Of course I want to hear it! You have my permission to post your version.A Future in Noise wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 17:33 CEST@Olli H I deleted the link to my short and edited version of your song. Maybe I need permission first. But if you want to hear it, I can post that link again.
2024-DEC-25 Info: Happy Holidays, everyone! Please stay safe, have a hot beverage of choice and enjoy some quiet moments (may it be alone, or with friends and/or family)
SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC060 August 2022 - Winners announced
Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC060 August 2022 - results in preparation
Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC060 August 2022 - results in preparation
I later realized what you meant with that: my synth sounds like a real oldtime saw-instrument. And you're right. Although I tried to make a pedal steel, I failed, and by accident created sound that's resembles the saw. But I like it. Maybe I should rename my "bad pedal steel" preset to "desent saw".
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC060 August 2022 - results in preparation
The way you play those piano chords sounds very good.A Future in Noise wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 16:52 CESTWhen I played exactly the way you described it, it did not sound wrong. You will here very clear and distinct chords in this short file (4-5 bars I think it is). The three bars I found strange (but not any longer) are muted, and voice is replaced by sax together with piano and electric bass. When I had listened to this a couple of times and went back to your version, I could understand what chords your guitar is playing. But in fact I could not here this before I did this experiment!
In my reaper it says 184 BPM (184/2=92), but I quite often experiment with playback rate so there's a possibility that by accident it was not in exact default position (1.00000).
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- Mister Fox
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC060 August 2022 - results in preparation
First and foremost, please let me once more apologize for the delays. Due to time management and health, things sadly got massively delayed.
As mentioned in post #30, I also wanted to provide some final feedback and cast an additional vote. However, considering that this always results in massive delays on my end, I will probably not comment any further until the next "Video Game Soundtrack" related Songwriting Competition, or unless there is a tie that can't be broken.
On to the feedback before I post the final results
Arelem - Unterwater
I'm focusing on Version 1 of this entry, which is an interesting Trap inspired production. However, I am not really a fan of the vocal mix. I understand the concept of being "Underwater", but I would have maybe went more "dry" on the lead vocals (and only running the effect as a supplement). Not only that, the chorus vocals are drowning in the overall mix.
Speaking of, I understand that this type of music is very bass intensive, and mixing for all types of playback environments is not easy. But in order to also work on small speakers, or finding a better balance, I'd maybe also heavily utilize side-chain processing (kick and bass) to clean up on frequencies. The vocals definitely need to sit a bit more on top (especially the "underwater ones"/chorus). While listening on headphones, it's apparent to me, that this might be a "headphone mix".
A Future In Noise - The Tide (collaboration with alavault)
While I like the overall instrumentation and the 1980s inspired guitars, sadly the drums are getting completely lost on small speakers, and the hats are sticking out too much until the second half of the song kicks in. This is where I'd put the most effort into mixing, as drums are a big element that set the overall tone of a production.
Else, it's very, very upper mid-range heavy, and the constantly switch of the song key (which introduces dissonance in places) throws you for a loop. I also think that the use of 5 reverbs and 6 different delays is a bit excessive, but this is just how I'd work. On headphones with larger drivers, things sound a bit more balanced out, you even hear the drums better (the first half only being a kick, hats and a tambourine). But even then, the drums are a bit subdued while the E-Piano and guitars stick out a tad too much. In fact, on headphones, you can also clearly hear, that the snare has a bit too much low-mids for that particular genre's time frame. It's also more apparent in this case, that certain cymbals are cut off. As somebody experienced with playing drums, this can't be overheard.
Becsei_Gyorgy - Tricky Fountains
Looks like you put your collection of Spitfire Audio samples to the test here. Personally I think the Harpsichord is way too loud for comfort (this is just how Harpsichords are, I'm afraid - they cut through everything), but I like the overall back and forth of "movements". Not a fan of the water sample, yet I get the idea -- if you were to really score for a TV scene and you were asked to replace the Foley work.
Not quite Smetana's "The Moldau", but definitely something interesting that sadly lacks a bit of low-end (small speakers), while on headphones the "ambiences" (room sounds) don't feel like they match between the orchestra sections.
