MIX CHALLENGE - MC072 December 2020 - Winners announced

[White Punk OD]

Hello everyone,

first of all: thank you very much to all of you for your fast response! What a great and helpful community.
...

cheers, welcome, and happy mixing, plz you might check it out also for the vocals, I'd like to remind that there is a difference between a generally honky mid-range, and room-modes or ringing frequencies. (I use TDR Nova GE, the pro version, for the latter, and am quite satisfied with what it can do.)

[skym]

Here's my round 2 submission.. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_b_1MT ... sp=sharing

adjusted the levels of the vocals where they were a bit too loud, also pushed a bit of the snare group into the room reverb and made the general tone of the snare and brush just a bit darker which I think fit the song better overall. This has been a lot of fun and a great learning experience. Can't wait for more challenges !

[Clueless]

Many thanks for the opportunity to have a go @R2
Changes in R2,
Added saturation to vocal reverb
Acceleration 2 & Pop(minimal) on master buss
Reduced a bit of treble on mids/sides
Tried to intensify the guitar @1.25 so that it sat better within the mix using treble from Valver, notch @ D7 to loose whistle, although thinner Q, added a spring reverb send and a ResEQ
Adjusted the width & levels so that it wouldn’t overpower but still give a good sense of itself.
later in the track, when guitar returned, didn’t add so much treble from Valver, too many competing elements @ that point.
Did a bit of cleaning up in various places,and, changed some MS delay, changes can be heard by inverting original, used this to locate some additional errors.

https://mega.nz/file/ikNBWYpR#65c-uKOqp ... 3YUVDMl7Rw

► Show Spoiler

so I investigated the drum Technique and got some good hints of Gearslutz
also found some details regarding guitar positioning and using Airwindows on Accoustic Mixing
No hi pass or low pass , just lo, hi shelf


39 Acoustic Guitar Kolin, dmg track control ReaEq adjusted width with automation

dragonfly plate , ReaEq Slide guitar & Guitar acoustic

29 Guitar Split into 3, ReaEq & pan @ 16,16 & 20

36 Slide Guitar ReaEq to Plate

35 Solo Guitar Split into 2, automated Pan when Vocal in sent to Airwindows Guitar conditioner and Musical Entropy Guitar Gadgets , ReaEq

32 Guitar Stereo R,L panned 66&67
ReaEq, into Valves Audio Thing, ReaEq, Busterse AO, dmg track control

34 Guitar stereo2 , as above, minus Valves and panned 66,58

30 Guitar Tremelo no fx

no send on above tracks

11,17,27,28 grouped to ReaEq
Airwindows Distance on 17,28
ReaEq on 17
no fx on 11
sent to ReaEq, Ferox, AWSlew3 inverted
above sent to Pocketverbs AW, ReaEq

26,25,24,23 grouped dmg track control
ReaEq

Drums
16,14,13,12 ReaEq on 16,14,13

07,08 grouped Airwindows Basskit
07 Basskit, Kolin, Britpressor AO, GGate
08 GGate
into Basskit, ReaEq

09,10,15 grouped dmg track control, AW varimu, ReaEq, Britpressor, GGate, ReaEq
15 AW Distance

above sent to
1 AW purest echo
2 dragonfly plate , ReaEq GGate, Gatelope
3 AW Drive

all drums, apart from 11,17,27,28
sent to
1 ReaEq, Pafnuty, Varimu, Pafnuty
2 BassDrive AW
3 AW Pop
4 AW varimu

22,21 grouped WOKS palmspeaker
sent to ReaEq, Varimu
panned 49,50

19,20 grouped Pafnuty, MIAmuscle, Border MIA, ReaEq
panned 50,50


18 minus delay, ReaEq, Pafnuty, Varimu AW, Pafnuty

Vocals
37,06,05,04,03,02 grouped dmg track control ReaEq, AW sidepass, Phasenudge AW, AW. ADT, ReaEq

06,05,04 panned 100 L&R
02 inverted
01 AO kabin, TDR nova,ReaEq, Kolin AO, TDR nova

all vocals sent to
1 AW Focus, Elation,Varimu, ReaEq
2 Sandford Reverb, ReaEq

main buss
mvmeter 2, DMG track control AO N492me, Spiral 2, JS dc filter
Span, Youlean, Voxengo Correlometer

[Mister Fox]

A friendly reminder:
We're in the final 24 hours to submit your edit for Mix Round 2

[RonHalperin]

Hey,

I know im little late, but since i worked on the mix quite a bit, (and really enjoyed it)

I think it's one of the best mixes!
Musically very pleasing.
It has warmth in the mid-range, as far as I understood, it is what the client is preferring. Good electric guitars.
Vocals on the natural side as well, but a bit brighter than average, which I like.
I seem to hear no technical issues, and what you documented, basically completes the experiences I made (bass needs a lot of work, etc.)
I am wondering though, the solo git starts in the right speaker and after the run jumps into the center, and the cut seems not really in sync. In the second "grita" chorus, we have a sharp git jumping in from the left side, it might be a bit sticking out.
Have many listeners, and a good holiday season!!

