Mix Challenge

I kindly ask everyone to please take a step back and take a deep breath.


First and foremost, it saddens me that @A Future in Noise has once more withdrawn an entry. I am sorry, but I am slowly getting really annoyed at this. Can't you please wait until I've closed out things at least? Until I posted the final results? This also influences everyone else that invest the time giving you feedback, put you into a ranking, etc.

Now your posts are all gone, non recoverable for me. I did not make notes as they came in (I have been really, really busy behind the scenes! Everything Mix Challenge related! So no 5-minute jobs!). Therefore, we now only have 7(!) entries, not 8. However, in fairness to everyone, I will not shift the Winners Podium.

But this also means, I now have to step in one way or the other to find a way to balance things out. This is extra work I really wanted to avoid. Time that will be withdrawn from something else.



On the topic of what this month was about:

In general: it was about the topic "Loss". May it be a loved one, something that was important to you, personal health struggles, etc. I dedicate every September to "Mental Health". It is scientifically proven that making music helps you cope with difficult situations. It is just that... due to things outside of my control, I couldn't narrow things down this year as I wanted to (and you clearly see that with SWC050 as well).

I just wanted people to just join, write something off of their chest. Yet here we are, having arguments as to "what fits and what doesn't".



Additionally:

This is technically a "full production challenge". The main focus is songwriting of course. But you are also allowed to sound-design, mix and master to your hearts content. In fact, it is highly encouraged even. We want to see you step outside of your comfort zone, push yourself a bit, hear your "final product". And if we hear something that might not work out, this is what the feedback mechanic during the game, and after the game (voting process) is for.

Some of us might definitely be overdoing it a bit, the majority are keeping it very brief. We all have to work on finding a balance. And I'm pretty sure we will down the road.



Now please... we're in the final 24 hours to submit your vote for SWC049.
Let us please drop the arguments, and enjoy the rest of this month's game. Thank you!

Here are my brief comments for this month's entries:

TrojakEW - The Road Not Taken
I like the mood this piece sets from the beginning with the deep percussion. When the vocals come in around the 1:38 mark is when the track gets more interesting for me.

EsteveCorbera - Cami de Retorn
Overly long, and not much happening for long parts of the track. More like an ambient piece to have in the background while doing other activities. When some melodic variation doesn't start until the 3 minute mark (which is half the song), that's too long to wait, by that time I was half expecting the track to be ending, not to be kind of starting.

Fjansenson - Brotes
The use of the charango gives this piece a very unique character. I like the percussion at the beginning. The piano motif gets a bit monotonous as the song progresses, I wish there had been some more variation there. But overall the track sounds great.

Johnny_Fingers - Ocean Full of Sand
I get such vintage feeling from this piece. Just a nice old fashioned folk rock song. Very good job from both vocalists. Drum track feels a bit light, doesn't quite carry the song; I think something more varied on that front would have taken the song to another level.

A Future In Noise - Infestation
I like the build up in the intro from just the guitar accompaniment to the full band.The rhythmic cadence of the melody is a bit unpredictable and hard to follow.

Celiodie - Prayer
Starts with very nice sounds, but gets repetitive after a while. Overly long with not much development throughout.

Canese - Delightful Horror
Very emotive. The title misleads, because it doesn't inspire "horror", at least to me, but I definitely feel the "loss" theme throughout.

GMoneh wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 01, 2021 02:51 CEST

Canese - Delightful Horror
Very emotive. The title misleads, because it doesn't inspire "horror", at least to me, but I definitely feel the "loss" theme throughout.

I think it is interesting title and good choice. Nice oxymoron.

Hi!!! I played the piano in all song!!
I used mi Arturia Mini Lab with the S&S instrument coming with Logic Pro.

Hi everyone!

Here my feedback:

John Henderson
Ocean Full of Sound

The song is beautiful.
I like guitar solos in the songs.
Male voice is nice.
Female voice sounds out of tune

Xil Ayra
Bon Voyage Mon Amie

Nice composition and felling.
The interaction between piano and guitar sounds extrange for me.
The arrangements need more work.
I´m not sure about he piano and keybord sounds choises

Trojan EW
The Road not Taken
Emotional composition
Nice piano sound at the beginning.
Don´t like the Voice synth for the first melody.
The mix between natural piano and this Synth sound doesn´t match for me.
Nice female voice

Steve Corbera
Cami de Retorn
Beautiful introduction sounds and stereo effects and mixing.
Nice Synth sound chosen.
The song reflects its name.
With a main melody it could be much better

Celiodie
Celiodie Prayer

Nice piano sound
Sounds the mercy you mention in your post

Canesse
Delightfull Horror

Beautiful piano played!!
Nice and smooth song
I love it.