Esteve Corbera - Les Gotesd Aigua
I really like your concept of using water sounds as rhythmic elements, with the main beat giving you the feeling that it's a steady stream of certain droplets, very bold and experimental. The things that sadly kind of destroy the feeling, are the synthetic harps and bells. Especially the intro harp is sticking out too much, and with the used reverb turns easily into an annoying drone. The "bells" could have been more subdued as well. This is more than present especially on small speakers. Not too sure if I'm a fan of certain chords in the background giving you the feel that things run against the grain. But it adds to the overall feeling, and fits the general concept.
It is a bit better on headphones, since you can now hear the strings better, and I do get a certain "Kraftwerk" vibe. But the mix could still be more balanced. One way or the other, looks like the Songwriting Competition really helps you with your production techniques. I can hardly wait what you could produce in January with the "Community Scramble".
GamaGama - Fast Stream Runto River
An attempt to mix Mexican Street Music with Disco, interesting approach to the given "idea". But I see so much room for improvements for the mix. However, reading up on your limitations (time limit, not being used to the available software tools, reviving an old MIDI project), you made the best out of the situation.
If you could go back to the production, the lead trumpet is way too dry, it could either use a supporting delay, or a more suitable reverb. The rest of the brass section definitely works better, but especially on headphones you hear the stark contrast of all instruments (using different reverbs and all). The beat is sadly a bit mush as well. Proper EQ for certain sections would have put a different emphasis on the groove (also maybe making them a bit less "MIDI quantized" like, but then again... the late 19870 Euro-Disco songs were all about that).
Great concept, maybe you can repeat that experiment in the future. Or who knows, maybe you get access a similar setup in the future. If anything, this clearly shows that "limitations are sometimes good for creativity" - but you'll be the judge of that. The mix is a completely different topic then.
KukoBass - Fountain in Slow Motion
Seeing that this month was mainly a "learning experience" with a new DAW and it's tools for you, I think the general idea of the Songwriting Competition (just make music, experiment) came across perfectly. Still, the production feels a bit barren.
Certain instruments, like the background strings get a bit lost in the mix, the drum loop is the driving element this time around, and everything feels a bit... "dry" so to speak. If anything, I'd add some more modulation effects. Delay to extend audio gaps, a bit more processing on the main piano (due to the dynamic nature of the piano, it stands out too much - compression does wonders on "Alicia's Keys", then setting the right volume is easier), I would have loved to listen to the Mineral Water Bottles idea (by the way... there is the free Embertone Jug Drums for Kontakt).
It is a clear "night and day" on headphones, and this also tells me that this might be a production "mixed on headphones" (a common theme, it seems). Here, the instrumentation works better, but could still be drastically improved with the right EQ, volume and time-based effects. I did get a feeling of a certain "flow of water". The rest is fine-tuning.
Olli H - One Lonely Drop At A Time
I really like the simplistic "late night recording" approach. It has a certain country/singer-songwriting feeling. And I really like the shaker/bass combo. Personally, I'd slightly adjust the EQ for the vocals. As in... fine tuning the low-cut (too much on small speakers, not enough on headphones), and maybe introduce a high-cut to "mellow out" the harshness of the vocals. Then reduce them just by 2dB tops to blend in better with the instrumentation. The second half of the song with the guitars is also a bit loud, but this only feels like that on small speakers. Experimentation here is key, and you said "time management was an issue this month".
On headphones, you're quite in for a "classic mix" treatment... like certain instruments on either almost full Left or full Right. Unexpected, but I like the boldness. Although maybe it's a bit too intense in places. Funny enough, here the solo guitar towards the end works volume wise.
A fun short production that put a smile on my face. Thank you for that.
VCA-089 - Aquamarine
I really like your sound design ideas this month. The "dangerous underwater feeling" does come across nicely, I like the 1980s "Synth-Wave" sound, although the reverb might have been a bit excessive (or not the right type), and the percussion is super loud (on small speakers). Yet, this is a subjective topic, as always. To me, the breaking point are the synthetic sounding guitars (I know what RealLPC is capable of), and in places they feel a bit too quiet (If they were real guitars, maybe also the wrong amp). But in the grand scheme of things, everything works, especially as somewhat "last minute entry".
