A short update:
The results will be posted later this Sunday (4th July). Apologies for the waiting time.
2024-NOV-01 Info: Thank you everyone, for making MC100 a resounding success. Please show Songwriting Competition 087 the same love.
SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC046 June 2021- Winners announced
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Mister Fox
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SoundBeing
Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC046 June 2021 - Voting until 01-JUL-2021 23:59 UTC+2/CEST
I wonder what you mean by this. The song contains 3 different sections including a key change for the bridge. By "part" do you mean instrument, or...?dadomachado wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 19:50 CESTIt think it misses a different part to hold the listeners attention longer.
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dadomachado
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2020 17:58 CEST
- Location: Brazil
Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC046 June 2021- results in preparation
Hey,
I felt like the overall groove just goes on and on. Even with the key changes I doesn't feel like a big change in the song. Maybe a breakdown betwwen the parts or a convention. The guitar plays the theme, and then the impro and then back to the theme. It's just a lot of the same tone.
Dude, that's my opinion, ok ?
Cheers,
dadomachado
I felt like the overall groove just goes on and on. Even with the key changes I doesn't feel like a big change in the song. Maybe a breakdown betwwen the parts or a convention. The guitar plays the theme, and then the impro and then back to the theme. It's just a lot of the same tone.
Dude, that's my opinion, ok ?
Cheers,
dadomachado
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Mister Fox
- Site Admin
- Posts: 3361
- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 16:15 CEST
- Location: Berlin, Germany
Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC046 June 2021- results in preparation
And your opinion is valid, @dadomachado -- just like mine.
Speaking of which - let me add another bit of feedback to this month's run, since we only had five participants and one of them had to (sadly) bow out last minute. I will not be adding a vote as there is nothing that needs to break a tie. I would push Shea's entry a bit higher on the scoreboard though.
Notice that I've listened to the production on headphones (my trusty old Beyerdynamic DT990 from early 2000s, which have way too much bass at this point), and on PC speakers with small speaker drivers. Hence me mentioning "on small speakers" as second part of the feedback. I tend to do this, because this gives me an overview how a production would sound on different devices (overall). There are ways to simulate that - and I might get to that in a future Production Techniques post.
Please also note that I speak form the viewpoint of both a normal listener and an audio engineer. However, sometimes my audio engineer ears take over a bit too much. And then I find things that others would usually ignore. I hope my feedback doesn't sound too harsh.
You all did great, you all presented very interesting productions.
But should you get back to adjusting your mixes, maybe the following feedback might help.
A Future in Noise - Yeah:
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Very synthesizer heavy. I really like the 1980s feeling. Although in this case, I would have preferred some real guitars. Or if it is a guitar sample set (like from Musiclab), maybe some more keyswitches/articulation and a different guitar amp (including a touch of delay). Else it is standing out a bit too much from the rest of the production. Overall, very enjoyable, laid-back and it definitely sounds like you had fun experimenting. And that ending... were you channeling a certain old 1980s TV show?
On small speakers:
Due to the speaker drivers being small, your production doesn't feel like it has a blanket over the mix anymore. However, now the synth guitar and the lead synth are a bit much, while the synth bass is almost getting lost (playing in lower registers), and there is no kick anymore if the instrumentation is busy. The middle section (around 1:50) is clear and you hear everything. This is where I would step in and do some adjustments.
It is still enjoyable - please keep up the good work.
Celiodie - Notturno
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Interesting piano improvisation with lush pads as support. However the first thing that stands out to me, is the (IMHO) too strong compression of the piano. I understand that there might be a certain idea behind that. But I actually feel a bit of ear fatigue on headphones. Another thing I'd change, is the reverb. Maybe "duck it away", so that it only comes up in more quiet parts. Else, how things currently are, everything feels a bit claustrophobic and centered - unless this is the feeling you tried to convey from watching the sky from your attic.
I really like it, and would love to play this on repeat while working (certain Youtube channels might be head over heels for this), but I'd really pull back on the compression for the piano.
On small speakers:
The piano compression is sadly still the first thing that pulls me out of the immersion. What is also more prominent here, that the upper-mid frequencies just built up too much for the piano, sometimes strongly scraping at your ear canals. I really think that reducing the compression and changing the reverb for a more subdued/ducked reverb on the lead piano would help counter this effect. Other than that, great production, and I hope you'll join future games as well.
dadomachado - Homie
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Very funky in terms of production, with the occasional "dragging" and "pushing". Like it would happen in a real jam session. There are some interesting audio bits. Especially with the baritone sax (wild ping-pong panning on higher frequencies and stronger signals) - unless that was unintentional, especially since this happens with the solo guitar in the last section of the song as well.
