Mix Challenge

Leonard Bowman wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 27, 2019 21:42 CET

Personally I'm curious as to the thought process behind the start of the main track and the ending, why you opened and closed with the percussion that you did.

if you mean vibraslap by percussion, i tell you that i just like how it sounds in a song, not something significant,that is all about it.

MarkS wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 27, 2019 21:46 CET

i can not call that unimportant, you have a point in what you speak.

Thanks!

MarkS wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 27, 2019 22:12 CET

if you mean vibraslap by percussion, i tell you that i just like how it sounds in a song, not something significant,that is all about it.

It's not as much the specific instruments as why you started and closed with really exposed and sparse percussion. It didn't seem the most effective choice to me, but it very well may have a bigger reason.

SW Challenge Vote:

This is daaaamn hard and a very good lesson to learn more deep listening, thanks to be part of it !

I listen to all tracks and gave just points that I thought they fit to the topic, later I compared the ones again that have the same points and again and again …

Every production is amazing and I can hear a lot of effort and creativity in every track and how everyone express his idea to the topic

Actually I’m a bit ashamed of my final song quality but I have 3 Album productions running + Singles and finished this song only in the last minute with bleeding ears

Your tracks are really inspiring and impressive, so I think these points don’t reflect the song as “good” or “bad” because all of them are good - it is only my impression and I check if the song surprises me and have a difference to the others, so here we go folks !

1.
ANTHEMIC - NDE

Really great, uplifting track that brings me into the berlin electro mood, I hear curiosity and confusion in the way “Where do we go now”
Production quality is A+ and the track will be definitely in my playlist for now, but it reminds me of Clubbing and a good time (connection) than a Blackout, actually this approach is what I like - amazing job man, I will check definitely other tracks from you !


2.
The Ted Mountaine Orchestra - Who Knew

I like the “Outer space” feel and the occasional noises in the Back, the melody is really cool after the break - this stays in the head and brings the song forward and guides me through the song - you really know how to bring movement in this tracks and the End Stomp is fantastic, great job, great production !

3.
TrojakEW - Restart

Restart - oh man the vocals and the song are very surprising ! What a uplifting and deep use of the virtual instruments man !
And the name fit’s 100% to the track, bravo ! I like the violins melody, there are so many changes that fit just awesome together, and then the open end, excellent, very characteristic and a cool idea to bring this organic, natural feel for the topic blackout

4.
Doctor Bob - Phone Freakin’

Very heroic man ! Lot’s of stuff going’ on in this track and I like this arpeggio going from left to right and this voices in the middle directly in your face !!! Later the changes to flutes is fantastic and express for me some kind of curiosity and a “new start” after a blackout, like “hope” - I like also the name “Phone Freakin’” - great job man !

5.
J E L L I A M - A Sad Quiet Age / Only Wind is Howling

Cool reverb on the Piano and use of the powerful drums in the middle man ! The intro is a bummer and the melody guides me really nice and surprisingly through the song and I like the sound honestly, it’s different and dirty, scratchy and a bit darker, great track man and a good realization for the topic “Blackout” !

6.
The Exponent - Desolation

Oh man you wrote this song in 3 weeks ? really cool, this part in the middle (this voice over the phone) is really scary and perfect for this mood ! I like the change at the end when you get more quiet and BAM all instruments are back, very powerful song that catches my full attention - and the end is a nice surprise, I like this “shaky strings” at the end, not full in pitch leaving me a mysterious feeling man ! Great Job !

7.
Clueless - DarkDays

What a great synth sound at the beginning, great how it builds up leaving me “Blacked out”, especially the synth track guiding me to the middle of the track - are this two songs in one ? I bet you can make the change from the first melody pattern to the second one better ! the end is killer with the beep noises, thank you for this track it’s really “Dark Days”

8.
UprightJoe - A Call unanswered

Yeah, very Heroic, like from a action movie and cool changes I like that one, and - Is this a Slide Guitar ?!? There you go ! The melody is very nice from the piano at the beginning - the idea is nice to end with it as well and push the delay, the production is good, somehow I don’t come 100% into the “Blackout”, rather a action movie end track, good job man !