1. Canesse
2. Steve Corbera
3. Ceiodie
4. Trojan EW.
5. John Henderson
6. Xil Ayra

It's the 02nd October 2021, 00:50 (UTC+2/CEST) - the Voting Period has officially ended.

Sadly, not all participants have submitted some final feedback, we therefore have 1 disqualification.

I am thinking of a possible solution to the recent argument. I am double checking votes again as well. No more changes anymore from this point out, please!


I will post the results within the next 2-3 days and take "late feedback" into consideration.
(this is not an automated process)


Please have an eye on this thread

fjansenson wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 01, 2021 17:15 CEST

Trojan EW

Please my name is Trojak and not a Trojan horse or something like that.

Johnny_Fingers wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 30, 2021 23:09 CEST

Well, Mr Shakespeare, thanks for entering this story King Lear into our story writing contest. It's fine as far as it goes, but it was written with a bird feather, the penmanship is terrible, and there are ink stains all over it, so it isn't going to get many story writing points.

Is there a way I could get answer to my 2 questions instead of this story that I asked before? I would like to understand your view but without knowing what do you mean it is impossible for me. Here are those questions again. Thank you.

Johnny_Fingers wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 21:42 CEST

Same for the strings, which sound like midi.

What do you mean by it? Because I'm not sure now what "sound like midi" mean.

Johnny_Fingers wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 29, 2021 21:42 CEST

Might also be nice to tone down some of the sound effects that distract from the music.

What sounds effect you mean? Because I do not use any in this track.

Hi everyone,


before I give some additional feedback (probably for the last time for the next couple of months, until the participation drops below 4 again -- so please consider this bonus, not a normality), I'd like to address some of the arguments we had in this game during the voting process.

To me, there was no clear "didn't fit the theme" entry. All eight this month had an own unique spin. The overarching theme was still "Mental Health", and just coping through the help of music. I apologize that there were no clear defined parameters like usual.





However, there was also some unnecessary gross exaggeration on things.

For example, @A Future In Noise went a bit too far with his commentary on "Music that is about selling cars, music that is a tribute to adult videos, music that describes in detail a bakery in Greenland.". Literally, not the case at all. And I've read the documentation for all entries several times, listened to and read the lyrics, etc. Maybe there was an off-comment in the feedback. But I thought we established being objective. Apparently not. It saddens me to see your entry just poof into thin air just because of stupid bickering.

On that behalf, I kindly ask @TrojakEW to maybe hold back a bit from over-analyzing mixes. Especially with the constant commentary on "phase issue this, phase issue that" and how to apparently "fix" it with tools like "Arx One", DrMS, bx_control, etc. Yes, mixing and mastering is also part of this game (as part of the overall presentation). Yes, phase issues can be a huge topic (depends on the issue, really). Mono-playback systems are indeed also still widespread. But these aforementioned correction tools don't need to apply to everything. As long as most content below 150Hz is phase coherent, you can be creative with sound design. The main focus of the game is still songwriting, and getting feedback on what to improve overall. Not go surgical and be like "whoops, you overshot! Better fix that!" or "your track has phase issues", if it clearly doesn't to such an extend as you say it would.


So I'm putting my foot down - also for the sake of future games.

I appreciate what you're doing, @TrojakEW. You have always been that technical since your first game participation. But the last two games were really a bit much, especially for new forum users.

We have a rule set, which is very clear and simplified. Nobody is getting disqualified in the Songwriting Competition unless there was no participation during the voting/feedback process, or an entry has been withdrawn. Everything else is handled through the well explained bonus point mechanic.





Now that this is out of the way... my bonus feedback to all participants. In alphabetical order (participants).


A Future in Noise - Infestation

On first listen, I had some serious David Bowie vibes. After so many months participating, this felt the most complete track you've submitted so far. Is the song about "loss"? Hard to tell for me. I didn't save your documentation, neither can I recover it. But from listening to the lyrics alone, I assume the "Infestation" is straight up loss of joy and energy mainly due to the last 1,5 chaotic years.


Used sounds are always subjective. However, production wise, it definitely needs some better balance to let the guitars cut through the mix better, and find a way to keep the vocals "on top" (as they drown a bit in the arrangement). The acoustic guitars overpower things, while the E-guitars (I don't know what you have used here) could definitely be louder overall. Also, if these are samples, maybe find a way to not let them sound too chopped off. Everything else, is subjective.

You stepped beyond your comfort zone and sang on this production. IF you join with a vocal track in the future, maybe try some more compression to keep your voice stable. And if you can't find a suitable balance between instrumentation and vocals, maybe use an Auto Gain tool to place them (as starting point).

