Mix Challenge

I'm sorry. I didn't see the note about no white spaces in the Rules and Guidelines. I will take note of this for the future...

Thanks for your time and effort.

I posted this on discord as well but wasn't sure how active it is so... I just wanted to make sure I am using the forum webpage correctly. Regarding the mix challenge, Am I supposed to hold off on giving mix feedback? "Post #000 -- Mix Round 2: Global Feedback and Round 2 Participant Announcement"

Just spitballing here but... Hope this is the appropriate palce for this post. I see some confusion regarding the mix challenge rules. It can be overwhelming for newcomers who are also familiarizing themselves with general forum rules, making it easy to overlook important information. While I appreciate the effort already invested in this site, I recommend possibly creating a couple of YouTube videos to help new visitors navigate the rules more easily—one for the mix challenge and another for the forum in general. These could be chaptered for each point or formatted as a series of searchable shorts with an index of links to accompany the written rules. I understand this would require quite a bit of additional work from the Admin(s), but it could help prevent headaches and frustrations in the future. A hurdle; however, there could be language barriers making this idea not worht it.. Like I said, just spitballing.

amtown wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 07, 2024 14:20 CEST

...Regarding the mix challenge, Am I supposed to hold off on giving mix feedback? "Post #000 -- Mix Round 2: Global Feedback and Round 2 Participant Announcement"

Has been answered on Discord - just for completeness sake:
You can give feedback, if you want to. However, feedback during the first Mix Round is usually not a thing to prevent influencing others and maybe scaring off (especially new) participants to be like "whoops, I did a mistake... got to re-upload".

amtown wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 07, 2024 14:49 CEST

Just spitballing here but... Hope this is the appropriate palce for this post. I see some confusion regarding the mix challenge rules. It can be overwhelming for newcomers who are also familiarizing themselves with general forum rules, making it easy to overlook important information.

This is why each multi-track Mix Pack has a set of TXT files. One of them being the "TL;DR Rules.txt", for the very purpose of scenarios like "I didn't know Rule ABC existed" or "rules are too much".

amtown wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 07, 2024 14:49 CEST

While I appreciate the effort already invested in this site, I recommend possibly creating a couple of YouTube videos to help new visitors navigate the rules more easily—one for the mix challenge and another for the forum in general. These could be chaptered for each point or formatted as a series of searchable shorts with an index of links to accompany the written rules. I understand this would require quite a bit of additional work from the Admin(s), but it could help prevent headaches and frustrations in the future. A hurdle; however, there could be language barriers making this idea not worht it.. Like I said, just spitballing.

The TL;DR:
Was "taken into consideration" many years ago already (see Rule Book in long form). However, time constraints are a thing. There are only so many hours in the day.

@Mister Fox thanks for taking the time to respond! Yes, if we just had a few more hrs in the day.

Hi All,

When I don't make the Final 15 I like to go back and listen to the mixes that made the final cut in order to try and figure out what they did in their mixes that I didn't. I also like to have a quick look over the processing used.

I was surprised to see that for MC102 one of the mixes that made the final cut used the following on the mixbus:

all tracks are summed with the Neve summing extension in LUNA, Pro-MB, outboard SSL comp, Kazroq green, UAD Studer 800 tape and Master Plan.

That mixbus uses three compressors and a mastering limiter. Now, I don't want this to come across as "sour grapes" or to imply that the person using this selection of plug-ins "cheated", but I'm curious as to where something like this sits in regards to the "Thin Line" regarding pre-mastering.

In my case, I chose to use no compression on the mixbus even though I would usually mix into a hardware compressor and check the mix using an additional limiter. I don't think this was the reason why my mix didn't make the final cut, but I do think that using a mastering limiter improves the overall sound of the mix by bringing up detail, etc.

I realise that the "Thin LIne" is a difficult issue but if this is a mixing competition, and not a mixing and pre-mastering competition (as the rules suggest) then we might need more guidance on mixbus processing.