9.
Todajho - Apocalypse Makes Perfect”

WOW ! Killer Intro ! Very dramatic song that keeps the tension and builds up perfectly, you put a lot of thought into the topic “blackout” and then the electric guitars at the end for the and BAM - tension released and back to nature and the piano riff, amazing man !!!

10.
Dr. Dendrite - Symphonic Protestant

Very interesting intro, I like it very much, btw the name is really cool and the I like the artwork Cool change after 2:50 min where it get’s more intense, really hypnotizing track and very chill out somehow - I think that’s an interesting, very artistic approach to the topic, good Job man ! But there are not that much surprises happening compared to the other tracks

11.
Erictracks - Maybe It’s a good thing

At first, the track name was my first reaction after I read about the topic blackout haha
Yeah nice percussive idea and the strumming guitars in the back going from left to right with this dreamy reverb
Also I like how it builds up, the next element after 1:04 min is cool and the surprising change , gives me somehow even a touch of 70’s special agent movies, somehow funky man ! I like that there is a lot of movement in the track, going up and always some new elements coming’ in, like in min. 3, bravo great song man !

12.
MarkS - Strange Things
The intro is great - “you have been disconnected” ! I hear a very playful track man, very artistic approach with a lot of stuff happening, the pad’s are great that just play and stop - somehow it doesn’t kept my attention that much after 3 min. because this song don’t guides me to the end but after reading your description to the song it makes sense

Once again - Amazing Job everyone !See you for the next challenge !

Some general info
As I write earlier my new headphones are really quality demanding one. My complains about mix, tonal balance and all that stuff are actually because of them. It doesn't mean I can do this better. Actually my track sound very harsh and bad especially in most crowded part starting at 1:20. Those problems regarding mix and frequencies I speak about are just suggestion based on my test with all tracks where I actually applied suggested setting with EQ. It not based just on observation, ears and numbers. But still these are just suggestion and everything is up to you and it doesn't mean that my observation are correct. Same as in previous round I included some track statistic for you and I hope I didn't do mistake while writing those numbers.

It is interesting to see how people react to same theme and how all of you tell as about it through the music.

---------------------------
ANTHEMIC - NDE
Track have interesting introduction followed with nice transition to main part. The main part have interesting catchy melody but it really feels too repetitive with only small changes overall in this part. There is another short transition but it leads again to the same repetitive theme. I'm not saying it is bad, but it make feel too neutral without any end. It is like news section in TV that there is simple theme repeating over and over. Same theme for every news that happen no matter if something bad or good happen.

Now regarding mix and issues there. Pad in intro have removed too much upper harmonics and this makes it muddy almost resonating. It start aty about 140HZ and never go past 2kHZ. Weird thing is that you try to cut everything bellow 140HZ but without success. You forgot about 30HZ and bellow. I know you want ot make space for what comes next but this naked pad sounds really muddy. After other instruments join this pad it is little better but again even everything you have here have removed too much higher harmonics and freq past 4kHZ is almost empty. It really sounds harsh. Low strings and that sub hits only add another lover frequencies to this and make it even worse. Main part regarding frequency balance is a lot of better but it looks like you don't like mid spectrum. Freq from 1kHZ to 3kHZ need big boost. Even in this part are too much sub freq 40HZ and bellow. Stage have some depth but on other side everything sounds too centered.

Max momentary loudness -8,3 LUFS
Max short term loudness -9,4 LUFS
Integrated loudness -14,3 LUFS
Loudness range 9,2 LU
True peak L +0,71db / 76 clipped samples
True peak R +1.51db / 563 clipped samples
DC offset L +0.144%
DC offset R +0.145%
---------------------------
mountaine - Who Knew...?
I really like the feel in this track but actually track is too short. I mean music part that start at 1:27. Strings in introduction are very nice but they are drowned behind that bass with kind of lofi effect on it and other effects. The first 30 sec from track is unnecessary (for me). That music part is simple but nice. It make you feel the emptiness or rather said discomfort and fear form this situation. Track feels like it was made in hurry, because I know you can create wonderful music but this one is not one of them. I expected more from a guy of your caliber. It is your fault showing your great skill in OSC.