Pity that you have withdran your entry.
.



.
canese - Delightful Horror

A very somber piece this month. One main piano, some strings, reserved percussion work. Letting the instruments speak for themselves. Just sit back, and listen.

There is not much to add in terms of "how to improve the production". It does feel a bit low-mid heavy. It has a certain "Joe Hisaishi" (soundtrack "Hanabi", 1998) to it. If anything, I'd maybe clean up the instruments a bit with proper filtering. But the overall concept works.

Thank you for your entry
.



.
celiodie - Prayer

Another quite somber piano based piece. Very interesting approach, however, the initial jump from "ambient strings and soft piano" to "here I am, main concept (at about 0:33) sadly pull you out of the immersion. Other than that, I definitely understand the concept, the improvisation.

Instrumentation wise, and this is most apparent on small speakers and not balanced headphones, there are instruments that are way too loud. Like bells and certain synths. If I were to mix the production, I'd try to find a way to maybe push the "glass synths" a bit more into the back, and let the piano breathe some more (in fact, maybe pull back a bit on compression). Interesting that you mention a fretless bass. I understand that this is more as "Lowend Support". Would be nice to hear it better on small speakers though (with some saturation trickery).

Other than that, very nice production.
.



.
Esteve Corbera - Cami de Retorn

Well, let me take a wild guess on your favorite musician - the Juno 60 type lead definitely gave it away. Even the overall sound design. Vangelis did create some outstanding ambient music, indeed. I am heavily reminded of my own "coping attempts" with music. Alhtough back in the days, I was not able to have access to such outstanding tools like today ("Reason" wasn't a thing yet, my Kurzweil K2000 had to do).

Overall, very interesting. Definitely Very "Blade Runner" inspired. Which brings me to two major things to point out: a bit too many dissonances with the synths (which comes a bit with the genre, and taste is subjective). and I think all this "mono compatibility"/phase talk is starting to affect our participants. This production sadly feels a bit "narrow". Not everything needs to be overly corrected. But overall - interesting approach.


I am curious what you come up with in future songwriting games.
.



.
GMoneh (Xil Arya) - Bon Voyage, Mon Amie

Our first entry this month, and coping with the loss of a a beloved family member. I do like the overall concept. It has a bit of a musical or cabaret show feeling. Which also brings me to the point why people wrote "it sounds like a MIDI". This is very 1980s "Synthesizer Demo" sounding. Unintentionally, but it's just like how that sound was back then. Overall, it works. It feels like a bombastic "good bye", indeed.

And even though "taste is subjective", one thing I'd change is going for a different drum set from Addictive Drums 2. One that is less compressed and more "warm" sounding (which has influence on the overall tone of your production). The piano is very pop music like (processing). But it works in this context. The drums are just what throw me off a bit.

Bonus technical info... the MP3 file doesn't properly play to the end in certain players (Media Player Classic on Windows for example has a hiccup, and drops the last 5 seconds on replay).
.



.
fjansenson - Brotes

Very interesting approach at this month's theme (loss), as in being "at a loss as a whole" and trying to "grow into things" (cope). This is stretching it a bit, but to me it's fine. It being the shortest production this month, doesn't mean it is boring. It definitely gets the desired feeling across, a blend of relaxed and ordered, drifting into chaos ever so often. I also like the spoken voice with the radio effect. But I do wish it would just be a bit longer.

Mix wise, the percussions were really subdued. Same goes for the Upright Bass (Logic Pro has an Upright Bass in EXS? Completely forgot that!). So should you ever go back to this production, some EQ work and volume adjustments are in order.

All in all, very good first entry! Welcome to the forum - I hope we'll hear more from you in future games.
.



.
Johnny Fingers (John Henderson) - Ocean Full Of Sand

A nice Indie Rock production that has some very good ideas (production wise), and a lovely story (lyrics). I apologize that I didn't comment any sooner (or anyone rather), because there are some things that could definitely be improved upon.

From my subjective feeling, I'd use a different drum kit yet again (a more warm/"rounded" one). This feels like either Logic stock, or Toontrack EZ Drummer? Often, a drum kit can make or break a production. In this case... I'd either treat it different, or use a less pre-processed setup. Then the other part is the voice. I understand that time was of the essence with the competition. If re-recording vocals is not an option, I think what would help this production, is a slight bit of pitch correction. And definitely timing corrections. This would give your duet such a boost IMHO. Also... different reverb and/or delay for the vocals.

These two things pull you out of the immersion a bit. Especially towards the end (the time shifted vocals as "call and response"). Else, mixing is always a subjective thing. You have a great guitar sound, but panning and proper volume would do wonders here. Should you go back to this production, this is where you should take another closer look (in my opinion).
.