@White Punk OD thanks a lot for your detailed reply, I'm really appreciating it!

[RonHalperin]

The "Overview of Submissions" PDFs have been uploaded.
You can check them through the upper post. (post #103)

Changes:
- added @RonHalperin's entry (I will not add further entries - this was an exception)
- fixed the labeling (MC072 December instead of MC071 November)
- removed one color code (we rarely run into this, so it's been omitted)


On that behalf:

@RonHalperin
Your entry was sadly a tad too hot loudness wise if we go by pure technical analysis.

While a drift of +-1 LU from a certain target value (example: -16LUFS for iTunes) is allowed for most distribution platforms and/or broadcasting, the Mix Challenge permits a range of -24,0 LUFS ILk (absolute minimum) to -16,0 LUFS ILk (absolute maximum). Something to look out for future participation. I've mentioned this before, but the main concept of this game is not to "limit" you in your creativity, but to slightly nudge you to give your material room to breathe / be more dynamic. Basically going away from "sausage mixes".

Anyone else think that this would be a good idea?

Can we please move this to the Gossip Thread as part of a proper conversation? Let's gather some more feedback on this, maybe even some basic concepts. Also, this would be a tad easier to find than in a regular challenge thread. Thank you @cpsmusic, @White Punk OD, @m_tree.

@Mister Fox thank you for letting me post my mix! I like this procedure about the LUFS value and agree.

[javiramallo]

Hey,

I know im little late, but since i worked on the mix quite a bit, (and really enjoyed it)

I think it's one of the best mixes!
Musically very pleasing.
It has warmth in the mid-range, as far as I understood, it is what the client is preferring. Good electric guitars.
Vocals on the natural side as well, but a bit brighter than average, which I like.
I seem to hear no technical issues, and what you documented, basically completes the experiences I made (bass needs a lot of work, etc.)
I am wondering though, the solo git starts in the right speaker and after the run jumps into the center, and the cut seems not really in sync. In the second "grita" chorus, we have a sharp git jumping in from the left side, it might be a bit sticking out.
Have many listeners, and a good holiday season!!

@White Punk OD thanks a lot for your detailed reply, I'm really appreciating it!

I also think that is a really winner mix!
Congratulations!

[Blang]

Hi everyone,

Here is my submission for Round 2:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_B9MSG ... sp=sharing

Before making any alterations I listened to the mixes that made Round 2, made some notes and compared these to the client suggestions. I did this to try if could distill the taste of the client and my own. It still amazes how even slight differences in mix can have such an impact on the listening experience.

For my first mix I wanted the ac guitar to carry the groove, but now I also feel that it’s unnecessarily loud. In mix-2 it’s working more in tandem with the hihat, ride, shaker and triangle. The perceived darkness of my mix-1 is mainly caused by some muddiness in the harmonic instrument I believe. So I reduced some lo-mids in instruments that didn’t really need it and turned up elements that sit in the bright range > cymbals and percussion.

For the round2 mix, I pushed the snare more towards a rock sound; more weight and punch, less boxy. Luckily the client and I both dig the snare sound of @Jerze, so I tried Devil-Loc on snare (which I usually have on drumbus) and blended it in ever so slightly, because that thing is far from ‘natural’

Furthermore I (dynamically) reduced some 2k in some instruments (guitars, piano, vocal) so now it’s less harsh, but still sounds energetic and bright. By making these adjustments there was a need/room for more volume automation to contrast the different sections.

I’m pleased to being doing this recall mix after reading the suggestions and hearing the other submissions, because I feel that it’s not just a different mix, but actually better.

Have a good 2021!!

[Oba Ozai]

@JohnK Greetings and thanks for your response. Apologies for the delay in me getting back.

Even if I was DSQ using samples, I think we can help you moving forward.

Not sure what you mean, but thanks for the offering.