Now regarding mix. That siren in beginning create unbalance in that short 30s effect introduction. Removed too much harmonics from it makes it little harsh and that noise in background doesn't have amplitude to balance the spectrum. Another section with the strings lacks air. Again your removed too much of upper frequencies and only some harmonics tones between 3kHZ and 4kHZ. Everything above 4kHZ is almost empty. It sound like I'm have earplugs. Next part doesn't change the situation. Only little more air added from other instruments but still 2kHZ and above is really empty. Everything sounds like coming from same distance. Some stage is there but it lacks some depth.

Max momentary loudness -10,1 LUFS
Max short term loudness -11,9 LUFS
Integrated loudness -18,6 LUFS
Loudness range 16,1 LU
True peak L -1.76db
True peak R -0.18db
DC offset L -0.286%
DC offset R -0.343%
---------------------------
DoctorBob - Phone Freakin
Introduction is great but it should be shorter. There is a lot of things happening here. From 1:03 after intro to 3:32 it is very very nice. I can't even say which part I liked the most, maybe every part. But after that it becomes little cluttered/ There are some nice parts here too but there are parts when it is hard to follow and decide what is real theme for this part. So with some "tweaking" in those section it can be really great track. I even love that happy feel because for me blackout is good thing.

Stage is nice with good placement of instruments and depth but what some unbalance in frequency spectrum almost broke that stage. Low doesn't have enough power when needed - some "umpf". Low mid section is freq spectrum is loud making mid section sound harsh that also doesn't help to feel the stage. It kind of like every instruments is playing in mid section within same octave. No massive sounding lows when needed and no sparkly air when needed too. You crated nice stage and then "ruined it" with gluing everything together because each instruments fights for same frequency range.

Max momentary loudness -11,1 LUFS
Max short term loudness -12,3 LUFS
Integrated loudness -15,3 LUFS
Loudness range 12,0 LU
True peak L -3.22db
True peak R -3.05db
DC offset L +0.016%
DC offset R +0.011%
---------------------------
J I L L I A M - A sad quiet Age / Only Wind is Howling
Really nice track with almost like destructive feel. Like the blackout means end of the world. Yep for some of people it can be truth especially for those who are observing and controlling our world. Some more dynamics to play for example for piano could bring more expression. But you cant add more expression to your track because there is no place for this. Track as I said is nice but it is ruined with bad mix.

Regarding tonal balance it is funny because based on what I can see on spectrum analyzer it looks balanced but truth is that is not. Most of numerical balance and air is because of distortion that you have here in whole track. No matter what number show it sounds very harsh and very distorted. You went for max loudness too far as you can see your integrated loudness is -8,5 LUFS while you have some reserve regarding peaks in track. Because of that you squashed and removed almost all dynamics in track. It is even impossible to do proper analysis and point to problematic area because it is simply too flat.

Max momentary loudness -5,9 LUFS
Max short term loudness -6,8 LUFS
Integrated loudness -8,5 LUFS
Loudness range 2,8 LU
True peak L -2,43db
True peak R -2,06db
DC offset L -0.018%
DC offset R -0.011%
---------------------------
The Exponent - Desolation
As I said before I like the simple easy to remember. Nice melodic introduction and not just effects. You show you don't need to use orchestral stuff to create track with epic feel. It have the most Epic feel of of tracks posted here. I can only say - cool.

Now to my favorite part. Mix seems to be balanced most of time with some minor jumps here and there. Most problematic part is the one with this detuned "piano". You removed too much upper harmonics and most frequencies for it are between 600 - 1000HZ make it little muddy and harsh. Yup on my new LZR 980 it is really obvious. Look like that sound is played later too when normal piano is introduced leaving those peaks in frequency I mention. So mix regarding frequency seems ok but problem here is stage. No depth here and maybe there is little too much reverb. Not sure why but it looks like these days trend is use as much reverb as you can on everything to create stage. I can't hear that much reverb in any awesome production from some well known music even if I play more synthesized stuff for example from Jarre or Vangelis not to mention some jazz or orchestral stuff. They sound more dry with just little reverb when needed to create depth.