On headphones, things feel a bit more "glued together" yet again, but even here, the reverb for the LinnDrum feels a bit much, and the kit also a bit loud.
As final note for everyone:
The theme was indeed "Water (Picture Theme)", but this doesn't mean that you have to create something exactly for this picture. The general idea with every game where the theme and genre is simplified, is to "get inspired by it, and then create something that comes to mind". Example: if there would have been a photo of a campfire, and the theme title would have been "burning logs", you could have written something based upon "fire", you could have written something about a get-together, you could have written something about a feeling that gives you (like: late night sitting near it, enjoying the weather, the warmth of the campfire, listening to rustling of the wind, etc).
How literal you take something, is up to you. But I find it sad that we're now starting to point fingers towards other participants, end set personal custom points for "not sticking to a given premise". The Songwriting Competition is about making music in the first place. As long as there are no highly detailed points given, or a disqualification criteria, we shouldn't argue about that as this takes away the fun from the game as a whole.
The mix of ones production, is always a subjective topic. Some went upper mid-range heavy on purpose, others went more into over-processing. This is up to you with each corresponding game. And skills come through experience. There also seems to be a trend, that mixes have been done on headphones. Nothing against that - but please also keep a general listening experience and enjoyment in mind. A song has to work, no matter the listening environment. If your ears start to hurt from listening just once, maybe you need to dial things back a bit. Or if you can only hear "the fine details" on headphones, maybe you should rethink your focus. Something to think about for future games.
Other than that - thank you for participating. By doing that, you already won in my book and I hope you had fun in the process, including trying new things that you usually do not do. The rest is bonus (possible access to tool licenses).
Want to know what the final results are - please read the follow-up post.
As mentioned in post #30, I also wanted to provide some final feedback and cast an additional vote. However, considering that this always results in massive delays on my end, I will probably not comment any further until the next "Video Game Soundtrack" related Songwriting Competition, or unless there is a tie that can't be broken.
On to the feedback before I post the final results
Arelem - Unterwater
I'm focusing on Version 1 of this entry, which is an interesting Trap inspired production. However, I am not really a fan of the vocal mix. I understand the concept of being "Underwater", but I would have maybe went more "dry" on the lead vocals (and only running the effect as a supplement). Not only that, the chorus vocals are drowning in the overall mix.
Speaking of, I understand that this type of music is very bass intensive, and mixing for all types of playback environments is not easy. But in order to also work on small speakers, or finding a better balance, I'd maybe also heavily utilize side-chain processing (kick and bass) to clean up on frequencies. The vocals definitely need to sit a bit more on top (especially the "underwater ones"/chorus). While listening on headphones, it's apparent to me, that this might be a "headphone mix".
A Future In Noise - The Tide (collaboration with alavault)
While I like the overall instrumentation and the 1980s inspired guitars, sadly the drums are getting completely lost on small speakers, and the hats are sticking out too much until the second half of the song kicks in. This is where I'd put the most effort into mixing, as drums are a big element that set the overall tone of a production.
Else, it's very, very upper mid-range heavy, and the constantly switch of the song key (which introduces dissonance in places) throws you for a loop. I also think that the use of 5 reverbs and 6 different delays is a bit excessive, but this is just how I'd work. On headphones with larger drivers, things sound a bit more balanced out, you even hear the drums better (the first half only being a kick, hats and a tambourine). But even then, the drums are a bit subdued while the E-Piano and guitars stick out a tad too much. In fact, on headphones, you can also clearly hear, that the snare has a bit too much low-mids for that particular genre's time frame. It's also more apparent in this case, that certain cymbals are cut off. As somebody experienced with playing drums, this can't be overheard.
