Mix Challenge

Hello and welcome to the Songwriting Competition 078 - February 2024



BEFORE WE GET STARTED:

• Please consult the official and very simple "Rules and Guidelines" (TL;DR version) for the Songwriting Competition regarding principles of the game, it's engaging game mechanics (allowed editing/re-submission of your entry until the deadline has been reached) and upload/submission guidelines.
• The general idea of this game is to "...just make music", to also challenge yourself by stepping a bit out of your comfort zone, and take a dip at realms you've never worked in before. Instrumentals are just as welcome as productions with vocals.
• The Genre and "Premise" of this months challenge can be found in in post #002
• Filename Template (Important): SWC078__ArtistName__TrackName.wav or .mp3
  • example: SWC078__MisterFox__ColorOfTheSky.wav
  • example: SWC078__Mister_Fox__Color_of_the_sky.wav

Read more about this month's competition further down below. And if you got any question, please also reach out on Discord.



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SONGWRITING COMPETITION THREAD INDEX

Post #001 -- Introduction post and index for the various stages of the Songwriting Competition. Will be updated as we progress
Post #002 -- Submission Period: General Information, Source Material, Sponsors
Post #003 -- Cheat Sheet: A couple of examples / audio demos for this month's challenge (limited if genre is "free to select")
Post #027 -- Voting: Summarized entries and start of voting process
Post #048 -- Results: Results of the Songwriting Competition

CURRENT CHALLENGE - GENERAL INFORMATION

Time Frame: Thursday, 01st February 2024 to Saturday, 24th February 2024 (24 days)

Challenge submission will end on 24-FEB-2024, 23:59 UTC+1/CET (Germany) - until further notice.

Want to find out if you're still within the deadline, please either consult the Global Countdown (dedicated page), or the countdown on the landing site. There will also be short reminders on Social Media and on Discord. Does the game time frame feel too long? Why not set a personal shorter one of 5-7 days absolute max to push yourself to focus on the essentials, then use the rest of the time to ask for feedback and possible refinements.



SONGWRITING THEME: "Take a leap" (Picture Theme)
GENRE: free to select



Image Source: Deepak Digwal (via Pexels), released under Creative Commons CC0

Bonus Images (for inspiration): image pack for additional inspiration (standard ZIP file, 610kb, 05 images)



A few word about this month's theme:

Staff (Mister Fox) wrote: We're having a "Picture Theme" this month.

There will be no extensive brief with twists and turns. Please have a look, get inspired by the image(s) and the theme.

Let your mind wander for a bit. Then start writing.


BONUS INFO:
Parallel to the main image for this month's game, there is a ZIP file with additional photos for inspiration.
Additional ideas/phrases/concepts for this months theme were: "make a step", "move forward", "aim high", "big things", "Leap Year"
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Your task for this Songwriting Competition:
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This month, you can create a production in any music genre you feel like.


A short explanation of the concept of this month's game: The general idea is to draw inspiration from the picture(s). However do not solely fixate on that particular photo and it's details alone. Rather focus on the "overarching concept". The picture and possible provided key words can have many different meanings. How you interpret it, is up to you.

You set your own parameters and limitations, e.g. style and genre, melodic questions and counter arguments. As long as you don't exceed 10 minutes of runtime, neither have endless padded out repetition. Please keep us listeners engaged. And as usual - vocals are optional. Don't feel pressured to provide any.


Just make music and have fun!

I'm curious about what you come up with!

Songwriting Rule Summary / Add-On Rules:
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LICENSE SPONSORS (Bonus Prizes):

A huge thank you goes to our very generous License Sponsors for this month's game. Those being (in alphabetical order):

Cherry Audio, Ghostwave Audio, Hollow Sun, Hornet Plugins, IK Multimedia, JRR Sounds, kv331 audio, Luftrum, Musiclab, Rekkerd Sounds, satyatunes - Sound / Graphic Design, and Tone2.


A detailed list of offerings can be found in the following information block.
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Good luck to all participants.
And most importantly, have fun!

