2024-NOV-01 Info: Thank you everyone, for making MC100 a resounding success. Please show Songwriting Competition 087 the same love.

MIX CHALLENGE - MC100 October 2024 - Mix Round 2 until 26-NOV-2024 23:59 UTC+1/CET

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PhilBeis
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC100 October 2024 - Submissions until 21-OCT-2024 23:59 UTC+2/CEST

#41

Post by PhilBeis »

PonySho wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2024 20:11 CEST
PhilBeis wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2024 00:53 CEST
Hi all, my first time here.

Here is my try: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NRzAE9 ... sp=sharing

Quite a lot of stuff used in the mix...
Hi PhilBeis. Welcome to the forum. I really like your mix. It's very balanced and unhyped.
I see you're using the Sonible SmartEQ - I'm using it too and I like it a lot.
Your mix is my fave mix so far.
Hi PonySho, thank you!
And yes, SmartEQ is very flexible and yet quite simple to use, it is a nice tool.
PhilBeis
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC100 October 2024 - Submissions until 21-OCT-2024 23:59 UTC+2/CEST

#42

Post by PhilBeis »

amtown wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2024 13:33 CEST
@PhilBeis Great mix :clap: ! I like that the vocal delay is apparent during the softer vocal sections. I considered a vocal throw on that part, but thought it might have been too much.
Thank you amtown, I'm flattered :smile:
PonySho
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC100 October 2024 - Submissions until 21-OCT-2024 23:59 UTC+2/CEST

#43

Post by PonySho »

floodo wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2024 01:23 CEST
A question colleagues, anyone else noticed a very annoying resonance in most of the tracks around 4700hz? or is it my equipment? or is it the room where the tracks were recorded?
There are definitely some nasty resonances. My guess is that they're from a combination of EQing and sub par reverb. The reverb is very metallic sounding on the vocals - not easy to work with. But hey, it's no fun if there's no challenge :wink:
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Rc²
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC100 October 2024 - Submissions until 21-OCT-2024 23:59 UTC+2/CEST

#44

Post by Rc² »

Here is my go at this one, I really had a lot of fun with this!

I definitely found myself starting to go in circles though and worry I over egged things a little and hope I did manage to keep the energy of the original. I got to that point where I was just 2nd guessing what I think the artist would like when in reality I have no idea if this is their thing or not :confused: If I was working with a band I would have definitely asked for feedback at a much earlier point in the process and realise now I actually find that one of the biggest challenges of the mix challenge. Its a lesson in itself!

Wav File
Mix Console Screenshot 1
Mix Console Screenshot 2

Key Things with the mix...

Generally you see me use Scheps Omni on nearly everything. It will always have an ample amount of saturation applied (Heavy or Even) if you see me use it, I use the de-esser a lot as a high/low pass dynamic eq too, there is just something about it for me where it just works really well at this job.

You see the Mv2 used a lot too, I use this for stabilising a performance a lot, more so than other compressors as I find having the upward compression as well as the downward tends to bring life into things rather than suck it out. Its also so easy to use!

The Kramer Tape is just for a little bit of Saturation/coloration and for the 'shape' and generally I just use it on the busses.

The Drums

I relied heavily on the Overheads and Rooms with heavy compression for the drum sound using the MV2. I used the Q3 to side chain duck a little with the Snare / Kick just to help the transients of the close mikes get through.

The kick and Snare have dynamic EQ on them, a lot of mid boost around 900 on the kick to try to give it some top end without getting too clicky.


Bass

I found this sound difficult as it lacked upper mids for me and I find that really hard breath energy into it. This is why it got a lot of plugins and then I generally tried not to over do each of them, if I was smarter about it I could probably pull a couple out.

The Kramer HLS adds some 700Htz, an Andrew Scheps trick that works great on so many basses. The C4 was to even out the bass a little more. Amplitube was the big shift for using a tube screamer and cranked high boost / treble on a Gallien Krueger. Scheps for more harmonics/saturation and it has a RAxx for more compression. Q3 to dynamically remove some mids for clarity, I try to avoid it on bass but this needed it still to me. Kramer tape for more saturation. L1 to try to add some more levelling at the end.

Guitars

honestly most just had some Even Harmonics added from the Scheps and maybe a little upper mids and/or a some little RAxx just give them a little more in yer face. I usually find I don't do much with guitars. There's some tape delay and slap too.

Vocals

They had some scheps saturation, Rvox, the Mv2 is to bring out the details a little.