Becsei_Gyorgy - Tricky Fountains
Looks like you put your collection of Spitfire Audio samples to the test here. Personally I think the Harpsichord is way too loud for comfort (this is just how Harpsichords are, I'm afraid - they cut through everything), but I like the overall back and forth of "movements". Not a fan of the water sample, yet I get the idea -- if you were to really score for a TV scene and you were asked to replace the Foley work.
Not quite Smetana's "The Moldau", but definitely something interesting that sadly lacks a bit of low-end (small speakers), while on headphones the "ambiences" (room sounds) don't feel like they match between the orchestra sections.
Esteve Corbera - Les Gotesd Aigua
I really like your concept of using water sounds as rhythmic elements, with the main beat giving you the feeling that it's a steady stream of certain droplets, very bold and experimental. The things that sadly kind of destroy the feeling, are the synthetic harps and bells. Especially the intro harp is sticking out too much, and with the used reverb turns easily into an annoying drone. The "bells" could have been more subdued as well. This is more than present especially on small speakers. Not too sure if I'm a fan of certain chords in the background giving you the feel that things run against the grain. But it adds to the overall feeling, and fits the general concept.
It is a bit better on headphones, since you can now hear the strings better, and I do get a certain "Kraftwerk" vibe. But the mix could still be more balanced. One way or the other, looks like the Songwriting Competition really helps you with your production techniques. I can hardly wait what you could produce in January with the "Community Scramble".
GamaGama - Fast Stream Runto River
An attempt to mix Mexican Street Music with Disco, interesting approach to the given "idea". But I see so much room for improvements for the mix. However, reading up on your limitations (time limit, not being used to the available software tools, reviving an old MIDI project), you made the best out of the situation.
If you could go back to the production, the lead trumpet is way too dry, it could either use a supporting delay, or a more suitable reverb. The rest of the brass section definitely works better, but especially on headphones you hear the stark contrast of all instruments (using different reverbs and all). The beat is sadly a bit mush as well. Proper EQ for certain sections would have put a different emphasis on the groove (also maybe making them a bit less "MIDI quantized" like, but then again... the late 19870 Euro-Disco songs were all about that).
Great concept, maybe you can repeat that experiment in the future. Or who knows, maybe you get access a similar setup in the future. If anything, this clearly shows that "limitations are sometimes good for creativity" - but you'll be the judge of that. The mix is a completely different topic then.
KukoBass - Fountain in Slow Motion
Seeing that this month was mainly a "learning experience" with a new DAW and it's tools for you, I think the general idea of the Songwriting Competition (just make music, experiment) came across perfectly. Still, the production feels a bit barren.
Certain instruments, like the background strings get a bit lost in the mix, the drum loop is the driving element this time around, and everything feels a bit... "dry" so to speak. If anything, I'd add some more modulation effects. Delay to extend audio gaps, a bit more processing on the main piano (due to the dynamic nature of the piano, it stands out too much - compression does wonders on "Alicia's Keys", then setting the right volume is easier), I would have loved to listen to the Mineral Water Bottles idea (by the way... there is the free Embertone Jug Drums for Kontakt).
It is a clear "night and day" on headphones, and this also tells me that this might be a production "mixed on headphones" (a common theme, it seems). Here, the instrumentation works better, but could still be drastically improved with the right EQ, volume and time-based effects. I did get a feeling of a certain "flow of water". The rest is fine-tuning.
Olli H - One Lonely Drop At A Time
I really like the simplistic "late night recording" approach. It has a certain country/singer-songwriting feeling. And I really like the shaker/bass combo. Personally, I'd slightly adjust the EQ for the vocals. As in... fine tuning the low-cut (too much on small speakers, not enough on headphones), and maybe introduce a high-cut to "mellow out" the harshness of the vocals. Then reduce them just by 2dB tops to blend in better with the instrumentation. The second half of the song with the guitars is also a bit loud, but this only feels like that on small speakers. Experimentation here is key, and you said "time management was an issue this month".
On headphones, you're quite in for a "classic mix" treatment... like certain instruments on either almost full Left or full Right. Unexpected, but I like the boldness. Although maybe it's a bit too intense in places. Funny enough, here the solo guitar towards the end works volume wise.
