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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC096 February 2024 - Submissions until 21-FEB-2024 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 00:46 CET
by Jorgeelalto
Gius wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 22:00 CET
MC096__Mark_II__Memorization__Gius

https://mega.nz/folder/Y3AVWJiZ#25v7D178QNwJhp6UDYAVbA

(There is a HQ WAV and an mp3 for preview)

I mixed in Ableton Live, a bit in a rush, in a good way, and was happy with the results. Then the classic self-doubt when referencing the original, but I decided to go with this version. Exporting time is not decision time. Doubts come at that stage of the process :wink:

From "top to bottom":
- the mixbus has only eq, a touch of saturation from a pultec, and the god particle without the limiter engaged which comes down to its stereo widening and a touch of multiband compression.
- three main groups/busses: Drums, Bass, and Music, each one with eq and saturation
- a main parallel bus (sort of Andrew Scheps "Rearbus") which gives cohesion to the whole and keeps dominant instruments.. well.. dominant, ducking everything else when they play.
- Tracks in the session are grouped by type of sound: bass, kicks, snares, hats and cymbals, percussions, music elements like main synths and accent synths, and the vocal track.
- Pretty much every track has been eq'd, stereo splitted with waves xSplit Eq or similar devices (which "pan" some frequencies on different sides, which I think is a more mono-compatible way to do this than other stereo widening techniques) or using pancake for auto-panning.
- Sidechaining most bass and music tracks to the kick with soothe.
- Drums also has 3 parallel tracks, 1 for kick and snares, 2 other for groups of drum tracks.
- the voice has a parallel pitch/formant shifted double to give it a touch of alien feeling. A pity that there was a lot of music in the voice sample so I had to keep it a touch quieter than what I would have.
- some automations: volume, track panning that changes over time, the main stereo widening on the mixbus changes to give different sizes to the song sections or to keep things changing subtly.

I've done a screen recording where I share the session

https://youtu.be/sMSezsFrQ4w
(private/unlisted)

ps. I hope I'm submitting properly. It's my first time :hail: :smile:

Thanks for the music!
Hola Gius,

Thanks for participating, please make sure the next time there's only one file in the download folder, there were two files. I managed to know which one to download because of the size (quite close to the other participants) :)

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC096 February 2024 - Submissions until 21-FEB-2024 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 00:53 CET
by Jorgeelalto
juhu wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2024 20:18 CET
Hello! :hyper:

1) Please enjoy my mixdown of "Memorization" by Mark II:
http://tinkerstate.com/mix-challenge/MC ... __juhu.wav

2) Documentation available below (click on "SHOW" to expand):
► Show Spoiler
Hi Juhu,

It was kinda difficult to download your mix but I managed to do it using wget in the command line. in Safari I couldn't download it. Just wanted to let you know :tu:

MIX CHALLENGE - MC096 February 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 09:43 CET
by Mister Fox
:arrow_right: The "Overview of Submissions" PDFs have been uploaded.
You can check them through the upper post (post #083).



The Statistic Sheet is used to give an overview of all entries, and whether or not they are within given parameters (loudness, sampling rate, bitrate, proper filename). This is adding to the overall learning process of the "Mix(ing) Challenge". Please take note that creating this sheet is not a fully automated process. I am using Wavelab 10's "Batch Analysis" tool (EBU R-128 specs / equivalent to ITU-R BS.1770-4), but the overall layout and highlighting issues/mishaps, not to mention triple checking files and time stamps, is time consuming. If you do not find yourself on this list, please let me know.

:arrow_right: Please keep in mind, your mix being "tagged disqualified", does not mean "you're out of the game" (exceptions do apply). For more information on the Statistic Sheet and the "Wild Card" Mechanic, please consult the following addendum thread:

Mix Challenge - Addendum: Statistic Sheet and Wild Card Mechanic



:arrow_right: Statistics Addendum:
 ⚠ Moderation Message from Mister Fox  
We have a disqualification rate of 19,15% for February 2024 (47 entries, 9 disqualifications, 1 "Out of Competition" submission not counting).

