Mix Challenge

Hey Fox, yeah I'm working on my submission. I'm going a bit late, but got an idea yesterday and it's on its way

@TrojakEW I can see what you want to say, basically that the genre is too restrictive in style, and that being creative is incompatible with satisfying the SWC rules. I'm of the opinion that, when you are not a fan of a genre, you won't distinguish tracks and artists and they will all sound the same. It happens to me with genres I'm not used to, I feel you.

But still, every genre has its "rules", and of course if you change some of those, the genre will change. And I can see why the SWC has to be "restrictive" in that sense. In the end, you need to establish some baseline to evaluate from. In this case, an important characteristic of the genre is its speed - you just can't produce DnB with less than 165BPM (and even there, most of the material that slow is Jungle or experimental/minimal). Also, usually you have to take into account this music is mostly "designed" to be played on a club, or at least, on a mix, where it will have to interact (blend, get mixed) with other tracks in the genre, and that shapes the track structures (intros and outros to blend in and out, 8 and 16 bar basic blocks). It depends on how much you know and like the genre, that you see those things as restrictions to your creativity or just as the genre identity.

TBH, if your track does not follow the "genre rules", it's OK, you can be as creative as you want - but then, the track is not on that subgenre. That may interfere with the SWC rules, or with the opinion and votes of the participants. If you are submitting a prog rock track to a country challenge, yeah, they are both played with guitars and drums and bass, they may have a similar structure, but in the end, it's not country.

I don't want to say your material is bad, just, rules are rules.

Gridlock
174bpm
LUFS -14.1 (TrackS metering)
-14.06 (Youlean online loudness metering)

Host
Cubase Pro 10.5

VSTs
u-he HIVE x13
AudioThing miniBit x4

Fx
SoundToys Decapitator, DevilLoc Deluxe, Microshift, FilterFreak
CamelPhat3
FabFilter Timeless2, Saturn
ValhallaRoom
Tone2 Akustix, Warmverb
iZotope Ozone8
IK TrackS Stealth Limiter, Metering

Includes a drum loop from Noiiz DnB Horizon, sliced diced and mangled in several ways
Additional drum sounds from Steinberg Groove Agent SE
Car sounds from Steinberg's Engine Roar soundpack

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I've just finished creating a supplementary/an addendum for the Songwriting Competition. A global thread with "Music Maps", BPM Charts and a couple of Wikipedia Articles as starting point for reading up on a topic/genre you might not be familiar with.

You can always find this particular thread in the Rule Books section:
Songwriting Competition - Addendum: Music Maps and BPM Charts


Please enjoy

Let's see if we can offer kick off the new "SWC game mechanics", by giving some feedback, some hints for possible improvements, and allowing the participant to edit one's production.

Doc Jon wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 23, 2020 00:49 CEST

Gridlock
174bpm

...

VSTs
u-he HIVE x13
AudioThing miniBit x4

...

I've just listened to "Gridlock". This is exactly what the premise asked for - and it even comes with cheesy Engine Roar sounds. I like it. You also did go for a nearly "One Synth only" type of challenge (well - you did use two synths in a plethora of instances).

A couple of things to consider:

• I would maybe add a crash cymbal at the following timestamps: 0:27min, definitely 1:12min, 1:56min and 2:17min, maybe also 0:51min, 1:34min and 2:40min (although that one is questionable). Hint: crash + subtle flanger so that things don't sound too clean and "cookie cutter"
• the hats are a grooving element, they should be a slight bit more noticeable
• this might sound "cheesy", but rides with a 4/4 beat, for example from 2:17min until the end of this section, might add more tension
• maybe a slightly more "bite" with the reese (as in, maybe add an automated filter on occasion, and add some more distortion to the high frequency band) - but this is a matter of taste

I need to listen on bigger speakers or better headphones, but there is definitely movement in the low-end going on that is more "felt" than heard. This could break out a little bit more on occasion. But music making is highly subjective. I definitely like that 8-bit breakdown section.

Great production, great starting point. The rest is down fine-tuning.
And since the overhauled rules now encourage that... you can do so until the deadline has been reached!



I'm really curious about all other entries now.

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 22, 2020 18:06 CEST

And from what I heard from you since you're on the community, you are definitely capable of that.

That is good music to my ears but I know myself and I know this is not true . But thank you.
I think that you should also think about kind of malus points at the end of voting, you as virtual client (or some guest that know more about chosen genre). Subtract those points from production based if it follow the selected genre and also theme. From my experience most of us are usually bit confused about style and genre and we to not take this in account during voting or we do it based on wrong idea.