AUDIO EXAMPLES:
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Articles and Info Pages:

A great starting point is the "Addendum"/Supplementary thread for the Songwriting Competition
Songwriting Competition - Addendum: Music Maps and BPM Charts

Since the genre this month is "free to select", there are no clear pointers




Music examples (selection for inspiration, 00 videos):

No music examples available this month. But I can always recommend to enter random genre search words either into Youtube, Spotify or whatever music streaming services you prefer using.
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Please also check in with the following threads in the the Gear Talk sub-forum, if you're on the look-out for new tools:
Places to fuel your GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) (the starting point if you're in need of audio tools -- from free to affordable).


if you're new to/need help with songwriting - please check out the following tools:

More tools of the trade

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UPDATED: 30-JAN-2024 09:50 UTC+1, updated 00-FEB-2024 00:00 UTC+1

Hi guys, as soon as I saw the picture it reminded me when you are running under heavy rain and jumping puddles so I decided to do some kinda acustic jazz on a fast tempo (130 bpm).

So the idea was to give a sense of urgency like when u are under the rain and u are running to your car but also like the title says like dancing in the rain.

the sense of urgency could be related also to the "take a leap" concept, when instead of keep waiting and thinking we just have to take a leap and make a jump into the unknow.

I used the free mt-powerdrumkit for the drums than FL studio FLEX for all the instruments (bass guitar, grand piano, electric piano, organ, sustain trumpets, staccato trumpets, accordion, staccato brass, staccato clarinet, staccato flute, sustain strings).

for mixing I'm lately going basically only with analog obsession plugins (at least on compressors) they just sound great, look and feel great and they are also very CPU friendly, it's crazy they are free (and I have spent thousands on plugins in these years).

especially I love SPECOMP great on drums but also instruments and busses, OSS great for instruments and COMPER very clean precise and good on anything but I love to use it on the mix buss with the first compressor on opto mode and second one on vca mod (like the shadow hills but this one imo sounds better and u have precise control on attack and release)
Also I reccomend SST imo one of the best colour EQ out there, it's the classiq SSL eq but it just sound great (I have SSL channel strip 2 and analog obsession one sounds better - I mean curves are more musical and nailed ).

For precision EQ to me DMG AUDIO EQUILIBRIUM is the king check out also DMG TRACKMETER, best metering plugin ever.

Mister Fox can I do a question? why there has to be this rule of the -14 lufs? it's just a competition, every time I have to make 2 versions, one for the official competition and one for my soundcloud upload and for listening to it on the car, it's so annoying, also because I can't make the -14 lufs version private cuz if private I can't share it here on the forum, so i have to make public the same track 2 times.

Pls can we change this? you can just turn down the volume

Anyway guys, I hope you enjoy the track

crispy wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 02, 2024 14:20 CET

Mister Fox can I do a question? why there has to be this rule of the -14 lufs?

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Pls can we change this? you can just turn down the volume

I've answered this in more detail on Discord (and I will continue the conversation there!).
The TL;DR is basically: "not going to happen (sorry)".

There is a certain method behind "the madness" (linked to the still ongoing "Loudness War" going against modern day delivery standards and format limitations). Of course it is always your prerogative to not adhere to the given rules and guidelines. At the trade-off of loosing bonus points on the final score sheet at the end of each game. This is why the Bonus Point mechanic exists - to learn and grow, at your own pace.




To give you some feedback for your entry (and breaking the ice):

I like the concept of this Jazzy/Samba type production, however... I find the initial jump from rain to song a bit too jarring.

The used compression also results in a strong unwanted "pumping effect" in this case. Another thing that stands out, the song is quite mid-range heavy. And as with many productions throughout recent Songwriting Competitions, the drums feel like as if they are in a different room compared to the rest of the instrumentation. Same goes for the brass instruments. Maybe address this by using a unified "room" (I'd use a more warm one - and then depending on the send FX amount, the instrument is further in front, or further in the back).

Else, this song has indeed a sense of urgency to "leap away". Interesting interpretation. It could can also easily work for a fifth generation era type video game.

Keep going! You still got over 20 days to fine-tune things.

Uh...as u can see from the video, the drum bus compressor hits 2db gain reduction on the kick and 4db gain reduction on the snare while the mixbus compressor is basically not working when they are playing only the drums and there are no other compressors on drum bus and mixbus so uh...I really don't know how u can hear an "unwanted pumping effect", cuz clearly there is only some very subtle compression to tame the transients...???

