Mix Challenge

J I L L I A M wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 29, 2019 06:01 CET

Thanks man, i'm all about to learn this before i'll finish current WIP-track

Really enjoying your creativity on SoundCloud. Good stuff! With a little better mixing and mastering, your music is going to sound even more awesome! Good luck

I've been listening to everyone's entries. Lots of good stuff this month. I'll have my votes and commentary up soon.

I do feel like there's a bit of dissonance between the theme and the instructions we were given about how to follow the theme. If someone had just told me "make a track about a blackout", I probably would've written a folk song with guitar and vocals. Instead I went absurdly epic, for better or worse I'm honestly not a huge fan of so called "epic music" but I wanted to give it my best shot.

The Exponent wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 29, 2019 05:32 CET

I deliberately made that "detuned piano section" very lo fi and have band passed the section between "~500 to 2000 Hz" to give it a telephonic feel. It is meant to be harsh and sound that way. I'm glad that effect worked as intended

Not sure if lofi means to remove everything except certain frequency range. Even if I take simple square without any effect and even in limited sample rate there are still upper harmonics for it in whole spectrum. You remove them making it sound more harsh then lofi. No to mention q - resonance settings in bandpass filter where high q mean really harsh sound.

The Exponent wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 29, 2019 05:32 CET

I had removed reverb from almost everything except the impacts. Don't know what you're talking about. But oh well

Then you achieved similar effect without using reverb. Too much EQing everything, removing too much from sound low, high, bandpassing may have similar effect. Most common way to simulate depth is to cut high and low frequencies to make it sound more mufled. Adding other additional effects like chorus, phaser blur the sound even more and it have lamost reverb like feel.

The Exponent wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 29, 2019 05:32 CET

While I do understand that you have your own tastes and interpretation but please read the brief again (genre being epic music and theme being a blackout). But that's just me. Have a great day

Actually I mean this as compliment. That you achieved the theme goal perfectly. Otherwise I would not put your track on 2nd (first place on my first voting but then I decide to switch based on personal preferences). You prove you got skills and you know what you are doing not like me. I have different taste for music but you are able to get my atention.

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 29, 2019 09:20 CET

Not sure if lofi means to remove everything except certain frequency range. Even if I take simple square without any effect and even in limited sample rate there are still upper harmonics for it in whole spectrum. You remove them making it sound more harsh then lofi. No to mention q - resonance settings in bandpass filter where high q mean really harsh sound.

So even though I mentioned a bandpass effect, I technically didn't use a "bandpass" filter, rather used a LP and HP to carve out the frequency range. I wanted to achieve a lo-fi, "telephone effect" and if you read up on it, the frequency band of an old telephone is approximately just that. There was a very gradual roll-off that I used for the LP and HP. Going over your feedback for the other tracks, I must say that your ears are quite sensitive and a lot of sounds apparently sound too harsh to you. I appreciate that, will keep this in mine next time.

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 29, 2019 09:20 CET

Then you achieved similar effect without using reverb. Too much EQing everything, removing too much from sound low, high, bandpassing may have similar effect. Most common way to simulate depth is to cut high and low frequencies to make it sound more mufled. Adding other additional effects like chorus, phaser blur the sound even more and it have lamost reverb like feel.

The acoustic sounds have almost no EQ/FX. I have not EQed much apart from subtle HP/LP, trying to make the sounds fit better in the mix and not fight each other. No offence, but you seem to have a dangerously flawed notion of depth and space of a mix in the context of certain genres/styles. Reverb also adds depth to sounds if used properly and is not just used to "glue" sounds together. As you rightly said, depth can be achieved using a lot of things and that includes reverb. Might I humbly suggest you read this, even though you are apparently very knowledgeable on the topic. https://theproaudiofiles.com/width-heig ... -in-a-mix/

Also, quite curious, maybe you could share some tracks of your taste and liking which demonstrate this depth you keep talking about. I'm very interested in learning more on this and implement it better in my future endeavors.

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 28, 2019 21:40 CET

Leonard Bowman - Post
This is neat track with interesting elements. Mid ambient part that act like very slow riser is cool. What I miss is more dynamics in brass section in intro but also at the end. For example the track should start with brass playing softer. You played it whole time overblown even on lover velocity. Same for end part that is played with lover amplitude but still sounds overblown making it sounds more artificial. If the library you are using doesn't have enough velocity layers you need to simulate them with filter.

Stage is missing. The whole track sounds like you have reverb on master in order to add some room or rather said space to everything. Even that reverb widen track, it still feels like sound is coming from center of room. In brass section there is almost nothing in 100HZ and bellow making it sound weak. But it is hard to analyze tonal balance here because of that reverb end how it is setup.