Jorgeelalto wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 23, 2020 00:46 CEST

@TrojakEW I can see what you want to say, basically that the genre is too restrictive in style, and that being creative is incompatible with satisfying the SWC rules. I'm of the opinion that, when you are not a fan of a genre, you won't distinguish tracks and artists and they will all sound the same. It happens to me with genres I'm not used to, I feel you.

Yes that is almost what I think. I do not have any preferred style when we are talking about making it (not listening) so those sub sub genres make it a lot of harder to be creative for someone not knowing the style. It is not about not fan of genre it is about knowing all details that limit the genre. Even listening to examples doesn't help to know all the rules regarding genre. So I usually trying to implement basic principle and then going crazy about the rest.



Now I'm not sure about posting my track for this round. I wasn't working on it since our discussion because looks like I really miss the genre and produced another hybrid as I usually do.

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 23, 2020 09:10 CEST

I think that you should also think about kind of malus points at the end of voting, you as virtual client (or some guest that know more about chosen genre). Subtract those points from production based if it follow the selected genre and also theme.

I will think about this, but I would say that the "bonus point mechanic" is already adding a lot to the overall mix.

TrojakEW wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 23, 2020 09:10 CEST

Now I'm not sure about posting my track for this round. I wasn't working on it since our discussion because looks like I really miss the genre and produced another hybrid as I usually do.

Why not do it this way - and to test out the updated SWC game mechanics:
Post two versions... one with your original idea (140bpm) and one that you bumped up to 160bpm. Ask for feedback, start a conversation, edit your entry as needed/desired until the deadline has been reached.

If you're new to this genre and want to learn/improve - I think this is the best thing you can do as of this moment. Remember - you basically already win the game by joining. Everything else is bonus.

This is what the Songwriting Competition is all about.

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 23, 2020 01:21 CEST

Let's see if we can offer kick off the new "SWC game mechanics", by giving some feedback, some hints for possible improvements, and allowing the participant to edit one's production.

I've just listened to "Gridlock"...

A couple of things to consider...

Thank you so much for the comments Mister Fox
I do like this new idea of feedback during the submission process, always good to get an independant opinion and all your thoughts are very valid and useful
I have made a few changes along the lines you suggested and replaced the file on Soundloud
I have edited my original submission post to add FabFilter Saturn in the Fx list and Groove Agent SE as the source of the extra drum (cymbal) sounds

Many thanks, and looking forward to more submissions!

Jon

Here's my participation, it's called Afterburner (thanks Fox for extending the deadline, it allowed me to get a better sound overall):

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing



(Last edit: 28/08 - Reduced loudness to -14LUFS, made halftime part shorter)

A bit about the track:
- I don't really know what it is. I guess it goes more to the Neuro side, especially with the drums. The second "drop" would be halfstep neuro. I guess Fox knows the exact name of the genre. The thing is, the "low" melodic parts with the pads sound more like Total Science/Breakage tracks, which is what I'm more used to make nowadays, and maybe they don't really fit the main sounds (?). Anyways, I really like the result.

- It has a club oriented structure (simple, with easy to mix breakdowns), but is short enough so that in a videogame it wouldn't get too boring. There are some things I did to keep it a bit interesting, including varying the percussions (changing between shakers, hi hats, and cymbals), adding section breaks with toms, and varying the main drum pattern (not too much, though, because then you lose the rhythmical repetition).

- I got up to -11.3 LUFS, as reported by TDR Limiter No6. Without any limiting, it was already hitting -13 LUFS, and I needed to control some peaks here and there, so it got a bit loud, but that's really something to expect from these genres. I don't like -5 LUFS neuro, but I always go a bit over -8 LUFS, I think it's part of the genre aesthetic. OK, this is fixed now. I'm hitting -14 LUFS as read by TDR Limiter No6. I won't lie, the limiter not working on the peaks is making me a bit anxious , but well, I did it. Now, how does it sound without hitting -8 LUFS at the loudest parts of the tracks? That's something I wanna know...

- I have used Surge for the basses (with Trash, to get the distorted sound - you can't make DnB without Trash, apparently) and Wavestation for the pads. For mixing, I have only used Neutron and Reaplugs, Valhalla Delay and Vintage Verb, and a few other utilities. Nothing special apart from Trash. My DAW of choice is Reaper. The first bass sound are two saw waves, ring modulating, with ones pitch going up with time (which results in the pitch up effect, and the vocal/growl sound too), distorted until I got a more aggresive tone. It also has some multiband pitch shifting to get a bit wider. The second is just saw waves unison with several oscillators tuned in different octaves, where I play with the Sync parameter in one of them. In this case, mixing the pitch up with the pitch wheel alongside the sync modulation results in that "lift" sound.