When I listen to your mix, I was thrown back a couple of years when I first started, so here are some tips & trix on how you can improve from my perspective.

When @javiramayo told you to listen to other mixes and then to yours, he means that it takes thousand of hours to get used to listen to certain frequency ranges in a mix. It takes a really long time, I promise.

I centrally have not been thousands of hours behind any DAW.

However... I suggest you do following to really hear the differences between yours and others, just to get the "big" picture of how a song "should" sound like.

Sounds good.

Now, when you have reached a point and learned how to gain stage appropriate, things start to get interesting like, reverbs, how much compression and so on.
For example, @javiramayo gave feedback on my mix - "Why all this compression?". This is subtle and taste, and like you mentioned... subjective. However, he's right in the sense of how to get a mix "breathe" more and not feel choked... but, this is something most of us will spend years on, as well as it is the most difficult part you will ever experience.

The mix I made has very little effects, in fact only the main vox uses auto tune and a UAD Manley Box. Some have mentioned to me about too much "effects" on the lead solo, button fact there is none. I mostly use Fairchild 660s with hardly any compression.

To describe your mix (the best I can), and how it sounded on my calibrated Genelecs, it was like listening to a song coming from an iPhone.
Doesn't this sound strange? It should sound more full, right? From 25hz to 20k.

yes, it sure sounds strange, since I use Yamaha HS monitors and I do have iPhones, and they don't sound like you say to me here. Maybe I have acoustic issues.

I suggest you start with a two-step-rocket (from my experience so far):

1. Remove all plugins and set all levels on every channel at 0 and listen. Just start there and compare to your submitted mix. Where does it sound different? This is where you need to train your ears and get used to.
Take an EQ on the master and sweep around from say 25-300hz slowly. What instruments do you hear? Probably some umpf from the kick and bass at 25-120hz, right? Where's the details from the kick and bass so it actually cuts through the mix, the attack and definition?
When does the snare comes in? The bottom and "the meat" should come in at 200-250hz maybe? You get the idea...

2. Gain stage (disable all channels).
When you get the idea of where instruments comes in on certain frequencies, start wherever you want (all of us does it different) - but a suggestion could be with the drums. Start with the kick to where you think it sounds good and then add all other aspects of the drums, one by one at the time. Don't even bother to use plugins yet, they will become handy later on when more instruments are playing and you start notice rumble between the kick and bass.

Hope this helps! Cheers

Thanks for your help, and everyone else contributions ! Im still playing with this mix.

[White Punk OD]

r2 by everyone -- great work, strong improvements, good luck!

after the deadline, I think I can reveal what I could do so far.
less vocal distortion, less dominant drums and bass. still some of that. more overheads, hopefully, nicer sound of cymbals and hihat.
(there is still an artifact at 0:52, a short 740Hz ringing from the "Leslie" simulator on guitar trk 29, can be edited out next year..)
It is a loud vintage "band" version, around -10.5LUFS, and would need a real mastering engineer for some issues in the subs and extreme highs.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PB3BGk ... sp=sharing - have fun
(R1 version is in posting #87, you could not make that so loud with the same simple chain without sounding muffled. new version is only better in terms of louder. biggest change is boost of git-29, and less saturation on vocals, that comes back with the brickwalling anyway, but would have been unbearable without the fine-tuning. also, reverbs are coming forward a bit much with the loudness. I did not even use side-chaining for this song.)

Blang did a very good version, but this is the notorious snare of the current era, that is quite sharp, and competes with the sibilance in the vocals, so both might come a bit darker for my taste.
I did not want to create such a snare sound in my mix. but it is a very interesting idea, can we make the song more up-to-date with this?

--- update
next issue: get that kick more steady.

so I used a 4-band limiter, wired it together all with free plugins. x-overs at 81, 465, 3500 Hz; slopes at 84,84,36 dB/Oct.
for the band-split, it uses CrossOver by www.rs-met.com
beware - for the versatility and steep separation, it has also insane phase-shifts, but it is based on a Linkwitz-Riley, so it sums up quite coherently.
the 4 limiters are SN05G.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QmwEEf ... sp=sharing the wiring looks like this.

the bass was also corrected a bit because it was very uneven. I added bx-townhouse and a little EQ correction for the subs.
some work on the overhead & room bus, e.g. shortened the sustain on high frequencies (cymbals) with nvelope.
trackspacer technique to make the vocals sit deeper in the mix.

** https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vJbVJY ... sp=sharing ** LATEST VERSION