Then, as u can see from the FFT analyzer the low end is the most prominent in the frequency spectrum and the whole spectrum follows basically the pink noise pattern like every good mixed track should do so even here uh... I don't know how can u say the track is "mid-range focused"...??? of course the mids are right in front of the mix if that's what u mean but that is like... what it should be???

As for the reverb thing I don't know either really understand what u mean, drums have very subtle reverb like usually everyone does, main instruments have some reverb and brass and trumpets and violins like have more cuz they are more far back in the mix...so I really don't get what u mean by "the drums feel in another room" dude

And regarding the lufs thing my argument was that since this is not some real work for some client that specifically request that maximum loudness it doesn't make any sense since I for example mix my tracks usually at -20 but I need them to be at least -10 to enjoy tham at maximum volume in the car, but that is it, it's just a volume thing, the track is the same and dynamics are the same.
Also I don't really understand what's ur argument here since every platform u mentioned in the linked forum page automatically lower the uploaded tracks to their standards so no one really cares about that and also I've done many music competions and no one cared about that too even in competitions with big brands...like...no one... so...uh...whatever...

Okay, first and foremost... no need to be at each other's throats. We're all here to learn from each other, and improve on our skill sets.

Your video examples, albeit fine, do sadly not cover the topics that I brought up. Let me please try to explain a bit better what I've meant, and back that up with examples of possible tools/settings to try.


Topic: pumping

It is a perceived effect. You start with a sampled rain, and then there is this sudden jump in volume with the piano, that also feels heavily processed on top of that (I am not familiar with the FL Studio instruments, so I can only go by "what I hear"). Then the drums set in, and due to their core sound (they are already fairly processed to begin with), this gives the impression of things being pushed too hard - or "pumping" rather.

I don't know how to address this, other than maybe a transition effect, or maybe less compression on the piano (at least in the beginning, of that is possible). But this was my initial impression. There is also no reference point in terms of beat / rhythm in the beginning. And this in turn throws you off.



Topic: "too mid-range focused"

You can show me the most perfect frequency plot / curve on any FFT analyzer, and yet my ears still tell me that certain frequencies stick out and make this mix sound "honky"/"nasal". Things that can easily be fixed by tweaking some frequencies. A very quick and dirty example that you could try, is with any standard full parametric (node) EQ and the following settings:

Band A (Bell/Peak): 636 Hz (too much in the 630 Hz to 670 Hz range can often quickly result in a "honky mids" feeling), default Q (bandwidth), -2,2 dB
Band B (Bell/Peak): 1,86 kHz (I went by gut feeling here), narrow Q (I used a bandwidth of 4 from-0,5-to-10), -2,7dB (this is a "resonant frequency" that stood out to me)
Band C (Bell/Peak): 5,65 kHz (this is the "upper mid" range, where the snare hits and hi-hats are quite aggressive), default Q, -1,6dB
Band D (High Shelf): 3,5kHz, wide Q, +2,5dB (I would actually use a parallel EQ for this, as it would work more subtle for "lifting things", a "series EQ" is more aggressive/noticeable)

Try it, bypass the EQ ever so often, then you clearly hear what I mean by the "mid-range heavy" focus. With reducing these frequencies on the sum (full mix), I created a (to me) more enjoyable listening experience. My assumption is, that this build up mostly comes from the drums, and the brass sections, also the piano (playing lower notes). In fact, while experimenting, I even used SlickEQ GE to "tilt" the frequencies just a tad (center point 640Hz, +0,25dB), and also narrowed the stereo field with bx_control (Mono Maker up to 160Hz, Stereo Width reduced to 85%).

However - this is not a manual (as in: you have to do this) - it is just what I would do to elevate your mix even further.



Topic: mismatching rooms (reverb)

I had to download MT Powerdrumkit 2 to understand what is actually happening under the hood (I don't know every tool out there). The reason why I brought up "your instruments feel like being in different rooms", is because "ready to go" drum kits like EZ Drummer and co, usually come with a certain room sound "printed" - and you have barely any, if no control over that. This is also the case for MT Powerdrumkit. There is no room mics, the "room impression" actually comes from the snare, which features a very gated reverb (no close microphone drum kit setup sounds like that!).