Max momentary loudness -10,5 LUFS
Max short term loudness -10,9 LUFS
Integrated loudness -14,0 LUFS
Loudness range 8,7 LU
True peak L -0,94dB
True peak R -0,95dB
DC offset L 0%
DC offset R 0%
---------------------------
Clueless - Dark Days
Actually this is cool minimalistic approach. Not much melodic stuff here but maybe this is what it make it interesting and it really fits the mood. This is well, great and you show that sometime less is more regarding atmosphere.

But there is always but .. Not sure if it is intentional but it sound too much distorted. What I mean that it is clear that this distortion is unnatural and it is everywhere. It feels more like tape emulation but I newer understand why should I do this to the sound. Add noise and distortion to it. Why you have degraded sound quality? Some kind of nostalgia? It sound harsh. Regarding tonal balance it looks like you removed most of sub frequencies 80HZ and bellow and with peak at around 110HZ. It sound little like it is coming from radio. In some part there is also unbalance from 2kHZ to 4kHZ and you removed too much above 4kHZ so track is missing some air. Another problem is that there is no stage. Everything is almost mono and absolutely no depth. Every instrument is sitting on top of each other in center.

Max momentary loudness -12,2 LUFS
Max short term loudness -13,1 LUFS
Integrated loudness -17,4 LUFS
Loudness range 9,2 LU
True peak L -6,70dB
True peak R -6.63dB
DC offset L -0.004%
DC offset R -0.002%
---------------------------
UprightJoe - A Call Unanswered
Interesting but it feels more like action or chase scene. Snares here have too much militaristic feel compared to the rest of instruments. For brass section at 2:14 (and for some other parts too) you should change articulation to staccato or at least marcato instead sustain to bring more bite. That sustain have too long attack phase for this part. That string phrase feels dominant making it kind of too repetitive. Interesting parts are those with that guitar.

You should clean that drums more because they bring too much sub frequencies to to mix. You should lover some freq 100HZ and bellow and make drums cut through the mix a little more. Frequencies 6kHZ and above need boost. You have to reduce also some frequencies from 400HZ to 1kHZ. Stage is there also some depth but because missing air it is not evident.

Max momentary loudness -9,0 LUFS
Max short term loudness -10,8 LUFS
Integrated loudness -14,0 LUFS
Loudness range 14,4 LU
True peak L -0,31dB
True peak R -0,31db
DC offset L +0.003%
DC offset R +0.004%
---------------------------
toadhjo - Apocalypse Makes Perfect
The track feels like underscore to movie trailer. There are some interesting parts with best one starting at 1:36 but it feels and sounds more like some extinction level event movie. Kind of meteor going to fall and wipe all life on earth. It fits title perfectly but I'm not sure what apocalypse you mean. But it is for sure nice piece.

Piano in intro stick too much and cause litle tonal unbalance. Especially that hammer striking the striking string is little harsh but nothing serious. The rest of track feels more harsh. Frequencies starting from about 6kHZ up to about 15kHZ need boost to bring some sparkle and to remove that harsh from sound. Frequencies starting at 100HZ up to about 3kHZ need gentle reduction. Stage is there but it skulk in the harsh mix.

Max momentary loudness -7,9 LUFS
Max short term loudness -10,1 LUFS
Integrated loudness -14,1 LUFS
Loudness range 16,7 LU
True peak L -2,40 dB
True peak R -1,74 dB
DC offset L -0.001%
DC offset R -0.006%
---------------------------
Dr Dendrite - Symphonic Protestant
Very interesting and very atmospheric track. Simple and beautiful but I absolutely not sure about where I have to look for blackout. It feels too bombastic and very spacey. Kind of space exploration. Even introduction support stargazing theme. I wish that this short end part with bells will be longer since I like it much.

Mix feels and sounds balanced but also too cluttered. It could be because all instruments are everywhere. Like for example instead placing brass section on right you place them everywhere on stage. On top of them you place other instrument but also everywhere. This makes instruments fight each other and ruin stage. It feels more like reverb with wide setting for whole track.

