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Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

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White Punk OD
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 23:58 CEST

Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#101

Post by White Punk OD »

Thanks, I see, did not take into account the extra preparation help and that it happened often.
I was rather thinking of song providers that deliver quite perfect mix packages.

The other idea is based on the observation that there is not really a reliable time slot for commenting, as sometimes the results come fast, and the interest in the thread is gone, or the next competition already starts.

White Punk OD
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 23:58 CEST

Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#102

Post by White Punk OD »

What about a "public reception" feature?

There might be two ways with different amount of work behind.

a) Many forum softwares have a "LIKE" feature with the notorious like count.
Then, mixes can receive likes, and the popularity of a particular mix is sure something to learn from.
Though there are always possibilities of misusing a feature, like "clan action" akin to the European Song Contest, where public votings are more based on national friendship and political situation than art. But there is also natural behavior that inclines to certain kinship in styles and expression.

b) There is probably a voting feature, but it might be cumbersome to set it up, unless one has an automated script that throws every contributor of a download link into the voting candidate repository, by user name, and this is by MC thread.
Voting results on the first page of a MC would look very good though.
The question is, who should be entitled to vote, is it any registered forum user, or is it only those who contributed a mix themselves.

Public opinion is half the business. The internet renews the struggle between demand-driven and supply-driven economies, in other words, the big music companies and their A&R's used to run a market that was quite supply-driven, while now there are myriads of newcomers on social networks that work with "influencers" i.e. very distributed leadership in public opinion, so this is a strengthening structure of demand.

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Mister Fox
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Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#103

Post by Mister Fox »

Both questions/suggestions can be answered with:
Not going to happen.

  1. I'd like to keep the forum as clean and as streamlined as possible.
  2. "Popular Voting" backfired in the early days of the Mix(ing) Challenge game, resulting in severe backlash and even threats via PM. Due to this, the "Client Evaluation" system was implemented
  3. "Popular Votes" opens doors for abuse. The more "friends/followers" you have that can upvote for an entry, the more you can shift the results. Which in turn is unfair to others that do not have that amount of following
  4. voting through the forum in form of a poll is possible, but I can not limit this to participants. At least not without very complicated user account changes that have to be adjusted per month (special rules). Which in turn means extra work for me or any future moderators once more. Plus - polls are limited to 10 points max. Have more participants, and this system is falling apart. Also - the forum poll list would be endlessly long if the engine would be opened up (think 50 entries!)
  5. A "hidden vote" or a "voting engine" (other than what the Songwriting Competition is utilizing) would mean: another engine to install, maintenance, asking for permission to use the the contact information, etc. Then there is absolutely no way for me to link forum users to such an external engine. Not without database sharing (which results in more work, and even more GDPR handling).

I'm sorry to be the constant nay-sayer with this. I could add things like visual banners, country flags, allow animations (avatar, signature, etc), individual post upvoting (which I don't see a need for). But this can get annoying really, really quick. This community was created to keep things simple, fast loading and not visually overloaded.

I also have limitations of what this forum can offer. Even paid forum engines are limited like that. Plus - always think of the needed maintenance, the way to implement things, making people aware of the changes, testing periods after the adaption, etc.



I understand that you want more interaction. And I appreciate the ideas with how we could get there. But the systems are already in place and work fine, considering the limitations of the used backbone (this forum). Also - nobody said that you're not allowed to give feedback to each other after a certain Mix Round or a game has ended. If people don't interact more, I can't force them.

People look for such places like the Mix Challenge audio community (demand), but I'd say the Mix Challenge already offers enough (supply).



The main problem I struggle with, is the actual demand of new content for others to work with, and the supply is super low considering what each Song Provider is actually getting in return, with the only investment being time.

So the best help right now, is for people to reach out with productions for a possible future mixing challenge, and keep up the communication via mail. No more content means no more games. And that in turn would mean the end of the Mix Challenge.

White Punk OD
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 23:58 CEST

Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#104

Post by White Punk OD »

Thanks Mr.Fox, für the detailed answer!

Once I looked into the technical side of a forum system, it was a spaghetti of templates, script snippets, conditional switch boards to print some element or not, that were nested in chaotic ways, and a database that did not even hold every information but was competed by hardcoded metadata in the scripts. And for what the whole thing was capable at all, it was horribly overcoded and inefficient. It was an early system but I'm not estimating too much improvement here. Just the databases have become bigger and more reliable, more programming languages in use, and the forum features more streamlined and evolved by needs.
So I decided to not invest my time into such.
But I see how much time it consumes when we want a really creative change. We end up in a highlevel CMS that has a commercial price.

I see these as issues of scalability. From the viewpoint of the song providers, sure THEY will want popularity for their songs, and a lot of buzz and noise and emotion is the core of getting that done. So they must do this elsewhere.
Misuse of "social" features is definitely a problem that costs time and energy, and has risks.
So I gladly have to leave it to your experience in this sector. Just thinking loud, because times are always changing.