And while this is a common trick during mixing (e.g. give the snare an additional plate reverb to add to the "stadium rock" type sound, make the kit larger than life), in this case it's actually not good (in my humble opinion and all that). The reverb feels artificial, too "mid range heavy". It clashes with the rest of your used instruments. In fact, the later section of your song feels like you're using multiple different "rooms" (reverbs) to set your instruments apart. The reverbs are also very bright. This doesn't give the listener a sense of cohesion.

This is where I would make adjustments:

First, I'd address the drum kit. Make the kick a bit less "clicky" and more "mellow" by looking at the frequencies 50Hz (bell, default Q, dropping by about -2dB to reduce the "boominess"), then 325Hz to bring out the "body" of the kick (bell, default Q, +4dB to even +6dB is a good start), and finally around 5,4kHz to reduce the "click" (bell, default Q, I tried reducing by -2,5dB).

To tame the "predetermined room" that the drum kit sits in, I would then use a transient designer on the snare drum. I actually tried various gates first (including Kilohearts Gate and Slate Virtual Mix Rack with "Gate:Drums". which also has a "DeBleed" function). However, I got the sound that I wanted with a simple transient designer. In my case, I used old Sleepy Time Records Transient, default timing, reduced the attack by -10% (no modifier) and the Sustain by -50% (with the x2 modifier on). Suddenly way less "printed room", therefore giving me way more control over your overall room placement with dedicated reverbs! The rest is down to proper kit piece levels, EQ and compression.

Speaking of:

I would pick two "rooms" at maximum. One "global" one (moderately big and warm), and one "medium" one for various more "subtle placements". You can even have an additional "long one" just for the snare again... but the focus should be "warm", not "bright". Maybe even look at the "Abbey Road Reverb Trick" (if you don't know that one, basically: the signal is being filtered with a Low Cut at 500Hz and High Cut at 10kHz, sometimes even with a bell-EQ dip at 1,5kHz before hitting the reverb, which was also "dulled"/high frequency cut to taste - this reduced excessive frequency build-up and worked better in a mix). Then place your instruments as you seem fit (the more reverb, the further in the back things feel, of course).

The idea here is "one coherent room". Like with a Salsa / Big-Band.



And finally - the topic: Loudness

I am absolutely not arguing here. I wrote pages upon pages on various communities, white papers, I regularly talk about this on the Discord servers I'm on. The platforms I mentioned do indeed lower the loudness, but they also don't remodel the lost transients from over-processing.

Looking at your mix:
I could only download the MP3. Your named the file -14LUFS, but analysis showed that it's actually -15,9LUFS ILk and the maximum peak does not exceed -6,4dBTP. So I don't know what happened here... either SoundCloud "messed" with the file even further, or you uploaded it this way. Maybe double check that.

If I assume that the original max peak was -1dBTP, then the original LUFS was something around -10,4 LUFS ILk, and things have been pulled down to -15,9 LUFS ILk. Due to the nature of the processing (limiting), this removed a possible 5dB to 6dB of healthy transients - making things sound less dynamic and actually more quiet (once "just pulled down").

There is really no argument around that - the following might be an old video, but it brings up the problem of the topic "just master loud" quite nicely.

Youtube: Music Streaming Services: Bring Peace to the Loudness War by Matt Mayfield Music (once again), from 2017.

I do not give anything about the so called "debunking videos"/"I know better than thou" comments from whatever direction, and that "the ideal loudness one should master at is -8 LUFS - even <insert high class audio engineer> does that!". This is so untrue, it's not even funny! And this stance goes against all releases prior to the year 2004 (where the insanity to "push for loud" really kicked off without any sense of limits). This also goes against format limits (especially tape and vinyl, even MP3/OGG/M4A has limits! Especially max peak - peak reconstruction during decoding can result in drastic ISP clipping incidents). In fact, more and more platforms now straight up reject mixes that go "over" certain given parameter limits. (especially Dolby Atmos mixes, which is currently -18 LUFS ILk absolute max, and the majority of streaming platforms really pushes Dolby Atmos as of late).

Fact is: transients = more impact, less squashing = less ear fatigue, better listening experience.
(some prime examples are: Metallica - Death Magnetic initial CD release versus Guitar Hero DLC - which is over 7dB more quiet, or Carpenter Brut - Turbo Killer global release vs official music video, which is 4dB more quiet!)

