Mix Challenge

I never did vocals before because it is not my thing at all and I'm not good at performing a song or a speech, but this month I found that recording vocals is even more tedious than I thought. It's hard to find a time where it's quiet at home and if you're not native English speaker it's hard to control your pronunciation sometimes. All of this, plus the regular troubles of finding better recording equipment and actually training your voice makes me want to forget about singing even more than before.

But that was a fun experiment anyway...

My feedback:
Voting:

This month was the first time I really put much time into getting double tracked (or more) vocals. I have a hard time harmonizing with myself. I tend to just sing it the same way multiple times and it doesn’t get a good chorus sound out of it. I didn’t quite get there this go around but it still turned out ok IMO.

Feedback Vote

VCA-089 wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 01, 2023 17:41 CEST

This demo feels to me like a pre-production of a modern "radio ready" pop song.
It has a lot of hip-hop influences in terms of arrangement.
The vocals are good to me. Processed but not to death, very modern sounding.
I liked the story in the song. It could possibly fit into a mental topic.
It feels a bit too short. The bridge section or the third verse would be nice.
The overall production quality is very good.

@VCA-089 I appreciate the feedback and kind words! I was listening to blackbear a lot when I got onto this site, so I just went with the sticky trap pop. I thoroughly enjoyed your track too! I love the clean/chorus tone and driving bass. "Under the Rotting Pizza" from Final Fantasy VII is where I live every time I hear the drums. Delicious taste in the notes chosen for the solo. I find it's tough to do a solo that takes a backseat, and you executed it so well.

EDIT,, I rolled on the pronunciation part. As an English speaker, it is still pronounce to the standard. I'm from the south, so there's a little twang to some of the vowels. Lends itself to country music rather well, though. haha

It's the 02nd October 2023, 05:30 (UTC+2/CEST) - the Voting Period has officially ended.

Everyone has sent in feedback and cast a vote, we therefore have no disqualification. However, one vote has been posted after the deadline has been reached, and even though I only post now, this will still be subjected to a bonus point withdrawal, I'm afraid.


Please no more changes to your feedback from this point forward.
I will post the results within 2-3 days. (this is not an automated process)


Please have an eye on this thread

Thank you all for your comments

Just a quick update on the Results:

I have announced in post #019, that I will not be giving feedback / cast a vote for SWC073. However, the given votes resulted in an "unbreakable tie" situation. This results in a "fallback mechanic" where I (as host) are stepping to give feedback and cast a vote.

I am still in the process of writing commentary. Apologies for the delay.
Please have an eye on this thread.

Months like these aren't easy to compare songs and genres with each other. They never are. However, the task was to "just make music". And despite this strong topic, you all did an amazing job - creating something in the first place.

Please be proud of that achievement, and please keep it up.

I now have the difficult task to "break up a tie", even if it's "only" for participants that rank quite low on the chart. We do have this game mechanic for a reason however. And I think this final bit of feedback is just as appreciated.



Feedback:


@a Future in Noise (Bonus Entry):
First and foremost, thank you for posting your entry regardless. A very interesting approach at Classic Pop Rock. Although I would take a different procedure in terms of mixing. I would pull back the bass just a tad (say -1,5 dB to -2,0 dB), and in turn raise the vocals by same amount to reduce the quite loud bass. This changes the flair of the song and gives more focus on the story you're trying to tell.

Another thing that is standing out, is that the instruments all feel like being in different spaces. Drums, guitar, bass, your voice. Maybe create a setup in the future, where you only have two rooms (environments): a "big" one for pushing things further back, and a "shorter (but "warm"/soft one) for content that is more in front. This should help you have everything "on the same stage".



@Arelem:
This is a very nice modern hip hop/pop song. Quite the strong message that is backed up by the pumping beats and the distorted vocals. And this is also where I'd change things around a bit. The kick is a bit too overpowering - I'd reduce it in volume. On small speakers, it's also feels like you're constantly "slamming" a basketball on the pavement. Your lead vocals on the other hand drown a bit in the soundscape (headphones! They cut more through the mix on small/laptop/mobile speakers) - I'd pull them up a bit more. The chorus is okay balance wise.

