Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

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White Punk OD
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

Post by White Punk OD » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:26 pm

Thanks, I see, did not take into account the extra preparation help and that it happened often.
I was rather thinking of song providers that deliver quite perfect mix packages.

The other idea is based on the observation that there is not really a reliable time slot for commenting, as sometimes the results come fast, and the interest in the thread is gone, or the next competition already starts.

White Punk OD
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

Post by White Punk OD » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:52 pm

What about a "public reception" feature?

There might be two ways with different amount of work behind.

a) Many forum softwares have a "LIKE" feature with the notorious like count.
Then, mixes can receive likes, and the popularity of a particular mix is sure something to learn from.
Though there are always possibilities of misusing a feature, like "clan action" akin to the European Song Contest, where public votings are more based on national friendship and political situation than art. But there is also natural behavior that inclines to certain kinship in styles and expression.

b) There is probably a voting feature, but it might be cumbersome to set it up, unless one has an automated script that throws every contributor of a download link into the voting candidate repository, by user name, and this is by MC thread.
Voting results on the first page of a MC would look very good though.
The question is, who should be entitled to vote, is it any registered forum user, or is it only those who contributed a mix themselves.

Public opinion is half the business. The internet renews the struggle between demand-driven and supply-driven economies, in other words, the big music companies and their A&R's used to run a market that was quite supply-driven, while now there are myriads of newcomers on social networks that work with "influencers" i.e. very distributed leadership in public opinion, so this is a strengthening structure of demand.

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Mister Fox
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

Post by Mister Fox » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:05 am

Both questions/suggestions can be answered with:
Not going to happen.

  1. I'd like to keep the forum as clean and as streamlined as possible.
  2. "Popular Voting" backfired in the early days of the Mix(ing) Challenge game, resulting in severe backlash and even threats via PM. Due to this, the "Client Evaluation" system was implemented
  3. "Popular Votes" opens doors for abuse. The more "friends/followers" you have that can upvote for an entry, the more you can shift the results. Which in turn is unfair to others that do not have that amount of following
  4. voting through the forum in form of a poll is possible, but I can not limit this to participants. At least not without very complicated user account changes that have to be adjusted per month (special rules). Which in turn means extra work for me or any future moderators once more. Plus - polls are limited to 10 points max. Have more participants, and this system is falling apart. Also - the forum poll list would be endlessly long if the engine would be opened up (think 50 entries!)
  5. A "hidden vote" or a "voting engine" (other than what the Songwriting Competition is utilizing) would mean: another engine to install, maintenance, asking for permission to use the the contact information, etc. Then there is absolutely no way for me to link forum users to such an external engine. Not without database sharing (which results in more work, and even more GDPR handling).

I'm sorry to be the constant nay-sayer with this. I could add things like visual banners, country flags, allow animations (avatar, signature, etc), individual post upvoting (which I don't see a need for). But this can get annoying really, really quick. This community was created to keep things simple, fast loading and not visually overloaded.

I also have limitations of what this forum can offer. Even paid forum engines are limited like that. Plus - always think of the needed maintenance, the way to implement things, making people aware of the changes, testing periods after the adaption, etc.

I understand that you want more interaction. And I appreciate the ideas with how we could get there. But the systems are already in place and work fine, considering the limitations of the used backbone (this forum). Also - nobody said that you're not allowed to give feedback to each other after a certain Mix Round or a game has ended. If people don't interact more, I can't force them.

People look for such places like the Mix Challenge audio community (demand), but I'd say the Mix Challenge already offers enough (supply).

The main problem I struggle with, is the actual demand of new content for others to work with, and the supply is super low considering what each Song Provider is actually getting in return, with the only investment being time.

So the best help right now, is for people to reach out with productions for a possible future mixing challenge, and keep up the communication via mail. No more content means no more games. And that in turn would mean the end of the Mix Challenge.

White Punk OD
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

Post by White Punk OD » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:31 pm

Thanks Mr.Fox, für the detailed answer!

Once I looked into the technical side of a forum system, it was a spaghetti of templates, script snippets, conditional switch boards to print some element or not, that were nested in chaotic ways, and a database that did not even hold every information but was competed by hardcoded metadata in the scripts. And for what the whole thing was capable at all, it was horribly overcoded and inefficient. It was an early system but I'm not estimating too much improvement here. Just the databases have become bigger and more reliable, more programming languages in use, and the forum features more streamlined and evolved by needs.
So I decided to not invest my time into such.
But I see how much time it consumes when we want a really creative change. We end up in a highlevel CMS that has a commercial price.

I see these as issues of scalability. From the viewpoint of the song providers, sure THEY will want popularity for their songs, and a lot of buzz and noise and emotion is the core of getting that done. So they must do this elsewhere.
Misuse of "social" features is definitely a problem that costs time and energy, and has risks.
So I gladly have to leave it to your experience in this sector. Just thinking loud, because times are always changing.

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