- As for samples, I've got a Neuro sample pack from Loopmasters, from where I have gotten the main drum hits (sorry, I'm not the kind of person to synthesize my drums) and other DnB and breaks packs for the percussions and hats. Some samples are chopped and reordered (perc loops), whereas others are taken as-is (risers, noises...).

- The overall mix is a bit meh, This time the problem is not with the bass but with the high frequencies. I used Limiter No6's high frequency limiter in the master but it's still fairly bright. Not much more on the master, I think some stereo control with Ozone and a bit of limiting with it, too. Also, there is heavy sidechain from the kick to the bass bus, and also from the snare to the melodic parts (much softer).

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 23, 2020 13:09 CEST

Why not do it this way - and to test out the updated SWC game mechanics:
Post two versions... one with your original idea (140bpm) and one that you bumped up to 160bpm. Ask for feedback, start a conversation, edit your entry as needed/desired until the deadline has been reached.

It is not just about changing tempo. There are some parts that I made with this tempo in mind (orchestral parts) and they will sound weird in high tempo so I will post only original 140bpm track without changing anything.
*********************************************************************************
So here is my weird hybrid track. Idea was since the theme is Video Game Soundtrack, to add some "epicness" to track. I have chosen proper name for track that have two meaning now. One of them is that I do not have enough bpm for genre.

Listened to some examples posted to get idea about patterns for beat and made something similar. I used 4 different instruments not just for layering but to use different sounds from those kits (Drum Lab, Klusterkitt Konstruktor, Action Strikes and DM-307) to create few patterns. It was nightmare to edit it since every instrument have different midi mapping. Since I do like percussion I added some more rumble at the end with Damage Armageddon kit.Then added some other electronic stuff, designed some sounds in intro and made few different parts in track to make it more "evolving". I used Metropolis Ark to add some soundtrack style noise in there.

Made using FL Studio 20.6
Instruments used:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1x NI Drum Lab
1x Klusterkitt Konstruktor
1x NI Action Strikes
1x Output Substance
1x Heavyocity Damage
1x Heavyocity DM-307
2x Heavyocity Aeon
1x Heavyocity Evolve Mutation 2
3x Samplelogic Arpology
1x Samplelogic Thundersprings
1x 8Dio Hybrid Tools 1
1x 8Dio Hybrid Tools Neo
1x 8Dio Blendstrumnet Strange Pulses
3x Orchestral Tools - Metropolis Ark 1
1x Red Room Audio Symphonic Sketchapd
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Used Effects:
1x Pro Audio DSM V3
2x Izotope Neutron 3 Equalizer
1x Izotope Ozone 9 Advanced
1x Unfiltered Audio Triad
10x VSTzOne Arx One
1x VSTzOne Stratum
4x Fruity Parametric EQ 2
1x Fruity Balance
1x Fruity Peak Controller
1x Noveltech Character
2x Noveltech Vocal Enhancer
1x Izotope Neutron 3
1x NI Guitar Rig 5
1x NI Replika XT
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics:
Max momentary loudness -10.1 LUFS
Max short-tem loudness -12.1 LUFS
Integrated loudness -14.1 LUFS
Loudness range 4.8 LU
True peak L -1.10dB
True peak R -1.13dB
DC offset L 0% (-173.8dB)
DC offset R 0% (-164.7dB)

My SWC036 Submission:



DAW: Reaper
BPM: 175

VST:
Steven Slate Drums 5.5
Serum
DS Thorn
Arturia Pigments
Arturia Analog Lab 4
D16 LuSH-101
Kontakt
OrganicSamples Organic Voices Vol.1
Kinetic Toys
Output Movement

FX:
PA bx_bassdude
PA Vertigo VSC-2
PA Vertigo VSM-3
PA bx_cleansweep Pro
PA bx_console SSL 4000E
PA bx_console SSL 4000G
PA Schoeps Mono Upmix
PA SPL TwinTube
PA BlackBox HG-2
PA bx_control V2
Soundtoys Decapitator
Soundtoys FilterFreak2
Soundtoys Echoboy
Kilohearts Compressor
Kilohearts Pitch Shifter
AIR Talkbox
MCDSP Futzbox
TDR Vos SlickEQ GE
Fabfilter Pro-Q3
Waves L1
Waves RBass
Waves RVox
Waves Ovox
Waves RCompressor
Valhalla Vintage Verb
Izotope Neutron 3

PA bx_Townhouse
Izotope Ozone 9
Youlean LoudnessMeter
Voxengo SPAN

Samples from Splice:
Vocal Chops, Sweeper, Riser
2 drum sample (drum layering)