Mix Challenge

great tracks everyone! i would’ve loved to throw my hat in for this one, but sadly the end-of-semester shuffle got me.
a bit of background: when i was a child i was in the whole dancesport scene, primarily competing in international latin. while i couldn’t submit, i’m at least glad i can use my weird niche knowledge to leave you all some meaningful feedback.

i will be evaluating tracks based off of the following criteria:

1. composition. fairly straight forward: what i found effective about the piece, what i didn’t find as effective, as well as some questions i had while listening to it.
2. functionality. i’ll do my best to match your song to the dance it’s most appropriate for. i had a couple of moments where i needed to consult with a few ballroom dancing friends/family if my selection was the right choice. based off of that selection, i’ll evaluate how rhymically appropriate the piece is for that particular dance.

György Becsei

• what dance fits best? waltz (”slow waltz”)
• functionality: this is a waltz with a capital W. would be lovely as a show/exhibition piece, with the way the tempo picks up.
• composition: this is an absolutely gorgeous and lush piece. the orchestration on this is rich. my only complaint is that i feel as if it could be a little shorter? from 2:40 on i kept expecting this song to end, only for additional sections to be introduced (not sure if this is a compositional choice though!)

Esteve Corbera
(as an aside: since this is a style i used to primarily dance in, i do recognize that i’ll be looking over your piece with a much more discerning eye. despite this, i’ll do my best to keep my feedback balanced with everyone else’s pieces.)

• what dance fits best? salsa (on the slower end)/cha-cha. this was quite a subject of debate between me and another person i was consulting with when typing songs: i had insisted this was a cha-cha (based off of the cowbell rhythm at the end) but the other party insisted it was a salsa. i’m leaving it slashy because it could honestly work for both dances. contrary to what folks mentioned in their feedback, i personally don’t hear “samba” from this piece since it’s missing that distinct syncopated “bounce.”
• functionality: tying into the point above, it’s a bit too rhythmically ambiguous for me as a “ballroom dance” song. it’s definitely something you can dance to, but what dance you can do to it is up in the air. i’d love to know what you personally were going for with this one, aside from what other folks have typed your song as. if you were trying to go for a salsa feel, having a clave tapping out a 3-2 or 2-3 rhythm (2-3 example on wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Son_clave.ogg) would help disambiguate it immensely. if a cha-cha, it would’ve helped to keep the cowbell throughout the entire piece.
• composition: props again for doing the sole latin ballroom piece; i got slapped with a whole bunch of nostalgia listening to this. this is an incredibly fun piece to listen to; you’ve really captured the “jam” atmosphere. i adore the lead clarinet soloing, though i kinda wish that other instruments got their fun solo moment too (the piano, more of that low brass, maybe even the guitar?) it’d definitely help to break a bit of the monotony near the end.

A Future in Noise & alavault

• what dance fits best? waltz (”slow waltz”)
• functionality: it’s very clearly in three, which is what you want for a waltz. however, the driving piano lines and the hi-hat in chorus make the “waltz” rhythm a bit ambiguous. that 1-2-3 feel of a waltz still needs to be emphasized, and those parts are giving me a straight “1-and-2-and-3-and” instead.
• composition: you took a risk and i honestly think it paid off. i honestly like this rock take on a waltz; i don’t think all ballroom music needs to stick to a certain archetype, they just have to fit rhythmically into the dance you want to do. i do enjoy the word painting that goes in with this piece (particularly with the way the glockenspiel will appear and drop out based off of the lyrics;) i think it’s extremely clever. i wanted to know from a lyrical standpoint, is there any particular reason why the verses are in French and the choruses are in Swedish? is it a nod to your collaboration? (i don’t want to be rude and write it off as “unnecessary.”)

Arelem

• what dance fits best? waltz (”slow waltz”)
• functionality: it’s a waltz you can easily waltz to. kudos for getting it exactly to a competition 90!
• composition: i think it’s a lovely sounding piece. the piece is titled “incandesence,” yet i would love to hear a little more “heat” from this piece to match it -- more “aggressive” articulations from the strings as the piece goes on, maybe the addition of a percussive element? (choice is yours!) also this might be a personal thing, but i think the piano you used for this piece might be a bit bright for this? i like the way it cuts through the strings, though.

i’ll admit this was a very tough one to judge. in general, most of what drove my votes was how effective i felt the composition was, but for close calls i ended up having to factor in “functionality.” here are my votes:

colorado weeks wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 01, 2022 16:14 CET

“... the driving piano lines and the hi-hat in chorus make the “waltz” rhythm a bit ambiguous ...”