Cheers!

Yeah, this is a really tricky topic, and I am thinking about / working on a total redo of the rule book Addendum: Summing Bus Treatment. It's not as to-the-point as it could be.


Looking at the mix description - it also depends on how much was actually processed, which wasn't further commented on. It could have been just "kissing -1,00dB to -2,00dB of gain reduction" per device, or the device could have been mostly bypassed. This wasn't documented by @Christoph_K (with MC102 post #111). I have to assume that it was just minimal processing... for flavor.

This is supported by the signal analysis with a the PLR (Peak-to-Loudness) range value of 16,33 LU, and the Loudness Range is about 5,0 LU, compared to a max LUFS ILk of -17,7 LUFS ILk and max dBTP value of -1,37dBTP. Although, it does feel a bit squashed while taking a quick listen (perceived - due to how strong the drums are processed), but it fits the premise and task. Plus the transients are definitely there.

The general understanding with such setups is "summing glue", which the Fabfilter Pro-MB and later the Studer A800 tape also hint at. Actually a normal process with modern pop/rock music. (as in: running at least a summing bus compression, or a tape simulation, etc - to bring things "more upfront").



I'm not the mix engineer - so I can't further comment on what was done with the mix.

Neither am I the Song Provider - maybe he likes the general idea, but he would still like to see / hear some adjustments in a certain direction before he makes a final decision.



Finding the fine line between "your mix must be able to stand on it's own and work on all playback mediums" and "do not finalize (master)/loudness adjust" is not an easy task - I can definitely attest to that.

cpsmusic wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 18, 2025 07:00 CET

Hi All,

When I don't make the Final 15 I like to go back and listen to the mixes that made the final cut in order to try and figure out what they did in their mixes that I didn't. I also like to have a quick look over the processing used.

I was surprised to see that for MC102 one of the mixes that made the final cut used the following on the mixbus:

all tracks are summed with the Neve summing extension in LUNA, Pro-MB, outboard SSL comp, Kazroq green, UAD Studer 800 tape and Master Plan.

That mixbus uses three compressors and a mastering limiter. Now, I don't want this to come across as "sour grapes" or to imply that the person using this selection of plug-ins "cheated", but I'm curious as to where something like this sits in regards to the "Thin Line" regarding pre-mastering.

In my case, I chose to use no compression on the mixbus even though I would usually mix into a hardware compressor and check the mix using an additional limiter. I don't think this was the reason why my mix didn't make the final cut, but I do think that using a mastering limiter improves the overall sound of the mix by bringing up detail, etc.

I realise that the "Thin LIne" is a difficult issue but if this is a mixing competition, and not a mixing and pre-mastering competition (as the rules suggest) then we might need more guidance on mixbus processing.

Cheers!

Hey, just wanted to chime in quickly on my mixbus treatment. All of the mentioned instances just do veeeeery little. the kazroq mostly functions as a tone box (it really is a great one). also masterplan is my goto plugin for the mixbus these days. this may change from time to time but I really like what it is doing. Mixing and mastering these days are much less distinguishable then back then. And if it sounds good it is good. I really don't care how I get there and I think it does not matter at all.

Mixing and mastering these days are much less distinguishable then back then. And if it sounds good it is good. I really don't care how I get there and I think it does not matter at all.

Yes, and I agree completely, but it's just how we reconcile this with the rule book and the "This is a mix challenge, NOT a mixing and (pre)mastering challenge" guideline.

Cheers!

cpsmusic wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 18, 2025 10:52 CET

Yes, and I agree completely, but it's just how we reconcile this with the rule book and the "This is a mix challenge, NOT a mixing and (pre)mastering challenge" guideline.
Cheers!

Yeah, and I will quit this game as soon as it becomes completely incompatible with the real life.

I remember Andrew Scheps who once in an interview said something like this:
"The only thing that matters is what comes out of the speakers. And nobody cares about how you got there."