Another thing standing out, is that this song has loud and clearly noticeable artifact clicks. As if you were recording this mix in real time, but your CPU is overloaded and can't handle the processing power. Maybe have an eye on that in the future.

Such a pity that you submitted your feedback so late and therefore lost out on bonus points... your entry this month is really good



@EsteveCorbera:
The longest entry this month, and it's quite ambient heavy. I like the concept that you can just sit down, put on headphones, lean back, and go for this auditory journey. Compared to your last couple of entries, this mix is way more balanced. Instruments do not stick out as much (some exceptions on small speakers, but this is what sawtooth based synths do). The leading kick drum is a matter of personal taste - it still fits the overall message.

Although the only criticism I have, is that this song is a bit too long. I understand the story behind it, the back and forth, the creeping ups and downs you try to convey, including little sounds and melody layers you have in the middle section (before you change the beat to 4/4 with more syncopated snares). But I would maybe reduce 8 bars from the first section, just to let the song feel less repetitive.

Overall - very nice experience. I felt really drawn into your story. Great improvement on mixing. Could still see some slight adjustments with reverb (main beat section is maybe a bit too much). Keep it up for future games - and do cross-check with other speakers/playback devices (to find a better balance)! Using Hornet Plugins VHS is a great starting point.

Such a pity that nobody gave you any points this month...



@BenjiRage:
First and foremost, welcome to the Songwriting Competition. Now officially with your first entry after trying to also get involved with SWC069 (but couldn't due to time constraints). Second of all... those vocals are "artificial"?! I am absolutely blown away by this. We sure went a long way since Vocaloid. I initially thought this is a "high tier guest artist", which it technically is, but I digress. Also, Aly James instruments providing the core vibe of the late 1980s retro-wave vibes. And Kurzweil K2000 piano? Now that is a company / instrument name I haven't heard in a while (/me looks over to my own device).

I can't say anything negative about the production really. You do know what you're doing. Although regarding the "I'm used to master loud" topic... you could still try to work at a certain reference level (like -18dBFS / 0 VU), and to get that "glue" regardless, just utilize a compressor or even compressor array (the infamous "summing bug glue" trick). A "glue" with -2dB GR to -3dB GR goes a long way. Anything at your disposal would work, even ProTools' bundled stock compressor.

Let those transients shine.

Now I'm curious as to how this would sound with a male voice (I mean, I know you can sing from being a Song Provider this month)
(and as bonus sidenote... fellow Mix Challenge community member @becsei_gyorgy did a couple of videos on/with Synthesizer V Pro!)



@KukoBass:
I like the concept of the song, the melancholy that you convey with the pianos and synth. This is a very interesting back and forth. Unfortunately, the synth is a bit too harsh and distracting. It feels like an entity that wants to move around in the stereo field - trying to find a certain spot to be comfortable with. Yet it also feels like lashing out too much (which is only emphasized on small speakers). I'd actually pull that synth back in volume a bit. Bar minimum "limit" the harsh frequencies more (dynamic EQ comes to mind).

I don't know where you mentioned this, but I seem to remember that "vocals" might not be your strong suit. In this case, they were also a bit rushed (due to time constraints). That sadly clearly shows. Even though they fit the song and overall theme, they also feel a bit out of place, thin and "too on top". If I were to try to blend them into the mix, I'd get rid of certain mouth noises first, then address the low-mid bass frequencies (670Hz range, and again around 1,5kHz) to reduce the overall boxy sound. I would also try a different reverb to "blend" into the song. Or, I might go more towards a "radio effect", to have an out of body experience. Then again, I don't think this might suit this song... you tell us something from your perspective, not an outside one.

All in all - you definitely should trust your workflow more. You've been creating outstanding entries so far. And if there are no vocals, then so be it!



@jinjer93:
First and foremost, a "welcome to the Songwriting Competition" to you as well. Great to read that this month's game gave you the incentive to just "make more music", material that you want to do, and tell a story in the process. Although, I would have loved to read written down lyrics, since some of your enunciation gets a bit lost in the production. This might be something for the future to improve upon (vocal recordings).

Can't really complain much mix wise. On headphones it sounds coherent (same on small speakers, where the vocals actually "pop out", but the kick gets a bit lost). Albeit the mix is a bit too "compact". As in - barely dynamic movement. Did you maybe also master loud, and then pull down the loudness after the fact? This could explain things. (see the entry by BenjiRage)

One thing to point out: please properly name your files in the future (check the filename template, e.g. post #001).