You're right. This musical piece is meant for real skilled dancers.

colorado weeks wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 01, 2022 16:14 CET

“I do enjoy the word painting that goes in with this piece ...”

Thank you.

colorado weeks wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 01, 2022 16:14 CET

“I wanted to know from a lyrical standpoint, is there any particular reason why the verses are in French and the choruses are in Swedish?”

Since it is a little bit easier for me to pronounce words in Swedish than in English, and a little bit easier for @alavault, I guess (?), to speak/sing in French, we used our native languages this time. And also, the poem was written in French (and choruses in Swedish). And up to the point where it is mandatory to always use the invasive English language, I will allow myself to use my native language now and then.

You could say it's a nod to the collaboration, also.

Thanks for your feedback!

A friendly reminder:
We're in the final 24 hours to submit your feedback and cast your vote.


Please don't let yourself be put at a disadvantage by not participating. The Songwriting Competition lives from the given feedback towards each other. Outside feedback is welcome, of course (a thank you for everyone that did this so far).

It's the 04th January 2022, 05:45 (UTC+1/CET) - the Voting Period has officially ended.

All participants have submitted some final feedback, we therefore have 0 disqualifications.


I will post the results within the next 2-3 days and take "late feedback" into consideration.
(this is not an automated process)


Please have an eye on this thread

Since we only had 4 entries in December, I'd like to round out the game a bit. But I'd also like to thank those that added additional feedback, like @colorado weeks and @alavault. As usual, my focus is more on the technical side of things than on the overall production. We have three Waltz-type production, and one Samba. Wish to have seen more productions, but the end of the year madness has also been a thing.


As usual, I am listening to the production on cheap PC speakers (2" drivers) and Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro Headphones. And I've had all of your productions on loop.



A Future in Noise - Valse De Nyår (feat alavault)

This went through a couple of iterations. And every time, this waltz evolved in a good way. I still think that the vocals are a bit drowned in the production (headphones, large drivers), especially the chorus vocals. But compared to the initial version, it's more rounded out. I'd raise the vocals just a bit more, and experiment with the reverb in each section. Different topic on small speakers, where the French vocals actually feel a bit over-compressed and while the chorus vocals are cutting through better, they are still a bit dry.

While I am not a fan of the drum samples (and room for the whole set), the guitar sections are really great and add the final touches to this pop ballad. In fact, you did manage to invoke that "you've been in this live dance event for way too long now, your ears tire" type feeling. That deserves bonus points, if we had a category for that

Great production overall, has been fitting to the holidays even. Who knows, maybe I'll reach out to you two for a future Mix(ing) Challenge) (next Fall/Winter Season).



Arelem - Incandescence

Another waltz, and the slowest production of all submitted. I really like the minimalist concept. Great for dancing and dreaming for sure, even though it cuts off a bit abruptly (personal opinion, in fact, this is the shortest production this month). The mix also drastically improved compared to the initial version. On headphones (large drivers), it sounds more rounded out. It also works so much better on small speakers now.

I'd still go a bit more in-depth on the mix. For example, compress the piano a bit more, and after that, bring it up just a bit. Then I would move it more to the right in the stereo field so that things do not feel super centered, maybe even roll off some upper mids to make it just a tiny bit more "soft" and mellowed out. Else, the piano feels a bit thin. Again, personal opinion.

The hardest part is still to find the correct room for all sampled instruments, to let this sound like a small chamber orchestra. But you've done really well.



becsey gyorgy - Letzte Nacht (Last Night)

Our third waltz this month, and even some interesting speed ramps (which... would throw you off while dancing, unless you know the song at heart, and even then it's hard to keep up). As usual, showing your wizardry with sample handling and finding the right sets for the task.