The instrument buss has the Q3 side chained to the vox to duck some high mids for the vocal to cut through. I do this on the guitar bus too for the Snare & Kick.
Last edited by Rc² on Thu Oct 10, 2024 20:05 CEST, edited 1 time in total.
JeroenZuiderwijk
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC100 October 2024 - Submissions until 21-OCT-2024 23:59 UTC+2/CEST

#45

Post by JeroenZuiderwijk »

Hi all,

great to see so many participants already enjoying mixing my song. I know it is a challenge, I also struggled with the tracks.

I do have a request. This is for most of us (including myself) a learning experience. So it would really help if everybody not only mentioned the plug ins they used but also the reason behind certain mix decisions and how the plug ins are used. I am personally not interested in what brand eq someone used but I want to know why you think something was necessary to apply to the mix and why you tried to solve it in the way you did.

That would, for me at least, makes this mix-challenge extra interesting.

Cheers!

Jeroen
SDB_12
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC100 October 2024 - Submissions until 21-OCT-2024 23:59 UTC+2/CEST

#46

Post by SDB_12 »

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/fe0r4vfs ... jlziy&dl=0

Hello,

What a fun song to mix and listen to, thank you for providing us with some fun energetic music to play with :)

I'll try to explain some of what I did, and the reasoning behind it, as requested above, the best I can.

I started the mix getting a basic balance and then going through the guitar tracks trying to figure out how I wanted them panned and blended. That was the main thing I wanted to get worked out right away.

Once I had a nice blend going, I engaged some hardware. On the mixbus, everything is going through an Alan Smart C1LA compressor, and into a pair of Audioscape Pultecs (EQP-A's). The Pultecs had no eq to start, I like to play with that a little later in the mix. But the compressor was on from the start. I like a slow attack, fast release and 4:1 ratio on it. This allows a lot of hefty punch to come through and helps add energy.

Individual drum tracks stayed ITB, but were bussed to a stereo Drum Mix that had a hardware Lindell 77x compressor (think 2x 1176 style compressors) and then going into a pair of CAPI BT50 eq's (same as API 550A's). The Lindell is set to 40% wet (so mostly dry) and is used as a parallel compressor. This thing makes drums sound huge and exciting. The CAPIs are boosting a little 50hz, and a a lot of 5khz shelf. The filters are engaged on this unit to tighten the sound.

I didn't want a lot of rumbling sub in this track, so I tried to go for more of a punchy kick sound, with just a little sub...otherwise it seemed too boomy and messy. I wanted it to sound raw, but like a record. On individual drum tracks, I stuck mostly with an SSL channel strip plugin, silencer (gate), Crave EQ, and then 1073 style plugins for saturation (snare)...as well as on kick to add just a little bottom.

For the snare I used the fast attack on the SSL strip, as well as a 1073 plugin, lofi, and Slate VTM all to try and control that snappy poppy snare thing going on. I wanted it to sound more raw and grungy...but cutting.


Bass went through my Audioscape V-Comp and into a Heritage Audio 1081 style Pre/EQ. I filtered out the subs a bit, and boosted some body to sit with the kick. I also played with driving it a little and boosting some upper mids to make it bite/growl a in the track. Overall, I just wanted it sitting nice with the kick and providing a bed for guitars to sit on but not be too subby...I thought it should drive the track more rather than be too bottom heavy.

Guitars got the most work I'd say...I ran them all out through a pair of Heritage Audio 1073 style Pre/EQ units, and into a pair of GAP 3A style compressors. I bussed all the guitars to a guitar aux, and inserted the hardware there. I used this to get a basic sound across all the guitars, then as I was printing each track back in, I'd adjust the EQ, Preamp drive, and compression to suite each track...committing and building the guitar sound as I went. Overall and in general, I filtered out the low end to make room for the bass, and found areas in the low mids and upper mids/highs to boost and or cut in order to get certain tracks to blend or pop. I love Neve style eq on electric guitar b/c it's easy to filter out lows using the HPF, just sounds great, and then the EQ points can really help guitars to push forward and bite. Plus the saturation just plays great with electric guitar I feel.

I didn't touch the synth track really...just ran it through a pair of CAPI LC25 eq's...but no eq...only used it for the opamps. So really no change there.

Lead Vocal...I usually use my Audioscape 1176 bluestripe hardware, but since the vocals were in stereo...I went through a pair of Neve 542 tape emulators, and AML 52f50 compressors. The reason was to try and warm it up without dulling it. The 542's help smooth it out and give it some thickness and harmonics...and the AML compressor is a little dark/round...and just sounded really nice. The rest was done ITB with plugins. I still felt like I needed to control some of the spikes and harshness...so I did some de-clicking with RX, and also used LoFi and a tape machine plugin to give it more smoothness/vibe. Aside from that, a little eq (SSL channel and Crave) and a little more compression from an 1176 plugin was used to help it to really sit in the track better. I used RDesser as well, and a multiband limiter to help control it at the end of the chain...barely hitting.