.
TrojakEW - The Road Not Taken

A "funeral anthem", quite the concept. And as usualy, you juggle your available samples quite nicely (I assume the voice is from Era II). The overall package is great to listen to (your signature "soundtrack feeling"), but I am not a fan of certain sections sticking out. Especially on small speakers.

For example, the melody part at 0:38min... it's very loud - probably due to the build up of the layers. Later in the song, you found a better volume balance. The piano feels also a bit restrained. I understand you wanted a more compressed and "pop-ish" sound here, so you opted for more proceesing and low-pass filtering for the overall song. But I would have actually given the piano a bit more room to breathe in the mix in the later part.

Other than that... great entry, as usual!





Once more, you all did great, stepped outside of your comfort zone, created something in the first place. I can definitely understand every comment that this month was really not easy to define a "top 10" listing. I would love to add mine as bonus anyway (yes, the points count on the score sheet).


Please check out the results in the follow-up post.

Ladies and Gentlemen, here are the results of Songwriting Competition 49

The winners podium consists of:

1. @canese (86 pts)
2. @fjansenson (73 pts)
3. @celiodie (70 pts)

Apologies for the waiting time, this is not an automated process.

<4 participant rule is not in use (staff comments and votes, my vote was bonus)
We have 0 disqualifications (due to lack of feedback)
We have 1 withdrawn entry
We have 0 votes after the deadline - therefore no -5 points penalty
We have 0 users that tied

• <no tied entries>

"Sole (License) Winner" rule does not apply - 3-position Winners Podium

(edit 24-OCT-2021: technically I made a mistake regarding the "tiered winners podium", and due to the participation amount, it should have been a 1-position podium. That was an oversight, I however honored that I announced a 3-position Winners Podium)


STATISTICS SHEET:
Overview of Submissions (PDF - updated: 06-OCT-2021, full sheet)

!

Bonus Info

Short info: I am using Wavelab 10 for batch analysis, then I manually port the CSV export to a Microsoft Excel/Open Office Calc sheet with custom layout (this is not an automated process). As pointed out in this post from SWC047 / July, Wavelab has different tolerances for dBTP max analysis compared to tools like iZotope RX, Youlean Loudness Meter, NUGEN Audio VisLM, etc. To find a common ground, I've implemented "allowed tolerances" (just like with the Mix Challenge). These are based upon allowed offsets mentioned in the white papers for EBU R128 and ITU-R BS.1770-4. Since Statistic Sheets are here to stay (for both the Mix Challenge and Songwriting Competition), I will follow up this topic with an official Rule Addendum post sometime during Q4 2021 (see Rule Book section). If possible, always stay below the tolerances. As usual, I did list/analyze alternative releases (MP3s and FLAC). If you've submitted your entry in multiple file formats, the statistic sheet will focus on the uncompressed material first (WAV), then FLAC, then MP3. The higher the quality, the less possible loss on bonus points for "Loudness Specs" due to offsets introduced by a used CODEC. In this case, FLAC and MP3 are merely for information purposes.

Here are the results as chart in image form:



Thank you so much for your participation.



License selection:

We'll now perform with the usual. Selecting licenses is handled in public. Please select one license/company out of the pool (in order of the winners podium) and mention it in this thread, then (important) please get in touch with me (via PM) with your full name, email address and your license selection.

As usual - you're not forced to pick up anything. You can pass and therefore offer more to select for the next person in line (if there is a spot existing / not available for "sole winner" mechanic). Just let all participants/winners/the staff know in a timely manner. Once one company has been selected, it's out of the pool for the next person on the podium.



Feedback about the "Songwriting Competition" is welcome (please do so here).



See you in in the next challenge!


Songwriting Competition 050 (October 2021) is still in full swing.
Please help spread the word!

Mister Fox wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 06, 2021 06:52 CEST

On that behalf, I kindly ask @TrojakEW to maybe pull it back from over-analyzing mixes.

First thank you for the feedback. Really appreciate this.

Now regarding my comments and over-analyzing mixes. I never wanted to attack anyone or anything like that. I always trying to comment on every aspect of track mix including. It is hard to decide what to comment because people here are, well not very talkative no matter if they new here or they are usual participants. I was trying to make people to comment and discuss more about our tracks here, but no luck. Not sure why people are joining SWC but I know now it is not about exchanging experience. Just look at the activity after you post the final score. It is sad. So this lead me to stand back for a while and see if something here change and after that I my join again (maybe). I do want to improve my skills by without understanding peoples thought here it is impossible.


Oh and congrats to winner. My favorite track wins.