This is the lowest value since June 2022 (which was 13,95%). As usual, many of these disqualifications are due to carelessness errors: wrong sampling rate, loudness specs, and files that were non-accessible (also see the provided "TL;DR Rules.txt" file).

On average (29 months of tracking), we currently have a disqualification rate of 25,58% (compared to last game's 25,80% avg), the rate is slightly declining still. The disqualification rate over the course of the last 12 games (April 2022 to February 2024) is about 25,15% (previously 25,42%), and is back on an slight decline.

I strongly recommend all participants to pay more attention to details in future games. It is still a shame to see entries being "tagged OUT" for the fact that they can't be accessed.



:arrow_right: A commentary on this month's entries:

Yet another very warm welcome to all new participants who have found their way into our little community. I do hope you enjoy your stay, had fun, and could learn something from this experience. It saddens me a bit however to not see the usual amounts of regulars - despite sending out more newsletters thanks to the new engine. Maybe it was the genre, maybe it was something else. Either way, I am not giving up on acquiring new source material for future mixing games. I have a feeling, we will still hear and get access to outstanding material.


I actually had the statistic Sheets ready on 22-FEB-2024 -- however there were some things I wanted to get sorted out first with our kind Song Provider, before I posted the PDFs.

One of the things we talked about, and ultimately decided upon, was giving @FromAtoZMix a "grace period". This entry was initially "tagged OUT" due to the entry being posted 3min after the deadline (you know the rules!). However, the file was uploaded prior to the deadline. So we consider this to be an unfortunate "server glitch" and kindly ask everyone to not post entries at the very last minute. Each Mix(ing) Challenge offers you 21 days, please use your time wisely.


We also had long chats about the accessibility of the files. This is mostly related to those users that utilized OneDrive (Microsoft).

We had various issues accessing the files. Firefox sporadically decided to fully access them during one hour of the day, then the next it requested a login. Same with Google Chrome of various versions. We could manage to get all files - however, we did have to pull every trick in the book: reset our browsers (try multiple versions even), flush cookies, utilize logins. In fact, @onecake2's entry still has the sporadic "something went wrong, try again later" error message, while the entries by @LowlandsWave, @Dodgingrain and @DIVESPANNER eventually worked out. We do not know why this happened, or why this is still the case. However, we send out a warning that third party file storage providers can change security settings overnight that are suddenly incompatible with browsers, effectively locking you out of access. We let this slide this month -- at the same time, I am investigating possible solutions for future games as well.

On similar behalf, we are also addressing warnings to @Mellow Browne and @Gius, as these entries were not directly accessible. In case of the former, GoogleDrive refused to let me access the WAV file and forced me to download a ZIP file (which resulted in a file date from 1980!). In case of the latter, I could access the WAV file - but I had to select the correct file first. Looking at the entry by @juhu - I almost missed that one, since I didn't notice that Firefox tagged the download as "not secure" and refused to download without me confirming that everything is fine (I noticed this while triple checking all entries). Our Song Provider @Jorgeelalto had to do similar on MacOS (he had to use wget in the command line).

Unfortunately @AlexAlba has been "tagged OUT" due to the fact that GoogleDrive insisted on asking us for a log in, and once we did that, it asked for a "file access request". The user in question made the file available on 22-FEB-2024. I did run a statistic analysis for that entry as well (see "Out of Competition" section on the Statistic Sheet). This is also the only entry, where the filename template wasn't properly used.

@Mr sj actually posted twice (possible server glitch?), and both entries lead to a folder stating "file has been deleted". There was also no documentation posted. So that entry is also fully "tagged OUT".

@denismusic2023 kind of completely ignored the well established rule book. Not only was this entry uploaded to Soundcloud (neither allowed, nor full credits given in the description) - I could only acquire a copy in MP3 form, not in WAV. Therefore, "tagged OUT". The entry also exceeds the loudness specs (in fact, this is the loudest entry at -8,0 LUFS ILk), and there is no documentation either.

And the last "tagged OUT" is actually from @wkanegis -- unfortunately, that entry was submitted 1,5 hours after the deadline (and my "closing" post, actually). Pity, as this entry doesn't have any "file issues" -- if only the Global Countdown was taken into consideration.