The thing that stands out here as well, is finding the right "room sound" for everything so that things doesn't feel out of place. For example, the beginning really tells you "wait, that is not a real orchestra"; even though BBC Symphony Orchestra definitely is (this is most apparent if you're using headphones). What I do like, is the solo violin. Embertone has some really nice treasures in their line-up. I should take another look.

Great production as usual. Mix wise, this one feels a bit dull on headphones. On small speakers it's a completely different issue of course. Here it feels okay - although then the percussion section is drowning a bit. Even if the overall concept is more aimed to be a "large dancing hall", you'd still feel the power of the percussion section. I would have actually also loved to hear more string staccatos towards the end of the production, to introduce a certain "push" and "heat" to the end of the night (might as well go all out, no?). The sustained strings really overpowered things.

Rest assured, unless you work with orchestras on the daily, handling orchestra samples or maybe even mix and match, then place everything in the same environment, is not an easy task (speaking form experience). Maybe we might have a chance in 2022 to experiment in this field as part of a Mix(ing) Challenge.



Esteve Corbera - Tots a ballar

What a change of pace with a Samba this time. And I'd say this has been your best entry yet. Great selection of instruments and feel with what Reason 12 has been giving you (loops wise), I really love the overall groove. The room sound is a matter of taste, but I get the idea to have a more club-like feel. Stone walls, very reflective, etc.

Compared to the first mix, I definitely hear more of the bass (especially on headphones, where it's a perfect mix! And it's subtle on small speakers but still loud enough to know "it's there"), but then the rhythm trumpet (higher frequency, the left panned one) is drowning out bit half-way in. If you are going for a "live gig" and brass section basically trying to top each other, then you'd definitely hear this one more as part of the whole sound cluster.

There is a lot(!) going on in your mix (in a good way). Like... anybody heard that there is also a palm muted guitar? I noticed it after my third listen. If you want to let it cut a bit through the mix, maybe raise it just a small bit, and/or add some 3,3kHz (2dB max, else you change the tone too much). It's subtle, it should add to the rhythm, not distract. The hand-percussions are a matter of taste. In pop, everything goes. On stage, this might be a bit panned too far.

Please keep it up for future games.




Even though the participation has been low in December, you all did outstanding work in my opinion. Mixing is always subjective of course, but you all understood the theme and premise, and I really enjoyed the entries. Which brings us to the votes - and yes, this wasn't easy this month. Sadly I can't give everyone a top spot - second place is even interchangeable for me (I did opt for the way I did, because one production was a bit more interesting overall).

Ladies and Gentlemen, here are the results of Songwriting Competition 52

The winners podium consists of:

1. @A Future in Noise (50 pts) -- Sole Winner
2. @becsei_gyorgy (48 pts)
3. @Arelem (48 pts) / @EsteveCorbera (48 pts)

Apologies for the waiting time, this is not an automated process.

<4 participant rule is not in use (staff comments and votes, my vote would count as bonus/tie breaker)
We have 0 disqualifications (due to lack of feedback)
We have 0 withdrawn entries
We have 0 votes after the deadline - therefore no -5 points penalty
We have 2 users that tied

• A Future in Noise has 2x10pts, 0x9pts, 1x8pts -- becsey_gyorgy has 1x10pts, 2x9pts, 0x8pts -- not counting balance votes, A Future in Noise therefore scores higher

"Sole (License) Winner" rule does apply - 1-position Winners Podium (=< 8 participants prior to the deadline)


STATISTICS SHEET:
Overview of Submissions (PDF - updated: 05-JAN-2022, full sheet)

!

Bonus Info

Short info: I am using Wavelab 10 for batch analysis, then I manually port the CSV export to a Microsoft Excel/Open Office Calc sheet with custom layout (this is not an automated process). As pointed out in this post from SWC047 / July, Wavelab has different tolerances for dBTP max analysis compared to tools like iZotope RX, Youlean Loudness Meter, NUGEN Audio VisLM, etc. To find a common ground, I've implemented "allowed tolerances" (just like with the Mix Challenge). These are based upon allowed offsets mentioned in the white papers for EBU R128 and ITU-R BS.1770-4. Since Statistic Sheets are here to stay (for both the Mix Challenge and Songwriting Competition), I will follow up this topic with an official Rule Addendum post sometime during Q1 2022 (see Rule Book section). If possible, always stay below the tolerances. As usual, I did list/analyze alternative releases (MP3s and FLAC). If you've submitted your entry in multiple file formats, the statistic sheet will focus on the uncompressed material first (WAV), then FLAC, then MP3. The higher the quality, the less possible loss on bonus points for "Loudness Specs" due to offsets introduced by a used CODEC. In this case, FLAC and MP3 are merely for information purposes.