Thanks for the technical analysis and mixing/staging advice.

A little of what's going on from my view:
Most of my sound is going through the reverb send, which was a short-decay Protoverb to add a little sense of location. It does reinforce the low/mid range a bit, for better or worse.
I probably should have added a sub to my tuba part for the intro, but for thematic reasons i'm fine with it as is. I'm perfectly okay with my intro brass sounding artificial, to be honest.
It's the ending section where I would have put in the expression had I had time. And then I would work on staging (pretty much everything is effectively center-panned), and a better mix (aside from adjusting volume levels, I didn't do much mixing at all). By the time I got to this point I wanted to move on; the track got the baseline of my idea across and I didn't feel like slogging through the mixing process just to share what I came up with.

The Exponent wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 29, 2019 09:57 CET

No offence, but you seem to have a dangerously flawed notion of depth and space of a mix in the context of certain genres/styles. Reverb also adds depth to sounds if used properly and is not just used to "glue" sounds together. As you rightly said, depth can be achieved using a lot of things and that includes reverb. Might I humbly suggest you read this, even though you are apparently very knowledgeable on the topic. https://theproaudiofiles.com/width-heig ... -in-a-mix/

Also, quite curious, maybe you could share some tracks of your taste and liking which demonstrate this depth you keep talking about. I'm very interested in learning more on this and implement it better in my future endeavors.

I repeat again (I think it is already third time) I post suggestions. My suggestion are my based on my experience and it is how I see it not that it should be that way. You alone choose your way. If you think it is nonsense then good, if you think that those are nice ideas good, if you don't care good. No matter what you think about my "rant" is good.

Telling somebody that he has flawed notion of depth is weird. If you think that you have to stick to to same weird rules made by somebody about space and stage in certain style then good. I prefer to get past of the these "rules" to make something different. If we start adding more and more restriction to style we end with morse code style. You can be the one following the rules or you can try to be the one making them. It is up to you. Whatever you choose and makes you happy is good.

Regarding example of depth I'm talking about we do not need to go too far. There is somebody you already know from KVR OSC. He always makes fabulous mix where you can't find harsh sounds and looks like we have similar taste for stage and depth.But every other his track even are fantastic regarding mix and stage and beyond. No to mention that he was able to make this using only one synth.

To give you different example of fabulous stage that I wish I can make is for example this:

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 29, 2019 18:03 CET

The Exponent wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 29, 2019 09:57 CET

No offence, but you seem to have a dangerously flawed notion of depth and space of a mix in the context of certain genres/styles. Reverb also adds depth to sounds if used properly and is not just used to "glue" sounds together. As you rightly said, depth can be achieved using a lot of things and that includes reverb. Might I humbly suggest you read this, even though you are apparently very knowledgeable on the topic. https://theproaudiofiles.com/width-heig ... -in-a-mix/

Also, quite curious, maybe you could share some tracks of your taste and liking which demonstrate this depth you keep talking about. I'm very interested in learning more on this and implement it better in my future endeavors.

I repeat again (I think it is already third time) I post suggestions. My suggestion are my based on my experience and it is how I see it not that it should be that way. You alone choose your way. If you think it is nonsense then good, if you think that those are nice ideas good, if you don't care good. No matter what you think about my "rant" is good.

Telling somebody that he has flawed notion of depth is weird. If you think that you have to stick to to same weird rules made by somebody about space and stage in certain style then good. I prefer to get past of the these "rules" to make something different. If we start adding more and more restriction to style we end with morse code style. You can be the one following the rules or you can try to be the one making them. It is up to you. Whatever you choose and makes you happy is good.

No offence meant! I'm sorry, all is good I will refrain from commenting back or quoting you again. You do well Trojak

Sorry- in these comments I use the word epic a lot. By epic I mean those big movie theater drums and strings, like I dunno a hollywood blockbuster soundtrack. Last Mohican or some shit.

------------------

Anthemic
NDE

-Sounds good like a very high-end british TV crime drama
-Insanely crisp and clean
-Ear candy thank you
-Interesting chords and composition to a rather straightforward rhythmic repetition, but I'm not sure I’m buying it
-Not very epic, but blended soundtrack and EDM milieu. Talented work

——————————

Mountaine
Who Knew

-Smooth sound design
-Damn that drone is so grim
-Big… almost Epic. Like scratching at it but not quite there
-Crystal clear, enormous soundstage
-I like the pedal tone bit
-This is very dark
-Honestly this is a great video game soundtrack moreso than epic song

——————————

TrojakEW
Restart

-Exquisite. Expensive and expansive sounding
-Minor and pretty
-This is an epic song with that percussion
-Sounds utterly professional why aren’t you doing soundtracks? (Maybe you are?)