A fun short production that put a smile on my face. Thank you for that.
VCA-089 - Aquamarine
I really like your sound design ideas this month. The "dangerous underwater feeling" does come across nicely, I like the 1980s "Synth-Wave" sound, although the reverb might have been a bit excessive (or not the right type), and the percussion is super loud (on small speakers). Yet, this is a subjective topic, as always. To me, the breaking point are the synthetic sounding guitars (I know what RealLPC is capable of), and in places they feel a bit too quiet (If they were real guitars, maybe also the wrong amp). But in the grand scheme of things, everything works, especially as somewhat "last minute entry".
On headphones, things feel a bit more "glued together" yet again, but even here, the reverb for the LinnDrum feels a bit much, and the kit also a bit loud.
As final note for everyone:
The theme was indeed "Water (Picture Theme)", but this doesn't mean that you have to create something exactly for this picture. The general idea with every game where the theme and genre is simplified, is to "get inspired by it, and then create something that comes to mind". Example: if there would have been a photo of a campfire, and the theme title would have been "burning logs", you could have written something based upon "fire", you could have written something about a get-together, you could have written something about a feeling that gives you (like: late night sitting near it, enjoying the weather, the warmth of the campfire, listening to rustling of the wind, etc).
How literal you take something, is up to you. But I find it sad that we're now starting to point fingers towards other participants, end set personal custom points for "not sticking to a given premise". The Songwriting Competition is about making music in the first place. As long as there are no highly detailed points given, or a disqualification criteria, we shouldn't argue about that as this takes away the fun from the game as a whole.
The mix of ones production, is always a subjective topic. Some went upper mid-range heavy on purpose, others went more into over-processing. This is up to you with each corresponding game. And skills come through experience. There also seems to be a trend, that mixes have been done on headphones. Nothing against that - but please also keep a general listening experience and enjoyment in mind. A song has to work, no matter the listening environment. If your ears start to hurt from listening just once, maybe you need to dial things back a bit. Or if you can only hear "the fine details" on headphones, maybe you should rethink your focus. Something to think about for future games.
Other than that - thank you for participating. By doing that, you already won in my book and I hope you had fun in the process, including trying new things that you usually do not do. The rest is bonus (possible access to tool licenses).
Want to know what the final results are - please read the follow-up post.
► Show Spoiler
- Mister Fox
- Site Admin
- Posts: 3417
- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 16:15 CEST
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SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC060 August 2022 - Winners announced
Ladies and Gentlemen, here are the results of Songwriting Competition 60
The winners podium consists of:
Apologies for the waiting time, this is not an automated process.
<4 participant rule is not in use (staff comments and votes, my vote would count as bonus)
We have 0 disqualification (due to lack of feedback)
We have 0 withdrawn entries
We have 0 votes after the deadline - therefore -5 points penalty
We have 2 users that tied
STATISTICS SHEET:
Overview of Submissions (PDF - updated: 08-SEP-2022, full sheet)
Here are the results as chart in image form:
Thank you so much for your participation.
License selection:
We'll now perform with the usual. Selecting licenses is handled in public. Please select one license/company out of the pool (in order of the winners podium) and mention it in this thread, then (important) please get in touch with me (via PM) with your full name, email address and your license selection.
As usual - you're not forced to pick up anything. You can pass and therefore offer more to select for the next person in line (if there is a spot existing / not available for "sole winner" mechanic). Just let all participants/winners/the staff know in a timely manner (within 5 days). Once one company has been selected, it's out of the pool for the next person on the podium.
I re-open the field for talking some more about each others' productions. If things drift a bit too off-topic, please use the General Gossip thread, or Discord.
See you in in the next challenge!
Songwriting Competition 061 (September 2022) is still in full swing. There is currently one entry, waiting for interaction.
Please help spread the word!
The winners podium consists of:
- @Olli H
- @VCA-089
- @a Future In Noise (in collaboration with @alavault)
Apologies for the waiting time, this is not an automated process.
