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Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

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Mister Fox
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#121

Post by Mister Fox »

Interesting to read... and a bit confusing to be honest.

Now I'm wondering if all those that submitted tracks through SoundCloud on the SWC actually had a paid account to offer direct downloads. I definitely know that this is also a mandatory rule for other games (again: KVR Audio comes to mind). :hmmm:


Thank you for the information, Henrik. This will make things definitely more simple for the Songwriting Competition. If the participants want to sign up to a SoundCloud account that is. Nothing will change for the Mix Challenge though - also considering that MP3s are not a necessity anymore (as of MC061).

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Henrik Hjortnaes
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#122

Post by Henrik Hjortnaes »

I edited my previous post to include a link for more information from Soundcloud (this link).

White Punk OD
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#123

Post by White Punk OD »

I love the Jazz Big Band, let's see what mixes come up.
For some different referencing, I think the following is quite a good recording, as a high school:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI_-QSfy748 manteca; anvil...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0xRQb_K1hE watch out little yuka
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP-p_k4gP5E concert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iebK-fFOPDQ more..
There is massive natural reverb, but great dynamics, no compression artifacts, warm sounding bass, good brightness in the chorus parts etc..
(Comment section is another reason to post it. Listeners are happy :) )

The first good mix came in already, but I still hear a compressor. :uhuhuh:

White Punk OD
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#124

Post by White Punk OD »

Now, after a number of partially great attempts, happily a mix shows up where the kick cuts through, and does not sound like Pop or Rock, and the whole thing sounds fully professional and pure. :tu:

Caveat, basses here and there and even kicks have a tendency to get boomy.
The Jazz mixes need not be loud at all, better leave all dynamics intact. It's not the loud ones I prefer.
If required, softly automate some phrases on the single tracks.
Mastering is especially competent to get this type of music loud enough, and will do great.
2 cents, in case..

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Mister Fox
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#125

Post by Mister Fox »

The following is a re-post from Mix Challenge #062.
viewtopic.php?p=7083#p7083

To clean up the game thread, but to keep up the conversation, I'm posting the same answer in here:


Clueless wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 02:32 CET
So, I've probably said enough already, but
Should, I, in future just go for a mix that pleases me, reducing or muting stems that I don't feel add to the mix I want to achieve?
I'm somewhat lost, I read the rules and try to adhere, should i, in future, if I participate submit my own take of what I think works.?
As there are many paths that can be taken in order to make a mix. Big reverb, stripped down bare, more bass, less atmosphere, more ambient, chilled out., the list is endless, almost.
Would love to hear other's opinions expressed here, or should this be taken to another post?

I've asked a lot of questions, I'll leave and hope that others can give me some clarity :)
It is quite simple really - and this is why the "Words by the Song Provider" exist, and why I try to get as many information for the mix packages as possible.

You take and edit the provided multitracks "as is". You are not allowed to omit tracks unless it's... a stereo track where there is no stereo content in it, you've split it into multi-mono and discard one of the channels. Or if there are like 5 microphones used for recording a sound source, and you decide "blending 2 of them is enough to get the same over-the-top sound". Another example would be "clean cutting" a drum set - if you're after that super sterile pop rock drum sound rather than more vintage with various type of mic bleed.

Everything (else) is basically working by your gut instinct. You can either go by the provided "demo mix", which is setting a certain mood, or read up on (hopefully) provided references or hints in which direction this could go, then shape your own sound. As in: big reverb or not, a balance between instruments, blending similar sound sources into one "sound cloud", etc.

Or as I wrote it for every mix(ing) challenge: try to create a mix that complements this production - in your own style.

This is what the Mix(ing) Challenge is trying to teach... the same is happening in the real world. You... have an own style of mixing, your own "sound". A possible client approaches you because of that particular reason. The Mix(ing) Challenge is basically a "Mass Audio Engineer Shootout"

Frequency Painter
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#126

Post by Frequency Painter »

"I'm somewhat lost, I read the rules and try to adhere, should i, in future, if I participate submit my own take of what I think works.?"

That's what I try to do. This is just a good exercise in doing my thing, and then compare it to my peers to see or hear rather where I stand. I know this goes against the grain, but I purposely don't listen to the reference (rough mix or artist's mix), just to see if my taste/sound touches the client or not. If it doesn't it's a valuable lesson and by listening to the mixes that did go through you can try and understand where improvements can be made. On a second note, however, I do read good things about (technically) bad mixes and vice versa sometimes. So, you need to balance it all.