@VCA-089:
I am definitely heavily reminded of "Indie"/Industrial/Punk productions from the mid/late 1980s, distributed as white labels releases on tape, with sometimes really bad quality and all. It was just "the thing" at that time... press record, play, distribute. I have my own share of experience in that realm as well (this is how you learn proper gain staging, and work with "reference levels").

Your song does have a certain "broken" feeling, with the underlying question of "what is happening?!" (which is even more emphasized on small speakers). Experimental, yet not at all. Very well executed this month (one can argue about the synthetic sounding guitar chords, but you're still pushing the limits of RealLPC). Although I am a bit confused why you had to write "first 'real' song" in your documentation... you have been part of the SWC for months, and all of your entries have been real to me. Please don't play yourself down.

I can't say much about the mixing. Or want to, rather. It is a general concept, a certain sound and feel that you tried to re-create. And in my opinion, you did that quite well.



@Doc Jon:
I am conflicted with this production. On the one hand, it has a great concept with "fear for AI" and reflecting on that possible outcome with having "digital overlords".

On the other hand, you technically went against established rules regarding "vocal sample usage" (see: this often referenced thread on restrictions of vocal samples / construction kits, even in post #001). In this case, the song is built upon the used acapella snippets (they are the "lead", and are barely edited), not your own vocals (they merely work as support and additional here). I am letting it slide this month (as in: no disqualification). The main idea of the Songwriting Competition in September is really "just make music". And please don't take the following in a negative manner - but in fairness to all other participants, I need to balance things out... so I am withdrawing -5pts from the score sheet. (you are still in the top 3 though)

Production wise, I really like the "glitching out" of both instruments and vocals. The beat falls a bit flat mix wise though (both on studio headphones, and small speakers). But the overall sound is "synth pop" - not a big complaint. It's just slight adjustments I'd do to let things transition a bit better to more playback mediums.




Final Thoughts and Vote:

I would have loved to give everyone points as each entry brought something special. However, my task was to "break up an unbreakable tie". This is why my focus is on "low ranking entries".

Please keep up the good work, and please keep spreading the work. The game is just more fun if there are more people involved.

Ladies and Gentlemen, here are the results of Songwriting Competition 073

The winners podium consists of:

1. @BenjiRage (21 pts)
2. @Doc Jon (19 pts)
3. @jinjer93 (19 pts)

Apologies for the waiting time, this is not an automated process.

<4 participant rule is not in use (staff comments and votes, my vote would count as bonus)
We have 0 disqualifications (due to lack of feedback / a final vote)
We have 0 withdrawn entries (but counts as submission within the deadline, yet couldn't be voted for)
We have several users still in the game that tied

• one particular unbreakable tie has been broken up by the staff stepping in (VCA-089 and KukoBass both had 4pts with the participation vote, and 12pts bonus - originally resulting in 16pts)
• The following ties on the chart happened due to the offsets with the bonus point mechanic
  • Doc Jon acquired 12pts with the participation vote -- the tie results due to loosing out 5pts due to a penalty for a rule violation (resulting in 19pts, else 24pts)
  • jinjer93 acquired 8pts with the participation vote -- the tie results due to loosing out on 1pt bonus (resulting in 19pts, else 20pts)
• no (more) users that tied

"Sole (License) Winner" rule does apply - 1-position Winners Podium (<= 8 participants prior to the deadline)


STATISTICS SHEET:
Overview of Submissions (PDF - updated: 02-SEP-2023, full sheet)

!

Bonus Info

Short info: I am using Wavelab 10 for batch analysis, then I manually port the CSV export to a Microsoft Excel/Open Office Calc sheet with custom layout (this is not an automated process). As pointed out in this post from SWC047 / July 2021, Wavelab has different tolerances for dBTP max analysis compared to tools like iZotope RX, Youlean Loudness Meter, NUGEN Audio VisLM, etc. To find a common ground, I've implemented "allowed tolerances" (just like with the Mix Challenge). These are based upon allowed offsets mentioned in the white papers for EBU R128 and ITU-R BS.1770-4. Since no measurement tool is the same, to be on the save side, please export at -14,1 LUFS ILk max, and -1,1 dBTP max. As usual, I did list/analyze alternative releases (MP3s and FLAC). If you've submitted your entry in multiple file formats, the statistic sheet will focus on the uncompressed material first (WAV), then FLAC, then MP3. The higher the quality, the less possible loss on bonus points for "Loudness Specs" due to offsets introduced by a used CODEC. In this case, FLAC and MP3 are merely for information purposes.

