reminded of Danzig meets Power Metal meets "Pop with Oriental influences". This is an interesting blend and concept, taking a swing, and announcing "here I am, take a listen". Such a pity that it's not fully available for everyone. It's still set to private on SoundCloud. Maybe a WAV file download would have sounded different, this is hard to tell. Maybe Ozone messed things up a bit too much, and then SoundCloud's encoding had a hiccup. Or, you uploaded an MP3, and Soundcloud turned that MP3 into another MP3 - which explains some tone wobbling ever so often.

For your (apparently) first attempt in this genre, not to mention at this unholy "low" loudness (hehe), you did great. I like the overall tone. Although Shreddage feels "chopped" if we talk rhythm, while the lead melodies are working nicely. SSD5 feels too over-processed (which is the case for most "ready-to-go" drum VSTi presets, see EZ Drummer). Maybe here as well, try to pull back the "squashed room sound" a bit (to ease up on the overall compression), raise the snare by like 1dB for more perceived "smack", and that should give you a way different feeling already.

Overall, a bit too much reverb for the whole song. I understand the concept to let this sound more "ethereal". But I would at least dial that back for the guitars, drums, and your vocals. Not fully dry, but definitely more subdued. The reverb helps you place your instruments. Less reverb means "more dry" means "more in front", while more reverb means "instruments are further in the back". Great for your strings for example.

In fact, the reverb has a mid range heavy tone, changing your vocal tone a bit too much as well. I'd try the following: definitely less reverb here, maybe a different reverb for the vocals altogether (more warm), or at least address the mid-range (around 1kHz to 2kHz) with a bell EQ dip. Ducking the reverb also results in more clean and up-front vocals. Alternatively, maybe try a more subtle delay instead.

I really hope you revisit this -- now you also know the time-frame of the game for future entries. Also, a more proper ending might be of interest. Although your fade-out wasn't as harsh.



@becsei_gyorgy:
Bringing back Synthesizer V for the vocals with this one. Great ideas, as with all your entries, but as with pretty much every entry this month: room for more.

For example: Addictive Drums, while being great, the snare is sadly not working here (IMHO). It's a bit too high pitched and with the VSTi processing, also a bit too aggressive (it feels like a "whip" sound). I'd maybe tune it down just a bit, and raise the snare bottom signal strength so that it's more felt than heard. This should already change the overall tone for the whole kit.

I don't know if the chord guitars use the built-in amp sound (UJAM Iron I assume), or you ran that through a dedicated amp. If it was a dedicated one, a different amp tone would definitely work more wonders here. Something that has a bit more "low end", and more drive -- else this feels too thin and too choppy. Maybe you wanted to shoot for a Gothic artwork inspired Japanese Platformer Video Game Soundtrack from the 1990s with this one. Who knows. I think you've used Shreddage for the Lead, and recorded it live. Some tones sadly cut off (maybe a legato issue). But overall, a way more fitting tone.

Now Synthesizer V seems to be a beloved tool with the Songwriting Competition as of late, and I get the appeal. However, in this case, the vocals feel a bit "offset" (lagging behind). Maybe on purpose even. And I am not a fan of the machine-gun voice at the 2:05 min to 2:19 min mark. Maybe just a "time... tik, tok" or something would have worked better here rather than chopped repetition.

But hey, you stepped into new territory - great job!




Final Thoughts and Vote:

I might have to re-think some parameters for future Songwriting Competitions. It feels like, I'm setting the bar way too high as of late (even with providing plenty of audoi demos!), which in turn results in low participation. Expectations are a highly subjective thing. Although admittedly, "Heavy Metal" is not an easy task if you've never worked with guitar amps before.

I really don't want to influence the overall score sheet. But considering that most of the points went to a participant that sadly ultimately abandoned the game, and I think certain entries fit the premise more than what the results show, I am also adding a vote. This is never an easy task, as you all know (plot twist - it doesn't drastically change the podium - but strengthens certain positions). Overall, you all won in my book. You've created something in the first place. You tried something new, even if it was way out of your comfort zone. Be proud of this achievement, no matter the position on the score sheet.

Please keep up the good work, and please keep spreading the word. The game is just more fun if there are more people involved.