——————————

DoctorBob
Phone Freakin

-Wicked sound design in the intro
-I mean, there is definitely something awful happening at the beginning. Someone dying, running, breathing, yelling — chaos!
-Lot going on here
-Overall highpassed sound, I wish it was a bit thicker (but it's probably my dumb room)
-4:20 onward is great
-Repetitive but effective
-Fluty arpeggios give it that drama
-Pretty transitions
-That epic sound is here

——————————

J I L L I A M
A Sad Quiet Age/Only Wind Is Howling

-Hot and sizzled and overcompressed, but it works. It absolutely distinguishes this track
-Other tracks are so pristine, I love the artifacts and clipping in this, honestly the most 'blackout' vibe of the month
-Really like the mellotron sounding thing :40 onwards
-Most original ideas so far
-2:00 transition is killer
-Dark, terrifying sound
-Well done (on several levels)

——————————

The Exponent
Desolation

-Okay I really like this once we get 2:00 in
-Lots going on but it’s creating a pleasant, mutating mass of sound
-I guess this month’s themes almost dictate minor progressions, but it can get repetitive
-“Hello” thing is cool, with the warped instrument providing an unsettling audio feeling
-I like the Kaiju warning horn (see link below) as the track outros

——————————

Clueless
Dark Days

-Another kaiju warning horn, I guess it’s a staple of epic music
-Okay we’re transitioning to more of a stab-like sound
-This sounds terrifying by the way (in a good way)
-It’s got a very cold quality especially with the amount of white noise sounds involved. Thematically this is a smart move
-That transition at 2:30 could have been handled a bit more artfully
-Effective bass sound for sure
-3:40 on is very beautiful
-Not sure about the life support sound, kinda…ordinary I guess

——————————

UprightJoe
A Call Unanswered

-More drone
-Horror movie intro, then we get very epic
-Yep, epic strings. This is great
-Those drums really define the genre don’t they?
-Man that slide guitar out of left field rules. Finally something unexpected!
-Little bit of NFL wrap-up show vibe, but only for a bit

——————————

toadhjo
Apocalypse Makes Perfect

-Kaiju warning horn again
-Epic drums. Epic instrumentation. Okay, this is epic
-Disturbing, unsettling track
-Honestly the intro was my favorite part, that sound design works
-I’m down with the peaceful outro, nice contrasts there
-I’ll be unsettled all week

——————————

Dr Dendrite
Symphonic Protestant

-More kaiju warning horn!!
-Title is the best one this month. Totally fuckin rules
-The progression at :50 is brilliant, gives me a strong cowboy western energy crossed with olympic music
-Where do you get such clean symphonic instruments? I feel like I’m using crayons to your oil paints
-I’d like some greasier rhythm with this percussion (though I suppose it’s not really in the genre)
-This is the most epic progression
-Very intense transition, let’s see if it pays off:
-Meh. I can see the wisdom is the rise and fall. Good backdrop for a stunning galactic realization, interstellar style

——————————

Los_ady
Lost your head

-Cool intro this is easily the ‘coolest’ track this month
-Four on the floor hell yea
-Instrumentation is so clean and beautiful
-I’m not getting an epic vibe. It’s pristine, and sounds incredible, though
-Definitely has a character of it’s own
-Very compelling pulse to this one
-Just not what I think of after reading the contest guidelines. Which is fine obviously

——————————

MarkS
Strange Things

-Dark. So dark. I can’t see shit (kidding)
-First entry with a compelling rhythm very nice
-When everything starts mixing together this takes on a decidedly sinister vibe
-Challenging track. It’s almost purposefully trying to provoke you with its synth hits
-I’m not feeling the purpose behind some of the compositional choices. Ah, okay there’s a busy signal that ties it together
-Definitely lives up to its title

———————————

Note: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j4OLaytu_s

———————————

Leonard Bowman
Post

-Soundtrack supreme. Nice mixing of instruments and themes.
-Expressive chord changes. Brass sounds great in chord context.
-Middle section - I wanted something more to happen honestly. Secondary melody or somethin.
-I dig how rhythm picks up though.
-Careful with some of the programming - the quick note changes expose the brass instrument as a vst.
-Very pretty dissonance in places.

--------------------

Here we go. While ranking I accounted both for how much I enjoyed the track and also for how epic it felt.

As usual ranking these was hard. Looking at my rankings again, I'm wondering why certain songs are so low. But I suppose that's just how it goes when you're dealing with a talented group!

J I L L I A M – A Sad Quiet World

The intro build up is well executed. The drums that come in at around the 3-minute mark are nicely programmed – they’re dynamic and fit the piece nicely.