However, as you can see on the Statistic Sheets, we could access nearly all files - and have been very lenient. Please be careful in the future - we're still simulating a "Client to Business" scenario... if the "client" can't access your files, they will stop doing business with you.


The rest are the usual small mistakes that merely result in a "tagged disqualified". Funny enough, only one entry didn't use the provided filename template. Nearly all entries that are still in the game also have some form of documentation (some more, some just barely scratching the surface). Else, usual things like wrong sampling rate, and signals overshooting. Although we have a couple of entries are are actually shorter than the provided demo mix (which is still not a disqualification criteria!).



:arrow_right: To close this out.

Both @Jorgeelalto and I are happy with the overall participation. We hoped for more entries (again: see the new newsletter), but who knows what will still happen in 2024. :thinking:


A huge thank you to everyone that invested time with this month's game. I hope you had fun.

See you in the next one. :headphones:
.




:information_source: I now (re-)open the field for everyone to give each other feedback (highly encouraged). This will be independent to the client feedback however. Though please note - criticism on the rule set and angry posts will be deleted without further notice.


Please watch this spot for the client feedback and Mix Round 2 participant announcement.

This will ideally happen sometime within the next 14 days (starting tomorrow).

We (as in: the Song Provider and I) will keep you updated, and of course send out appropriate reminder newsletters!



EDIT: 24-FEB-2024 09:40 UTC+1/CET - initial post

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC096 February 2024 - Submissions until 21-FEB-2024 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 14:14 CET
by juhu
Jorgeelalto wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2024 00:53 CET
Hi Juhu,

It was kinda difficult to download your mix but I managed to do it using wget in the command line. in Safari I couldn't download it. Just wanted to let you know :tu:
Hey Jorge, I just tested with Safari on macOS Sonoma and was able to download the .wav file easily by one of two ways:
  • by Ctrl+clicking on the link and choosing "Download linked file as...", or,
  • by Shift+clicking on the link to open it in a new browser window and then pressing Cmd+S to save the file
No idea what caused the issue at your end :shrug:

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC096 February 2024 - Submissions until 21-FEB-2024 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 17:14 CET
by Jorgeelalto
juhu wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2024 14:14 CET
Jorgeelalto wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2024 00:53 CET
Hi Juhu,

It was kinda difficult to download your mix but I managed to do it using wget in the command line. in Safari I couldn't download it. Just wanted to let you know :tu:
Hey Jorge, I just tested with Safari on macOS Sonoma and was able to download the .wav file easily by one of two ways:
  • by Ctrl+clicking on the link and choosing "Download linked file as...", or,
  • by Shift+clicking on the link to open it in a new browser window and then pressing Cmd+S to save the file
No idea what caused the issue at your end :shrug:
Ahh, I see, maybe I wasn't patient enough. I'm definitely more used to the command line than any browser's download features, though :exhausted: Cheers!

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC096 February 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2024 02:25 CET
by Clueless
Oops, too high lufs
I also posted a week earlier than was necessary
I need to give my head a wobble :)

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC096 February 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 09:52 CET
by Jorgeelalto
Hi all,

I got the feedback ready. Let's get it out of the way. If you are on the feedback list, congrats, you are selected for a second round :grin:

First, special mention to @Christoph_K who I had selected to second round but had to retire from the competition for private reasons.
  • @Christoph_K: I like what you did to the bass in general, I think it cuts through the mix really well and it is also very present. The sidechain effect is really well thought out, but I miss it a bit on some sequenced synths that hit alongside the kick, making it sound different sometimes (especially the 3rd beat, listen at 3:52 to end). Reverb and delay effects are really well used too, giving it an extra depth that I like. The stutter effect, I feel like it sounds too artificial where it is, given that it affects the whole mix. Maybe I would have tried to make it affect some elements and not others, so it doesn’t sound like the actual track is broken.
Now onto the 15 people that go to second round, in alphabetical order:
  • @cpsmusic: The kick cuts through the mix really well, and alongside the sequenced synths it creates a really nice groove, especially starting at around 3:30, I like it a lot. In general the mix is quite well balanced but it sounds a bit muffled, feels like a lack of high frequencies and maybe bass, so more like abundance of mids, which help translate hits and short sounds but removes clarity. The flanging effect on the ride is interesting but I feel like it changes the character of the sound too much. The hi hat sounds a bit thin and it doesn’t fill the spectrum as much as I would like, it being the complementary sound to the kick, should be more powerful.
  • @Davias: Overall balance of the mix is good but it really needs more sidechain (pumping effect) for added groove. It really is the base of faster 4 to the floor music like this, and what makes it interesting. There are also phasing effects in the rides that are too obvious. The way you play with dynamics is really great, I like how you can really feel the energy building on every section leading to the next. Clarity is great, amount of high and low frequency content is good, although disturbed by the ride phasing sound.
  • @FromAtoZMix: I feel like the kick is too clicky and cuts through the mix too much (too loud?). That unbalances the mix and makes it hard to judge it in general, because everything other than the kick and a few sounds (risers/FXs, some sequenced synths) are too low. The effect is less noticeable in busier sections (at around 3:30 for example), but there are a lot of elements that are hidden basically, like synth accents at around 3:55. But although loud, the kick is well shaped and I like how hard it hits. Relationship between the kick and the hats/rides is great too! I feel like it would need a bit more sidechain too, although maybe it is because of the balance problem.
  • @juhu: This mix is unfortunate, because I quite like some of the aesthetic choices you made, especially the delays in the synth accents, reverbs to create space in some effect and synth sounds, and the rhythm of the hi hats. But it suffers from a muffled sound too, feels as if the high end was cut at like 12kHz but accentuated just before that (at around 8-10kHz). Hats groove is great! Lots of sounds are very distorted and sometimes they get lost in the noise, indistinguishable from the originals — maybe a combination of both the original sounds and the great ambiences you create with the distortions and effects would work better?
  • @MartialFromentin: It suffers a bit from lack of balance between the kick and the rest of the mix. That hurts the whole mix because the sidechain is sometimes not noticeable, especially in the reverb bass, and most other elements hide behind the busy drums. I gotta say you got the general groove well, and there are some percussion elements that I forgot were there and you brought them up again and I like that a lot. You play with delays really well too, I think the mix has a great potential if the balance is fixed. The kick has also great punch.
  • @Mellow Browne: With these bass heavy genres it is easy to overdo low frequencies and that is what happened here. The mix sounds really great in general if I apply low end correction but sounds “muddy” when loudness normalised because everything else apart from bass gets lost in there. Also, a bit more sidechain to add groove to the track would work wonders, try not only mix-focused sidechain (purely technical, to aid in the mix) but also a aesthetic choice (usually sidechain in electronic music is synced to between 1/4th and 1/2th of the beat). I can hear elements with more sidechain but others with almost none (that I can perceive). Some sound effects, are quite loud too and don’t gel with the rest of the elements too well.
  • @MFTWC: Overall a great, balanced mix. I like the delays and reverbs on the synth accents. The kick tone and bass layers work really well. I find the ride noisy distortion quite distracting because it is irregular, sounds like a random source amplitude modulating it??? Not sure about it but there are parts in which the modulation is quicker and others in which it is not, so a lot of variation which brings the sound into focus. That is a problem because the ride is supposed to accompany the rest of the drum sounds and act as a steady, groovy element that also increases tension (rising pitch). In general sounds quite distorted and I like it, no drum element lost its transient energy.