Max momentary loudness -10,8 LUFS
Max short term loudness -11,3 LUFS
Integrated loudness -14,6 LUFS
Loudness range 10,8 LU
True peak L -2,67 dB
True peak R -1,96 dB
DC offset L +0.025%
DC offset R +0.029%
---------------------------
erictracks - maybe it’s a good thing
Finally somebody that share my opinion about blackout. Interesting introduction that transcend from kind ominous atmosphere to peace. Nice composition. I like it very much.

Great stage. Tonally balanced with some small problems. What I don't like that that sustain string (violas) section is too upfront. Most problematic part regarding tonal balanced and overall "harshness" start in last part from 3:00. Some instruments fight for lead in same frequency spectrum, producing small harshness in mix. Frequency between 200 - 800HZ need to be reduced (gentle ) and small boost to freq 8kHZ and above to give little more air.

Max momentary loudness -12,8 LUFS
Max short term loudness -14,1 LUFS
Integrated loudness -17,2 LUFS
Loudness range 8,5 LU
True peak L -2,27 dB
True peak R -2,24 dB
DC offset L 0%
DC offset R 0%
---------------------------
Los_ady - Lost your head
Interesting combination of simple beat with hammond organ. Transition from intro could have more impact, it is now more like just fade in. As I said it is interesting track and it have feel of human race in confusion. Like they do not know what to do now and they feel lost. The image is quite clear and thought about it makes me smile. What I think it can improve it is more variation to drum pattern to add more confusion through different rhythm and maybe syncopation. You have choose acoustic snare but it sound same in every hit make it sound artificial. I miss different dynamics per velocity to avoid this machine gun effect. Totally different approach compared to the rest of us.

Stage is there but it should be wider. Frequency around 250HZ and below need to be reduced. Frequency around 2kHZ up to 8kHZ need moderate boost but this also mean adjusting levels of instruments since it will make some instruments louder and more upfront like snare. Also some minor boost to frequency above 8kHZ to add some air. Even there is some tonal unbalance track doesn't have any part that sound harsh and it feels balanced. But adjusting those frequencies I mention bring more space and air to mix and this also slightly improve stage.

Max momentary loudness -8,0 LUFS
Max short term loudness -11,3 LUFS
Integrated loudness -17,3 LUFS
Loudness range 11,5 LU
True peak L +0,12 dB / 112 clipped samples
True peak R +0,11 dB / 159 clipped samples
DC offset L +0.035%
DC offset R +0.036%
---------------------------
MarkS wrote - Strange Things
Yup it really have kind of strange atmosphere. Choosed instruments and composition support the idea. Some more dynamics to section can help it more or adding one quieter part to add some expectation or rather said more tension to the track. What I do not like is choice of kick. It sound strange almost like punch hit. For me it just not belong here.

Looks like most of you including you doesn't like high-mid and high frequency range. You need huge boost to frequencies 8kHZ and above to bring air. You cut too much of it making track sound muddy and harsh in some parts. Some minor boost to frequencies from 2kHZ to 8kHZ. Frequencies starting from 300HZ to 2kHZ need to be reduced gently while freq bellow 160HZ and especially around 85HZ need to be reduced even more. Stage here is missing. Most of instruments is in center and you tried to adding space by moving this plucked piano hit from left to center. Stage here is for me biggest problem.

Max momentary loudness -12,3 LUFS
Max short term loudness -14,3 LUFS
Integrated loudness -19,3 LUFS
Loudness range 12,2 LU
True peak L -3,99db
True peak R -3,99db
DC offset L +0.011%
DC offset R +0.012%
---------------------------
Leonard Bowman - Post
This is neat track with interesting elements. Mid ambient part that act like very slow riser is cool. What I miss is more dynamics in brass section in intro but also at the end. For example the track should start with brass playing softer. You played it whole time overblown even on lover velocity. Same for end part that is played with lover amplitude but still sounds overblown making it sounds more artificial. If the library you are using doesn't have enough velocity layers you need to simulate them with filter.