<4 participant rule is not in use (staff comments and votes, my vote would count as bonus)
We have 0 disqualification (due to lack of feedback)
We have 0 withdrawn entries
We have 0 votes after the deadline - therefore -5 points penalty
We have 2 users that tied
- a Future In Noise has 1x10pts, 3x9pts, 0x8pts -- Arelem has 1x10pts, 1x9pts, 2x8pts -- a Future In Noise therefore scores higher (based upon participant votes only, not counting the "client vote")
- no (more) users that tied
STATISTICS SHEET:
Overview of Submissions (PDF - updated: 08-SEP-2022, full sheet)
Here are the results as chart in image form:
Thank you so much for your participation.
License selection:
We'll now perform with the usual. Selecting licenses is handled in public. Please select one license/company out of the pool (in order of the winners podium) and mention it in this thread, then (important) please get in touch with me (via PM) with your full name, email address and your license selection.
As usual - you're not forced to pick up anything. You can pass and therefore offer more to select for the next person in line (if there is a spot existing / not available for "sole winner" mechanic). Just let all participants/winners/the staff know in a timely manner (within 5 days). Once one company has been selected, it's out of the pool for the next person on the podium.
I re-open the field for talking some more about each others' productions. If things drift a bit too off-topic, please use the General Gossip thread, or Discord.
See you in in the next challenge!
Songwriting Competition 061 (September 2022) is still in full swing. There is currently one entry, waiting for interaction.
Please help spread the word!
- A Future in Noise
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- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 09:26 CET
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC060 August 2022 - results in preparation
Thank you for your feedback, Mr. Fox. The only dissonance I'm aware of is the one in the second chorus's first bar (1:45), where some of the musicians thinks it's C major and others it is C minor. (This has been corrected in a new version, in which the saxophone is louder, too.)Mister Fox wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:18 CEST... and the constantly switch of the song key (which introduces dissonance in places) throws you for a loop.
But are there other places as well? It would be very interesting to know where. The saxophone player uses a lot of bending, but I have hard to believe that's what you mean. (You mention switch of key … hmmm …)
What does "throw for a loop" mean?
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Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC060 August 2022 - Winners announced
To quickly answer your question:
"to throw (someone) for a loop" basically means being confused or surprised. In this case, it's more on the confusing end of things.
Yes, the transition around 1:45min feels weird, but this is where you also start to change the general tone of the production as well. From 2:42min, it turns into a bit of insanity, with chords going up a half-step, then somehow back down again. This happens at the 3:30min mark, and again at the 3:51min mark, and again at the 4:14min mark, and once more at 4:36min. I am sorry that I can't explain this any better, as harmony theory is not my strong suit. But it's definitely not the same key as the first half of the song anymore. It keeps on switching, and yes... the Saxophone player does add to the disharmony around the course of the chord transition, which sounds even more abrupt with the choked cymbal samples.
Interesting concept for sure, like a "tide" pushing and pulling. But it really throws you off (for a loop).
I already went in-depth about the topic of mixing.
"to throw (someone) for a loop" basically means being confused or surprised. In this case, it's more on the confusing end of things.
Yes, the transition around 1:45min feels weird, but this is where you also start to change the general tone of the production as well. From 2:42min, it turns into a bit of insanity, with chords going up a half-step, then somehow back down again. This happens at the 3:30min mark, and again at the 3:51min mark, and again at the 4:14min mark, and once more at 4:36min. I am sorry that I can't explain this any better, as harmony theory is not my strong suit. But it's definitely not the same key as the first half of the song anymore. It keeps on switching, and yes... the Saxophone player does add to the disharmony around the course of the chord transition, which sounds even more abrupt with the choked cymbal samples.
Interesting concept for sure, like a "tide" pushing and pulling. But it really throws you off (for a loop).
I already went in-depth about the topic of mixing.
Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC060 August 2022 - Winners announced
I surely didn't expect any positions this month, as my submission was made in hurry. But as I liked the last minute idea that came into my mind out of the blue, so I decided to try.
I'll take the Musiclab's acoustic guitar "REALGUITAR".
I'll take the Musiclab's acoustic guitar "REALGUITAR".