White Punk OD
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 23:58 CEST

Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#105

Post by White Punk OD »

I'm wondering why so many participants seem not able to study and respect the rules.
They just mix and post along.

However, for those who want to be serious, we have a new example about how to not pre-master, in 060.
Mr. Fox pointed out the rule violation, but the audible mistake is that we have glitches, where some bass or kick hit makes the compressor or limiter cough, and it sounds more like a cassette with a drop-out in the magnetic tape.

So, it's really not wise to do this, unless one is a true master in all these disciplines, and could do business right away, and forget all these online games.
Being humble and patient, and then leave to the mastering engineer what is his task, should be rule #1 to success.

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Henrik Hjortnaes
Posts: 97
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Location: Dynaudio City, Skanderborg

Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#106

Post by Henrik Hjortnaes »

White Punk OD wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 14:36 CET
I'm wondering why so many participants seem not able to study and respect the rules.
They just mix and post along.
It's a mirror of current society. Too long, didn't read. Tap, swipe, more swipe. Zap-zap. Hollow out approach, cut to the chase, no patience. Nothing more Fox can do, really.

White Punk OD
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 23:58 CEST

Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#107

Post by White Punk OD »

Lot of diversity here. I hope more guys will get things right in the future.

Current episode is interesting again, I regret I have not enough ressources and stamina this time.
Many mixes sound like the Warszaw Philharmonic is attempting Soulfunk but still sound Haydn with a broken leg, LOL you really have to shape that thing.
A few are really good, and make me like the song, unbelievable what they can make from the same recording and programming.
So that would be something to study.
Compression is a factor here.
One mix sounds like Frank Farian, with a narrow spectrum like Vinyl in a 70ies Disco Club, but at the same time a lot fresher than many others, and really addictive. In terms of today it might be a bit overcompressed, but it works, it is tight, energetic, and hides everything that is boring, and puts the hot element of the song line to the front.
One mix from a neighbor country, obviously has the culture. Sounds just normal, like a commercial release that I would expect. To learn from, too.

What I love in many episodes, is how cultures show up. India, Japan, Russia, Brazil region, of course Germany, some of the guys do something quite typical, and I think they do it well. The clients just need to decide, where they want to go. Versatile enough, everyone, but at certain moments I remember some other song with similar features, and somewhere else that would sound a lot different.

How to deal with the particular music and performance, aside from pure technical stuff, is probably instinct and musicality.
Still - can it be taught, can it be explained? This would be the most valuable topic, because when a mix makes the most difference in any episode, almost every time it is this factor. The engineer did also sort out the musical elements, that perhaps were lacking in clarity and intensity.

Snarowitz
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 21:13 CEST

Winners announced?

#108

Post by Snarowitz »

I would like the song provider to post file links on announcement so that we don't have to go back through 13 pages of comments to find link for "best" mixes.

What do you think?

White Punk OD
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 23:58 CEST

Re: Winners announced?

#109

Post by White Punk OD »

Yes, technically this is a familiar idea to me.
In many forums, a table of contents or index, is a heavily demanded thing.
Some boards can manage to edit the first posting in the thread, every time something important was posted.
Typical, a list of winners in a TV contest show, with photos, updated weekly.
But often, the owner of the thread has not enough time, and someone else cannot (except a moderator).

Here for us, the song provider would have to maintain his own link list, but some will just download the mixes.

If there was a software feature, like a special tag (like those for youtube), and one for WAV and one for MP3.
And the forum database would collect every and each entry of that type, and dynamically insert all these under a \[TOC\] tag in the first posting.
Not aware if such a thing exists.

Mr. Fox is working so much already, to keep the mix challenge running, and lately did a forum update anyway, so I wouldn't really dare to ask him.
:hmmm:

In theory, anyone could maintain a list, and post it in a "directory" thread. Means one posting by episode, holding all links and names.

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Mister Fox
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Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#110

Post by Mister Fox »

Please excuse the confusion, but I've just merged the threads into the "Gossip" Thread (which I also currently use for feedback).


I understand you request, but I do not have the resources to make that possible. Neither do I have programming skills to probably "automate this" (which would also mean - modding phpBB - and I rather stick to Extensions only). I'd need to add another extension to implement a tagging system. Then that tagging system needs to be limited to only certain people, which in turn makes the forum gimmicky, etc.

What could be done, and be requested from the Song Provider, is at least "quote" the post in question - and even if it's only one line. Basically the same way I'm doing this (manually if I may add) for each Songwriting Competition with the collection of entries. But this is dependent on the song provider, and how detailed he/she would be with listing. Or, as already hinted at, a moderator (which is a plate that is currently not filled). Plus, communicating that to "do so as well", will also be added on top of the communication between the staff (currently me) and the Song Provider in terms of "what to do".

I apologize for the inconvenience.


The forum will see a maintenance update still. But this won#t cover your feature request but rather general maintenance.

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