Stage is missing. The whole track sounds like you have reverb on master in order to add some room or rather said space to everything. Even that reverb widen track, it still feels like sound is coming from center of room. In brass section there is almost nothing in 100HZ and bellow making it sound weak. But it is hard to analyze tonal balance here because of that reverb end how it is setup.

Max momentary loudness -12,3 LUFS
Max short term loudness -14,8 LUFS
Integrated loudness -21,6 LUFS
Loudness range 13,3 LU
True peak L -6,64 dB
True peak R -3,33 dB
DC offset L +0.033%
DC offset R +0.021%

TrojakEW - Thank you for this great feedback, I will jump back to the mix and check this frequencies !

Thanks for the technical feedback TrojakEW, very welcome. I was aware that the intro was a bit long - I had actually cut it in half! I did try to separate the instruments with lots of EQ, but, as you said, most were playing in the same octave, and so only really playing with their stereo field placement and their level of reverb was open to me in that respect. The alternative (as you said) was to remove some of the instruments for some of the time. That would probably been the thing to do and "unmuddle" the themes! Anyway, glad you liked most of it, and "got" the idea that the blackout in the end was actually a good thing, hence the "happy" feel/resolution towards the end of the track.

Glad the new phones worked out too! Still pushing on with my 25 year old Sennheisers! But then, I also have 70 year old ears to contend with

dB

Thanks Trojak : > what i do is that i lower the ceiling in Limiter on master to -0.1 dB and than maximizing the volume with gain. Than i also pull up the release so i get back some dynamics. Now here's the question: am i crazy?

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 28, 2019 21:40 CET

The Exponent - Desolation
As I said before I like the simple easy to remember. Nice melodic introduction and not just effects. You show you don't need to use orchestral stuff to create track with epic feel. It have the most Epic feel of of tracks posted here. I can only say - cool.

Now to my favorite part. Mix seems to be balanced most of time with some minor jumps here and there. Most problematic part is the one with this detuned "piano". You removed too much upper harmonics and most frequencies for it are between 600 - 1000HZ make it little muddy and harsh. Yup on my new LZR 980 it is really obvious. Look like that sound is played later too when normal piano is introduced leaving those peaks in frequency I mention. So mix regarding frequency seems ok but problem here is stage. No depth here and maybe there is little too much reverb. Not sure why but it looks like these days trend is use as much reverb as you can on everything to create stage. I can't hear that much reverb in any awesome production from some well known music even if I play more synthesized stuff for example from Jarre or Vangelis not to mention some jazz or orchestral stuff. They sound more dry with just little reverb when needed to create depth.

Max momentary loudness -10,5 LUFS
Max short term loudness -10,9 LUFS
Integrated loudness -14,0 LUFS
Loudness range 8,7 LU
True peak L -0,94dB
True peak R -0,95dB
DC offset L 0%
DC offset R 0%
---------------------------

I deliberately made that "detuned piano section" very lo fi and have band passed the section between "~500 to 2000 Hz" to give it a telephonic feel. It is meant to be harsh and sound that way. I'm glad that effect worked as intended

I had removed reverb from almost everything except the impacts. Don't know what you're talking about. But oh well

While I do understand that you have your own tastes and interpretation but please read the brief again (genre being epic music and theme being a blackout). But that's just me. Have a great day

J I L L I A M wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 29, 2019 05:09 CET

Thanks Trojak : > what i do is that i lower the ceiling in Limiter on master to -0.1 dB and than maximizing the volume with gain. Than i also pull up the release so i get back some dynamics. Now here's the question: am i crazy?

I'd suggest you to get a true peak limiter (a free one like Unlimited) and set the true peak output threshold to at least -1.1 dB to avoid that clipping. You don't have to make your tracks so loud. Loudness != Quality. I'd recommend you do some reading on mixing to maximize clarity and perceived loudness. This will allow your mix to sound loud without cranking up the gain.

Use Youlean loudness meter to measure the overall loudness in terms of integrated LUFS and typically aim no higher than -12 dB for all practical purposes. Most platforms will bring down your loudness so keep this in mind. All the best buddy

Thanks man, i'm all about to learn this before i'll finish current WIP-track