  • @Michael_K: Although the balance is almost there, there are two big things happening here that bring it back quite a lot. First of all, there is a lack of punch/energy from the low end in general that makes the mix very midrange focused. In general the balance of the midrange is good and the tone of the kick’s click is good but, with no bass the track has no “base substance”. This is exacerbated by the lack of sidechain, which makes the mix a bit muddy in the busier parts (see 3:40 onwards) and, more importantly, doesn’t create a groove between the kick, sequenced basses and synth accents. Definitely try to force sidechain with a volume LFO or automation and you will see that it comes to life.
  • @PauPeu: A really great mix overall. You took quite a bit of creative liberties that affect the arrangement, some of them are welcome changes for sure, but others I don’t see them working with the idea I had for the track. The sidechain is really well done, and kick vs rest of the mix balance are on point, I can see you could extract a really loud master from this mix. The reverb at the kick at around 1:12, I don’t like it that much. I guess the aim is to turn the energy of the track down a bit, but maybe there is another way of getting there without moving the whole kick to another space.
  • @Pitta: I like the aesthetic of your mix a lot. Looks like you went for a “deeper”/more minimal sound/arrangement, and I can appreciate it. Unfortunately it kinda makes the mix sound a bit muddy sometimes, and some sounds too far away (around 3:23, almost all of the accent synths). The kick-sequenced bass relationship is top though, they work really well. The cut at 2:26, I don’t like it much, sounds like a glitch in the track, and for me it wrecks the sense of expectation in that section.
  • @Ronson79: Solid mix, lots of bass and great groove with drum elements and sidechain. The synths and accents are quite a bit low in volume and they are really lost in the mix though, and those are what keep the track interesting, so it ends up sounding weird — as if the mix is timid to show its tricks. Same thing happens in the euphoric, sequence part at around 1:56, where the sequenced synth is loud enough but the rest of the elements (sound effects, atmos and pads) are low and don’t give it a “grand” feeling. Remember, even though these genres are focused on really few basic things that you nailed (bass, main synths, kick), it’s the combination of this and the rest of the minor elements what makes a full and interesting track.
  • @rvalle: Really really good. Solid bass and groove. The only thing that didn’t work 100% for me is the volume of some of the synth accents/sounds, like the stabs at 3:50, makes the mix less powerful overall — read Ronson’s comment, second half. For the rest of the mix, I can’t say much — it is just good. The sidechain is perfectly timed too. I miss some density in the hat section, if there is any way you could make them sound bigger (not louder though), it would be nice.
  • @scottfitz: Balance between highs and mids is great, to be honest not much to say there. I like the delays in the pluck/accent synths a lot! There are two big things with this mix though. The first is, a lack of bass amount and groove. I think you are relying too much in the reverb bass and too little on the sequenced basses, so you got all the texture good but it is missing rhythm. Then, most of the sound effects are too loud, which does not integrate them into the mix, making it sound out of context. The biggest example I think is in 2:09, where the riser is loud and then ends abruptly, leaving you thinking “what was exactly coming? I was expecting a big hit or synth to enter!”.
  • @shroom feverish: Unfortunately there is a big middle scoop in the frequency spectrum of the track that makes it a bit hard to evaluate. Big kick boom and bright highs, but no middle content make it lose definition and hide all elements. Unfortunate, because the aesthetic is cool — I like the delay/reverb sounds on the synths in all parts, specially around 0:30 to 1:10, with all the accent synths and the delays making them groovier. I think your mix has great potential if you try to reference it again with the tracks I provided, you will see how bringing those mids back up will make everything clearer and your mix shine.
  • @SimaGT (wildcard): Really great overall balance. Low frequencies are punchy and powerful without being overwhelming or muddy. My favourite part has to be how hard hitting the accent synths are, at around 0:45 and 3:20 sections. It is clear you know how to work with these genres, and I can see it the most with how you EQed the 909 snares at around 2:10, really clear and punchy, working really well as a snare roll. If I have to get a low point of the mix it has to be the piercing eq of the electro fill synth, it stands out in a bad way (the sound at 3:37, 3:08 and so on), a bit overpowered. But overall, really solid sound.
Yeah, @SimaGT I reckon you got disqualification but your mix was so good I had to put you up with the 14 others. If you feel like using one of your wildcards, you are welcome for a second round :grin:

A few words for the participants that did not make it to the second round. In general, biggest problem was balance between low end, mids and highs. Even though these genres are focused on low end, a great mid frequency amount is what adds the definition and punchiness to bass sounds, including the kick. Also, overdoing bass leads to making a mix with little loudness potential (can't compress/limit/clip because the low end ends up distorting before anything else). Then, it is quite easy to overdo the high end a bit too, to try to compensate. I could clearly hear some mixes made with other genres' mindsets, too, which I can totally understand -- if I were to mix rock right now, I would take EDM approaches too. I can't recommend enough to go reference your mix with pro tracks if you have to tackle something like this in the future, and try to mix (DJing) your track with other similar ones so you can see how they would work together. That is a really good guide on how your mix sounds, what it lacks or what it overcooks.

Let me know if you have any question! Glad that I could listen to all your mixes and see you around! And for the ones that go to the second round, also feel free to ask whatever you need (that is allowed by the rules) and I'll listen to you soon :wink:

MIX CHALLENGE - MC096 February 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 12-MAR-2024 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:11 CET
by Mister Fox
Thank you for handling the evaluation, @Jorgeelalto .

Ladies and gentlemen, let us kick off Mix Round 2, which will end on Tuesday, 12-MAR-2024 23:59 UTC+1/CET

As of this moment, that is 5 days (plus the hours since @Jorgeelalto's announcement, and I've updated the post). All Mix Round 2 participants will be sent a reminder via mail shortly.


There is a GLOBAL COUNTDOWN available to check for deadlines.
Just follow this link: Global Countdown (on homepage)



The following 15 participants go into Round 2 (alphabetical order), with "Wild Cards" being pointed out (if present this month).
(all Mix Round 2 participants should have been pinged, all participants will also get a reminder via the new newsletter engine)

@cpsmusic
@Davias
@FromAtoZMix
@juhu
@MartialFromentin
@Mellow Browne
@MFTWC
@Michael_K
@PauPeu
@Pitta
@Ronson79
@rvalle
@scottfitz
@shroom feverish
@SimaGT (Wild Card)
.
 ! Bonus Info
Please read more about the "Wild Card" game mechanic here
Mix Challenge - Addendum: Statistic Sheet and Wild Card Mechanic

All Wild Card users are not only asked to apply the requested changes, but also to fix what they had at fault with Mix Round 1.

Please use the following filename template:
MC096__Mark_II__Memorization__ForumUsername_R2.wav

The feedback to the productions can be found here:
Please see post #097 for individual feedback.



If you are unsure what to do exactly with your mix, reach out to the song provider and engage in a conversation here on the forum.
And please keep the Rules and Guidelines (post #6) in mind regarding submitting your entry. Please do pay attention to detail. (yes, please also check the song length of your entry!)

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC096 February 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 12-MAR-2024 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 13:59 CET
by MFTWC
Thanks for picking my mix for the second round.

Jorgeelalto wrote: Overall a great, balanced mix. I like the delays and reverbs on the synth accents. The kick tone and bass layers work really well. I find the ride noisy distortion quite distracting because it is irregular, sounds like a random source amplitude modulating it??? Not sure about it but there are parts in which the modulation is quicker and others in which it is not, so a lot of variation which brings the sound into focus. That is a problem because the ride is supposed to accompany the rest of the drum sounds and act as a steady, groovy element that also increases tension (rising pitch). In general sounds quite distorted and I like it, no drum element lost its transient energy.


About the Ride track, I automated the frequency of the ring modulator at the same points that were pitch shifted, there were some auto-pan effect aswell, guess i overdid it.


This is what i changed:

A delay fx send that got bussed wrong got reintroduced.

Ride: I used the Klanghelm SDRR2 on the Tube setting to add a bit of distortion and added
some reverb automation.

Hats 3: Used a transient plug-in to tame some hits.

Tweaked the kick & bass relationship a bit.

Some reduction of the harshness of the Vocal sample.

Hope you like the changes.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L92_Sw ... sp=sharing

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC096 February 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 12-MAR-2024 23:59 UTC+1/CET

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 08:36 CET
by SimaGT
Hello again

Sorry for LUFS I subconsciously aimed for -14 because that's the measurement I usually do, fixed now.
I softened those harsh sounding fills as requested and did some barely noticeable resonance taming of few other tracks to.

Cheers


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1us3O_O ... sp=sharing