Fact is also: the Mix(ing) Challenge has loudness limits for various games. In case of the Songwriting Competition, that merely only results in a loss of bonus points and not in a "tagged disqualified" scenario. It is your prerogative which route you decide to go.

Mixes can still be -14 LUFS and both "loud" and "punchy as all hell" - the early CD era (1990s) and the revival of vinyl proves that.
Please understand, I will stand my ground on this.



I hope this extensive bit of feedback helps, and you might be able to address the one or another thing with your mix by the end of the game.

Have fun!



And I really hope to hear more entries from other participants as well!

man I really appreciate the time u put to text the long reply but I really struggle to follow u, for example u told me the track was weak in the bass area and now u tell me to try to drop the 50Hz area of the kick

for the intro part ok I can understand that the transition from only the rain sample and the piano can be perceived as a bit too sudden but it's just an arrangement taste thing, on the mixing side there is really no heavy processing, just the rain sample volume is lower than the piano volume.

for the metering the highest lufs are at -14 (the track part with the loudest short term lufs like at 03:12).
and I have not turned down anything, it's very simple, I just cut the transients with a clipper (I learned this tecnique from luca pretolesi).
if u look at the dynamics range on ADPTR METRIC AB the track stays on 9/10 "competitive" a very standard range for this genre - if I didn't cutted the transients with the clipper the transients sounded too dynamic in a bad way.

than for example u tell me u feel the track is heavily processed but indeed it's really the opposite man.
every instrument has a very subtle compression and NO EQ AT ALL cuz I felt no need to apply any lol - besides some hi-pass filter to cut the low end and a pro-q 3 on the organ where I used dynamic eq to tame some ringing frequencies.

The piano that u feel heavily processed, for example, has only a 2-3 gain reduction of compression, an hi-pass filter at 40 hz just to cut the very low end and another compressor that compress only the highest notes at about half db of gain reduction.
so very very little processing as you can tell.

on the mix bus there is only the bus compressor u can see in the video, an eq that just cuts the low end at about 100hz on the sides only and 2 clippers, one - the bx clipper - used as a saturator to saturate a bit the sides and the second - free clip 2 - more technical to cut the tip of the transients - basically only the drums transients.
and that's it.
So really this is one of the least processed tracks I ever made to be honest lol

Honestly I calibrate my own headphones and on headphones, studio monitors and car the track sounds good to me, so Idk if u like I can send you the stems or the FL project and u can show me your edited version, would be cool to compare the 2 versions!
I really don't care about winning I'm here just to have fun and maybe learn something.

I think I slowly but surely understand where there is a barrier in terms of understanding.

Please take a some time for the following, as I did invest a couple hours more into this to explain as to "what is going on". It basically boils down to three main things: 1) base sound selection, 2) not understanding audio terminology and 3) not understanding "loudness measurement" (how LUFS works).

Unfortunately, I will not have the time to look at your multi-tracks. I don't have much time on my hand as-is. However, "learning" is a huge aspect that I want to provide / convey on this community. To follow along, please download the following file:

SWC078 - Entry by crispy (original, quick-fixed, analyzed) -- regular ZIP, 320,03 MB

This package features the actual MP3 download from Soundloud, the WAV that Wavelab extracted from the MP3, and a "quick fix" that I talked about in my previous post. As bonus: I also loudness normalized both WAV files to the maximum loudness of -14 LUFS ILk, so that you can get an idea for "loudest allowed perceived signal strength", but have a "mix balance comparison". I also provided extensive screenshots of settings, frequency plots and loudness comparisons so that you can understand what I did (and recreate the same settings).



Let's get the main topics sorted out:

I did say no such thing as "the track was weak in the bass area".

You must have misunderstood me. I did say that there are issues in the low mids in the full mix, making the mix sound "honky". The 50 Hz range I brought up for the kick drum actually removes excessive rumble for the whole drum kit. This is however an "in the mix" issue, nothing that you can handle easily with the full mix. (see further down below)



Topic: LUFS at -14

I had to read this section multiple times. I now understand where you come from.