Here are the results as chart in image form:



Thank you so much for your participation.

EDIT 2022-JAN-07 1:40 UTC+1/CET

As pointed out further down below, the "number juggling" was getting a bit complicated indeed. However, the results do not change (as in, the podium position). If anything, we have three(!) ties if a staff balance vote is added, with one that can't be broken up. Without the balance vote, it's only two ties.

For understanding and transparency purposes. As you can see, less than 6 participants is barely enough to not have any "number juggling "going on. The second scenario also shows an "unbreakable tie", and I would have needed to use a number randomizer to break that up (I opted not to, which is why I originally included @colorado weeks's votes). But since SWC052 had less than 8 participants, we only have a "Sole Winner" situation anyway - and in this case, the end results were clear for the top spot, no matter which route.

You are all winners in my book - but we sadly had way too less participants to open up the podium.




License selection:

We'll now perform with the usual. Selecting licenses is handled in public. Please select one license/company out of the pool (in order of the winners podium) and mention it in this thread, then (important) please get in touch with me (via PM) with your full name, email address and your license selection.

As usual - you're not forced to pick up anything. You can pass and therefore offer more to select for the next person in line (if there is a spot existing / not available for "sole winner" mechanic). Just let all participants/winners/the staff know in a timely manner. Once one company has been selected, it's out of the pool for the next person on the podium.



I re-open the field for talking some more about each others' productions. If things drift a bit too off-topic, please use the General Gossip thread.



See you in in the next challenge!


Songwriting Competition 053 (January 2021) is still in full swing.
Please help spread the word!

Thanks, Mr Fox. I would like to have the Luftrum Lunaris, please. I will sind you a PM.

@Mister Fox ,
Could you be more precise when you say "the drum samples (and room for the whole set)" ?
Thank you !

First of all Congratulations to FutureinNoise and alavault, creating together a good song.

And congrats to Esteve and Arelem, nice job this month too.

@Mister Fox
With all due respect, but referring to the scoring: instead of all kinds of mathematical juggling, the clear rules of the competition should have been followed:

#7: Rules for Voting
• There will be no votes by non-participants.
• if there are less than four (number: 4) participants, the Mix Challenge community staff will step in with additional feedback and a vote.

As there were 4 entries, only the votes of the original participants should have been taken into account (no other people and no staff votes).

I am saying again with the utmost respect that every month keep eye on the rules, they are there to give a secure framework to the competition.

alavault wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 06, 2022 16:51 CET

@Mister Fox ,
Could you be more precise when you say "the drum samples (and room for the whole set)" ?
Thank you !

Sure! I assume the drum set came from Addictive Drums (the snare sound gives me that impression), but I could be wrong. It wasn't listed in the production notes. The thing that stands out is the super aggressive attack (transients) of the snare, the cymbals, and the room sound. I get the idea that this shall feel a bit like a musical or a very cheesy pop production. But this was the thing that kind of threw me off.

Maybe less "punch" on the snare, a bit more rolled-off hats and slightly less bright reverb would do the trick. But it's hard to tell. I can't sit beside you folks and do easy A/B tests.

Hope this helps.

becsei_gyorgy wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 06, 2022 17:47 CET

@Mister Fox
With all due respect, but referring to the scoring: instead of all kinds of mathematical juggling, the clear rules of the competition should have been followed:

But that's the thing, they were. Didn't matter if my vote was applied or not, the podium didn't change, only the amount of ties did.

But you're right, we have a rule set for a reason. The number juggling is getting confusing - always the issue with less than 6 participants. I will update/fix the score sheet within the hour. (EDIT 2022-JAN-07 01:44 UTC+1/CET -- updated the score sheet and explanation)