White Punk OD
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#127

Post by White Punk OD »

@Clueless,
my thought is also that you are seeking a bit of leadership, which is probably available only in the paid services where you have one or more established mixing engineers with a known portfolio, and their opinions will be expressed politely but clearly, and they will tell about what they believe is great and what is possibly unfavorable and problematic.
but when we have neither a song/mixtrk provider or composer who is known for selling millions of units, nor a team of engineers who factually proven mixed such hits, it becomes difficult to find a path, though it does not mean there couldn't be some incognito star, or someone can't make it next year, and it does not mean knowledge and skill is smaller, it is just not that clear to know, in a situation when we need guidance to develop our own skills.
we have a good administration, but admin does not make content, but provides a platform for the users to do content, with a high level of self-organization.

Clueless
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#128

Post by Clueless »

@frequency Painter, that's a good idea, I think if I do another then I'll try a different approach, all depends on the source material :)
@Whitepunk OD, yes, self management is probably something I need to consider, as Mister Fox is already working his little cotton's off :D

Mass Audio Engineer Shootout, let the games begin :baytins: ;) :hug:

White Punk OD
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#129

Post by White Punk OD »

LOL there are so many approaches, whatever works.
There are only a few points in DSP, where we cannot gloss over, but must find out what to do, as there might be some comprehensive math behind the issue.
We can adapt to the tool, like a painter has certain brushes to learn, and some of them are coarse. So are some DSP tools and configurations.
Musical outcome might be still good, depends on the genre.
Or we change the configuration, find additional techniques, and work with an improved toolbox. It need not be expensive.

Over a longer time, I built a bunch of "rack" presets, this means 3 to 10 plugins in quite complex wiring, including AirWindows stuff and simple faders, and thus I can replace expensive, complex commercial plugins. I could not make a Gullfoss, but I can make a decent MaxBass. I can make a side-chainer, that works a bit like a Trackspacer. Different variants of multiband transient designers, only made from freeware.
It is good to distinguish the strategies, and foresee the consequences.

ThaSome, are you out there? Plz take it easy.
My humble thought was just that first thing is, you want to get into the ballpark, with setting correct sample rate, avoid clipping and too high levels, avoid overcompression, and let the general spectum behave properly. (e.g. not let subsonics break the woofer; detect a faulty or mistreated plugin that distorts and ruins the air band. Each engineer is happy with a certain proven set of plugins and avoids some others. YMMV as they say.)
Then, feedback will come more intensely, and the finer issues can be worked out. E.g. saturation can spare some amount of compression, and the sound will become fatter.
Switching the processing and rendering to 48000 might actually change the sound slightly. It depends. Some intensity or treble knobs might need another adjustment. It was the case with a couple of plugins that I use. But if it happens so, you might keep us updated, TIA.


Hye Inn Cho does not roll off at the high end, this is not unexpected, from my experience with listening to K-Pop icons like BLACKPINK.
Many good sounding mixes in this batch have have a round roll-off. I think the handling of the bell sounds is a factor here. Some mixes let the harmonic at 17k poke out (with reduced volume), others try to tame it with low-passing and different tools that may create dispersion, smear phase, etc. like those allpass tools. What should not be forgotten is that it results in a certain overall spectral response. From myrads of spectra I have seen, those with edges and steep slopes after, tend to sound less pleasant, or resemble poor mp3 conversion. Do we have a real edge, or do we have a single harmonic poking out in the middle of the roll-off? So, I dont' say this is straightforward. But I believe it is very good to create friendship between ears and eyes. Some engineers say, don't look at the display, use your ears. I fully agree that ears have priority. But the display gives an additional impression about what is going on, and it is helpful to create the connection. It helps with trouble shooting, and it helps as a last check, if we might have forgotten something, stumbling into ear fatigation.
What I do, is load the printed mix in the sound editor, and select parts 1, 2, 3 individually, and do a summing spectral analysis about a whole part. This is much different from the volatile real time spectrum. Both tell somewhat different information.


Stay always critical about opinions, and keep it coming!

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Mister Fox
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Re: Mix Challenge - General Gossip Thread

#130

Post by Mister Fox »

Just for clarification:


Feedback to participants should be given in the corresponding game thread.

Feedback about the game itself, the rules and mechanics, thoughts, fears, etc... goes in here.

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