All instruments (except drums/bass) are sent in parallel to a "wide" bus that has a little parallel eq and widening. This helps things sound big and wrap around the vocal.

I didn't use many effects, a little room on some drums/solo guitar, and a delay on vocals. I think a little short chamber on background vocals as well so that the decay would last just a little longer on them.

There are a few other things going on in my template, but it's a lot to get into. So I'll stop for now. Somewhere in the middle of the mix, I ended up boosting 5khz on my Audioscape Pultecs just a little to help the energy and cohesiveness of the whole track out just a tad. I did mix into some clipping as well, for the sound. This is not for loudness...it helps control transients in a really nice way for me, and barely hitting. Without it, things sound more pokey which I didn't want on this song.

All in all, I hope I was able to help bring out some energy in the track and keep it feeling raw, but also hopefully sounding like a record.


On a side note:

I'd like to encourage people while listening to all of these mixes, not to just run them back to back, one right after the other. This will not give your ears time to adjust and reset. I feel it's important to be comparing these mixes to commercial releases in-between each mix submission. Listen to a contestant mix, then refresh by listening to one of the reference tracks (like AC/DC)...then move on.

I notice often that a lot of the mixes that get selected for the next round are very thick...with a lot of bottom and may sound nice and full compared to other mix submissions...however...when you compare these mixes to commercial releases...they often sound way too boomy/muddy and more like a rough mix than like a record...at least to my ears. But maybe I'm crazy... :grin: Could totally just be my taste.

Just a thought, have fun everyone! Thanks again for the cool song!
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Edling
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC100 October 2024 - Submissions until 21-OCT-2024 23:59 UTC+2/CEST

#47

Post by Edling »

JeroenZuiderwijk wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2024 17:52 CEST
Hi all,

great to see so many participants already enjoying mixing my song. I know it is a challenge, I also struggled with the tracks.

I do have a request. This is for most of us (including myself) a learning experience. So it would really help if everybody not only mentioned the plug ins they used but also the reason behind certain mix decisions and how the plug ins are used. I am personally not interested in what brand eq someone used but I want to know why you think something was necessary to apply to the mix and why you tried to solve it in the way you did.

That would, for me at least, makes this mix-challenge extra interesting.

Cheers!

Jeroen
Great idea, us mixing nerds tend to focus on WHAT we do, not WHY we do it :) Allow me to go first :)

Kick
I slightly distorted it through the preamp as I find it adds both a subtle compression, as well as bring out some edge, if done right.

Snare
I normally don't care too much about bleed in live drums BUT the already applied gate made the bleed very apparent so I first filtered out as much as I could. Then I used distortion to add some grit and shave of the biggest transient, and the rest of the effects where applied to add body, and make the snare smoother and fatter. Gated reverbs are awesome for this on snare drums and was also widely used in the grunge era (In Utero, Golden State for example).

Room
Adding massive compression kills all the transients and helps bring out the dirt in the room mic. Works well when you don't want the drums to sound to clean and you want to bring up all of that good stuff happening between the hits.

Drum bus
I distorted the overall drum bus during the first verse as I felt it was more laid back in terms of playing. I just wanted to emphasize this by pulling the drums back, and also to get a bigger dynamic leap going into the first chorus.

Guitars
Automation always add life to a mix. Some of the things I did was pulling guitars more into the center during the verse, and using more reverb/delay on the verses on the long chords to give space. Then reducing effects on the choruses when the guitar is playing more rhythm, and reverbs tend to blur it out. I for example added lots of delay to the final chord of the intro, just to get more sustain going into the first verse.

Vocals
The vocals were already quite processed so I just tried to control them a bit and respect that processing that was already done. If a choice has already been done for me, I will assume that choice was done for a good reason!