Here are the results as chart in image form:



Thank you so much for your participation.

⚠	Moderation Message from Mister Fox
	INFORMATION: As of January 2023, I am adapting the same voting mechanic as most other International Songwriting Competitions utilize. Nearly all of these games use(d) a 01 to 05 points system (top 5 entries) in some shape or form. The main difference to our game: these ones don't offer bonus points or penalty points, neither are they tiered (depending on the participant amount). I hope to get that properly sorted out in form of an extensive Rule Book update in the foreseeable future (serious apologies for the waiting time). Breaking up a tie: My focus was on breaking the ties and making the lower results more interesting. It also saddened me that EsteveCorbera didn't get any point at all. An explanation on the bonus points and penalty points: I've withdrawn 1pt for not using the filename template (see post #001). Only one user is affected this month (@jinjer93). I've withdrawn 5pts due to posting a vote/the feedback late (@Arelem posted over 2 hours after the deadline). I've withdrawn 5pts from @Doc Jon for violating established rules (in fairness to all other participants - see the restriction on vocal sample usage announcement from December 2022). You have all done an amazing job, please continue to spread the word. It would be amazing to see more than 10 participants in October again, and more than 15 on avg for the rest of the year. See you folks in the next game.

License selection:

We will now perform with the usual. Selecting of licenses is handled in public. Please select one license/company out of the pool (in order of the winners podium) and mention it in this thread, then (important) please get in touch with me (via PM) with your full name, email address and your license selection.

As usual - you're not forced to pick up anything. You can pass and therefore offer more to select for the next person in line (if there is a spot existing / not available for "sole winner" mechanic). Just let all participants/winners/the staff know in a timely manner (within 5 days). Once one company has been selected, it's out of the pool for the next person on the podium.



I re-open the field for talking some more about each others' productions. If things drift a bit too off-topic, please use the General Gossip thread, or Discord.



See you in in the next challenge!


Songwriting Competition 074 (October 2023) is still in full swing.
There is currently no entry.

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 06, 2023 09:41 CEST

you technically went against established rules regarding "vocal sample usage" (see: this often referenced thread on restrictions of vocal samples / construction kits, even in post #001)

Aaargh, I missed that!! Oh dear!! I will know for next time
The 5 point penalty is a small price to pay to avoid the humiliation of disqualification!!!!

Many congratulations to @BenjiRage a very worthy winner and my fave track this month

Thanks to everyone else for their helpful feedback and many thanks as always to @Mister Fox for all your time and effort running the competition

See you in the next one

Wow what an unexpected twist, I thought the good Doc had it in the bag!

So stoked to have won I can't tell you Thank you all so much for your invaluable feedback, I'm taking all your points on board to grow and improve for the next one.

And @Mister Fox thank you as always for your incredible efforts in running the competition, and for your extra feedback too.

I would love to choose Tone2's Saurus4 for the plugin if I could please.

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 06, 2023 09:41 CEST

Now I'm curious as to how this would sound with a male voice (I mean, I know you can sing from being a Song Provider this month)

I did actually try singing the verses myself at first but sadly I don't think I have a pleasing enough vocal timbre to sing lead. I've been trying to rope in a friend with a great voice to sing, but he's shy and needs more coaxing

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 06, 2023 09:41 CEST

Second of all... those vocals are "artificial"?! I am absolutely blown away by this. We sure went a long way since Vocaloid. I initially thought this is a "high tier guest artist", which it technically is, but I digress.

I've been blown away by the power of SynthV too, everyone I show it to can't believe it's not a human singing!

If anybody's interested, I've put the SVP files up on my website if you want to have a deeper dive into how I did the vocals: https://www.masterlinknorth.co.uk/media ... x_SVPs.zip