On the other hand, I feel the “bass and whoosing” parts (particularly the one between 2 and 3 minutes) are too static. I wouldn’t say they’re too long, but it feels like something should be happening or changing during that time, even if it’s something subtle. Also, the entire mix is too loud and feels claustrophobic. Outside of the ride cymbal there isn’t much happening on the high end. It’s a good track that could be made even better with some tweaks.

Los_ady – Lost Your Head

I had a bit of trouble making heads or tails of this one. The basic groove is fine and there are lots of interesting sounds. I also like the opening – it sets the tone nicely. But overall I feel like the track would need more development and variation to really draw me in.

ANTHEMIC – NDE

Love the intro. It has a nice gradual buildup and all the parts seem to come in at exactly the right time. But I’m not so high on the rest of the track. I feel it could use more development and variation. Having the wub-wub bass groove on a different note from time to time could do the trick (but maybe that’s a no-no in this genre of music?).

The mix sounds good to my ears. Nice range and balance between the instruments.

Clueless – Dark Days

The title doesn’t lie – this is DARK. I love the gristle that smothers most of the instruments. The lack of high and low end works well here – it creates a very evocative “hollow” vibe.

I’m torn about this one. It would be great music for a cyberpunk or neo-noir film but I wouldn’t describe it as “epic”.
I noticed a weird pause – complete silence – at 2:27. I found it rather jarring. Perhaps the reverb from the previous part should keep going until the next part starts?

Dr Dendrite – Symphonic Protestant

The first half sounds reminds me of the Inception theme. The trumpets are a bit too bright in my opinion – maybe they could be EQed differently? Or substituted for a different instrument?

At first I wasn’t particularly moved by the second half, but after listening some more I’m beginning to enjoy it. Still too drawn out for my taste, though.

Mountaine – Who Knew...?

Smooth is the word I’d use to describe this track. From the opening with the buzzsaw in the background to the ending with its clockwork rhythms, the track just flows. The sudden thump in the middle is a great attention grabber. I don’t really get “epic” vibes from it but I do enjoy it.

The Exponent – Desolation

Nice buildup in the first minute. I like how the percussive hits are used sparsely. The wonky piano and tick-tock noises are an excellent pairing.

A good interpretation of the theme and excellent work all around.

TrojakEW – Restart

The percussion makes a great initial impact and the entire track is superbly mixed. The vocals sound authentic and carry a nice emotional weight. I also like all the neat sounds interspersed throughout the track – they really enliven the atmosphere.

My biggest criticism is that, by the end, I’m a bit bored with the chord progression. But overall this is solid work and I really enjoy it.

UprightJoe – A Call Unanswered

I have mixed feelings about this one. But let’s start off with the good: I like the composition. It reminds me of the Deus Ex theme.

But I have a few issues. First off, I’m not a huge fan of the string sounds. In some places they sound fine, but in others they sound very artificial. (I realize I’m that dude in a glass house throwing rocks, because the strings in my piece and fake beyond fake.) I don’t think it would be such a problem if they weren’t so front and center – maybe more reverb could’ve softened them up?

I read your description and understand what you’re trying to convey with the dobro. To be honest I’m not a huge fan. After a few listens it’s grown on me somewhat but I still have a feeling you could’ve found a better way to execute the concept.

DoctorBob – PhoneFreakin

The intro is very evocative. The transition to the second section is very abrupt – maybe too abrupt – but I can live with it.

The piece proper is very dynamic and interesting. There’s so much going on and so much variation that my brain has trouble processing it. Although the track is in 4/4, the way instruments weave in and out of the mix at unexpected times gives it a very dynamic feel.

Mix-wise, I feel that more activity on the low-end could make the track feel even more epic. It sounds great as is but comes across as majestic more than epic.

Great stuff. I listened a few times and I’m sure I will keep hearing new things if I listen more times.

erictracks – maybe it’s a good thing

I like the mix of shimmering guitar and synths. Certain parts, particularly the first part with the drum kit, remind me of the music from the Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney series. In terms of mixing, sometimes the drums and strings feel a bit out of balance with the rest of the parts, as though they’re in a different space. A very nice piece, but a bit too really capture that elusive “epic” feeling.

MarkS – Strange Things

A very dark piece. In my opinion it feels very sparse and unfocused. Lots of neat sounds and fun experimental noodling but it doesn’t seem to lead anywhere.

And now on to the voting ...

Thanks @toadhjo for your lovely comments! My 70 year old ears may not be as good as yours so I may miss things in the mix! If you do get to listen a few more times, listen out for that little high soprano voice at the end of the first two of the little vocal phrases from 4:28 onwards. I did spend a lot of time crafting the little motifs to interwork and intertwine, and that was one little item I thought was very fitting, but may well be missed on a cursory listen!

Regards

dB