Apart from that, really fun song to mix. I love to mix rock, and especially live drums. Regardless of how the drums are recorded it brings a completely different energy to a track than "artificial" drums do. Without rules I probably would have triggered some of the drums, not to replace the original sounds, more in order to add stuff that I found was missing. Basically I tend to search for samples that sound as much as I perceive the original drums would've sounded in the recording space, and then blend that sample into the drum bus to add clarity/punch or whatever might be missing from the recording. The goal should always be to make the drums sound as good as possible, not make them sound different.
Old-school mixer that started out in -95 on tape-machines and analog desks. Today mostly in-the-box. Big UAD fanboy
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC100 October 2024 - Submissions until 21-OCT-2024 23:59 UTC+2/CEST

#48

Post by PauPeu »

Nice song! It was fun to mix. I'm a big fan of Heavy Trash, a side project of Jon Spencer, and I tried to emulate their raw, gritty sound with lots of distortion, tape delays, and 'cavernous' reverbs.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j7vutY ... sp=sharing

Here’s a quick summary of the mixing process:

Kick: Added more bass and a slight boost around 2kHz for more attack, and removed an annoying frequency around 130Hz.
Snare: Applied a low-pass filter around 10kHz and added more body, as it was a bit too clicky.
Toms: Added a big low shelf and some clipping.
Overheads: Removed certain frequencies around 500Hz, 4kHz, and 11kHz, then compressed using the ADC compressor from Kiive Audio.
Room: Distorted heavily using Culture Vulture.
Reverbs: Added room reverbs here and there, aiming for that raw, live sound.
Drum buss: Applied saturation, EQ, and some clipping.
Guitars: There were a lot of them. I worked to balance the frequencies and create dynamic contrasts using EQ, saturation, a little reverb, and some tape delay in the verse section. I don't think I used any compression on them.

Bass: As suggested by the author, I used distortion, EQ, and some clipping.

Vocals: Added quite a bit of console-style distortion, a generous boost in the mids, and some compression, with a large send to tape delays.

Backing Vocals: Used forced stereo and a touch of dynamic EQ.

There's more I could share if anyone's interested!

Mix buss: Added a little EQ (interestingly, a slight boost around 330Hz), some minor saturation, but no clipping or limiting. I noticed this really helps with the perceived loudness at -16 LUFS—probably a topic for another discussion.

Cheers, and happy mixing!

pd. There's still some issues with the soloand some transitions, I hope I will improve them.
Strange
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC100 October 2024 - Submissions until 21-OCT-2024 23:59 UTC+2/CEST

#49

Post by Strange »

Thank you Jeroen for providing the tracks, thanks Mr. Fox for anything else!

Here are my musical thoughts:
I hear a dutch Rockband playing Golding Earring turning into Green Day. So I choosed these references. Maybe I got it a little bit.
Mr.Rock'n'Roll

Mixer screenshot
MixBuss screenshot

Here are some reasons for my decisions:

Drums: I tried the rocking side with the ssl9000 and some smoother Neve on the Toms. The snare needs some softer transients for the Radar Love intro, so I choosed the Studer Tape

Bass: Ampeg for the sound and saturation for the Rock'n'Roll

Guitars: Only EQ and Equator for unmasking and a little PawnShop comp and the Helios Console on the GTR-Buss

Vocals: first I de-reverbed the lead Vocals with Clarity-DeReverb. The rest are some typical 1167 and LA-2A comps, small EQ tweaks and smart deessing
The lead Vox got some ambience-reverb and a slap-delay, the Backing Growls got some additional Delay.

MixBuss: You definitly hear the Chandler Germanium, the smack and the grit. Ampex-Tape smooth it a little bit, bx digital V3 makes it a little bit wider, Equator and SSL Mix MultiComp tame the resonances , The Newfangled limiter cuts some little peaks without sounddifferences.

Cheers!
Last edited by Strange on Thu Oct 10, 2024 09:52 CEST, edited 1 time in total.
Strange
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Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC100 October 2024 - Submissions until 21-OCT-2024 23:59 UTC+2/CEST

#50

Post by Strange »

SDB_12 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2024 22:14 CEST
On a side note:

I'd like to encourage people while listening to all of these mixes, not to just run them back to back, one right after the other. This will not give your ears time to adjust and reset. I feel it's important to be comparing these mixes to commercial releases in-between each mix submission. Listen to a contestant mix, then refresh by listening to one of the reference tracks (like AC/DC)...then move on.

I notice often that a lot of the mixes that get selected for the next round are very thick...with a lot of bottom and may sound nice and full compared to other mix submissions...however...when you compare these mixes to commercial releases...they often sound way too boomy/muddy and more like a rough mix than like a record...at least to my ears. But maybe I'm crazy... :grin: Could totally just be my taste.

Just a thought, have fun everyone! Thanks again for the cool song!
I agree, but maybe the monitors or the rooms doesn't translate the sound very well. Did you see the Interview with Rick Rubin at Rick Beato? Rick Rubin controlled his Mixes on cassettes in a rented Toyota. Maybe this is the solution :wink:
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