You assume that the maximum allowed loudness in LUFS is -14 LUFS SLk... as in "Short Term Loudness". However, the value you should look at, is -14 LUFS ILk (Integrated Loudness) -- aka: loudness for the whole program stream (the song from start to finish). I marked these values in red on the screenshots (most notably "Loudness Comparison MP3--WAV-converted--Quick-Fix.png")



Info: this image is being auto deleted after 2 months.

To avoid confusion: very simplified -- LUFS = LKFS. Same core measurement mechanic, just a different label
EBU R128 uses LUFS, while ITU-R BS.1770-x uses LKFS as label for the loudness measurement readouts.



Statement: "...cut the transients with a clipper..."

I do not know of these "techniques" by the person you've mentioned (I barely have enough spare time as-is). However, here might be your next problem that you should look at... cutting away the transients results in a more muted, and in cases even more harsh sound of instruments (or even the whole mix - depending on "how far" you went).

Yes, you might keep "rogue transients" in check, but transients are what makes an instrument (or full mix) more alive. Just look at your file's waveform compared to mine. My edit could "recreate" some more transients - but the removal of transients with a clipper were irreparable.



Statement: "Instruments are barely processed", "no EQ at all cuz I felt no need to apply any"

Good and fine, but after some digging (especially on the FL Studio FLEX Pianos and MT Powerdrumkit), I noticed that your instruments are the main culprit of the "over-processed" sound I brought up.

I already talked at excess about the drum kit. And the fact that it comes with a room "printed", which you then emphasized even more with the excessive bright reverb of your other instruments. In my opinion, this kit needs heavy treatment with both EQ and transient designers to make it more usable than for "plug-and-play Heavy Metal" songs. You use a Power Metal drum kit in the context of a Salsa/Jazz/Funk song. The snare is the most prominent offender, which is why I talked about using a transient designer (to reduce the excessive ringing and setting a baseline for a general "room sound").

In fact, in my short spare-time, I experimented with the VSTi a bit more. And with the right EQ (mostly reducing certain frequencies), it can work way, way more for Pop / Jazz. (the snare alone has really excessive high mid frequencies, which again might work for Power Metal, but not in the context of your song -- and my EQ settings for the kick drum in the last post, "rounds out" the overall tone as well, getting away from the "more clicky sound")

Then the next part are the pianos... even if you might not consider this to be the case, but the sounds you've used are really already "heavily processed" to begin with. I spent over 1 hour just listening to various audio demos. And that "effect" is even more prominent if you're basically having note velocity at maximum. And even if you play dynamic (with a keyboard), certain Acoustic and E-Pianos from FL Studio FLEX have been processed in such a way, that they are upfront (on purpose... "plug and play" sounds and all), covering way too much mid range. You need to find a balance between your instruments - which are in the front, which are in the background. However overall, both your E-Piano and Acoustic Piano could have a reduction of around 670Hz (or reducing resonance an octave lower at 335Hz) and/or 1300Hz (where things start to sound "tinny" and ringing) -- again, depending on the balance to each other. This is where both your ears and gut instinct come into play.

Also considering the "baseline" (core sound) if your used instruments, adding additional compression (even if only slightly, to bring up the sustain of a signal) is emphasizing that effect even more. Having a too bright reverb on top of that, doesn't result in a cohesive feeling - you basically only stacked instruments like with a desktop synthesizer, not "blended"/complimented them.

So long story short... you should consider "adding EQ" after all, not just a high pass filter on each instrument, and selective dynamic EQ.

I can highly recommend taking a look at this Interactive Frequency Chart from Independent Recording Network - which is really helpful for learning purposes. And it uses common terminology.



I will stop at this point - since I'm really short on time otherwise. This is a lot of material to work through, plenty of things to learn.

Have fun!




Still, kindly check your Private Messages and send me a response, please. (related to SWC077)
Thank you.

A friendly reminder:
Including today, 14 days left to submit your production.

So far, we have 1 entry and quite the extensive feedback.



If you want to access the extended game mechanics of the Songwriting Competition (asking for feedback during production), please try to release your first edits within the next 7 days to have enough time to get possible feedback (if needed/wanted) and continue to work on your song.

To those sitting on the fence - please don't feel scared off and think "the bar is set too high, I will never make it" - set yourself a shorter private deadline. Just make music, submit your entry, join the conversation. See where this goes.

By joining, you're already a winner. The rest is bonus.