I really like the overall guitar sound - you definitely know how to handle amps. Not a fan of the drum sound however. I would have given the Addictive Drums kit a different kick blend, and less reverb. Even with changes to the LF shelf (mixer that powers my headphones), this is the part that still sticks out the most (the kick and too heavy ringing toms). But that's been a thing with Addictive Drums since it's incarnation -- great overall concept, some of the kit mixes were just really bad - not your fault. Overall, very nice. And I hope the interaction with your friends worked out nicely!
On small speakers:
This song works really well on small speakers, albeit a bit dull sounding in places (as if there is a blanket over the speakers). This is a matter of taste however (if you want super bright mixes or not). You clearly show a lot of expertise (also being being a Mix Challenge regular), I can clearly hear all instruments. Well, sans the drums (again, this is an Addictive Drums thing). Pulling back on the reverb from it, and changing both the kick and snare mic blends, might add a lot. The Panning Effect on the Sax and the lead guitar (on stronger signal) is not as prominent, but still there. The rest is just me being nit-picky.
Shea - Enlighten
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Right off the bat, among the "brightest" and loudest perceived(!, not if we go by neutral statistics) production of all submissions. At the beginning, I wasn't sure if the beat was offset or not, but once the bass the muted guitars set in, everything gels better together. Although the violin feels off-beat in places. Personally I might have used a different kick drum, or changed the balance between "attack click" sound and low-end punch ever so often throughout the production. Another trick I'd use, is to give the main snare (you're using two if not three) a pre-delay for the reverb, fitting to the bpm (is it around 63bpm? So try a pre-delay of 1/8th for the snare reverb, which is about 473,9ms, half that value if it feels "too slow") resulting in another groove element. Or split the main snare in two parts so that one has the imminent reverb, and the other an offset one, to add to the rhythm. To fill things out a bit more.
I really like the overall concept, the mini sound snippets. Certain parts in the song are a bit "too wide" though. For example, around the 3:10min part, things are suddenly drifting into straight left/right speakers, and then things get lost (like the guitar at 4:00min on the left side). The lead guitar chorus is also a bit much, maybe pull back a little ever so often and/or try a different approach (should you go back to the song).
Although maybe this is a prime candidate for a binaural mix. If you join SWC047, I am really(!) curious what you come up with!
On small speakers:
The whole production is still very bright, and my commentary on panning still applies. Sadly the bass is getting totally lost here (as it's a "low frequency" element, working as emotional support). Using tricks from tools like MaxxBass or MBassador might help get the bass noticed on small speakers or crappy ear-buds, but it would also make things a bit unpleasant on larger speakers. A difficult trade-off. What I did notice, is that the overall frequency spectrum feels more balanced in the upper mid-range. The drums also feel completely different. Should you ever get back to that production, try to listen to different environments (or simulate them) to get an overall feeling. Then, if you want to that is, maybe try to balance things out a bit more.
Sound Being - Song for Brett
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From the start, instant "fireworks", like you said. A bit chaotic however. At least if we talk "mix", as things start to clash in the chorus part, and everything sounds strongly distorted in the mid-range even. The bass gets a bit lost on headphone (and my DT990s are obnoxious with bass!), but it's definitely there. That sadly means, the bass will vanish on small speakers. The last third of the song gets really interesting instrumentation wise, and I like the vibe. But things are too much on top of each other, instruments stealing frequency ranges from one other. The guitar (while sounding nice) feels also a bit dry, so I'd definitely play with different reverb or use a delay instead.
Unless, that is the intention with this 1980s Disco-like creation. But still, I'd re-address the mix just a tad. Overall, nice production, very funky. I hope you enjoyed experimenting with Synthmaster.
On small speakers:
As expected, the bass is pretty much gone, but suddenly the frequency clashing is not as prominent anymore (lower frequencies/lower mids). However, the longer the song, the more it actually starts to result in ear fatigue (because of the constant barrage of sounds). This is where I'd definitely take another look and clean house. The chorus part still sounds distorted, probably from the guitar driving the amp a bit too hard, and then dragging everything else with it. Re-recording this section would completely destroy the feeling. So my recommendation would be... take another dive at the overall mix, clean things up a bit. A lot can still be done without shoving away the 1980s Disco feel.
Oh and - your 3 Point penalty comes from going up to -13,2 LUFS (-2pts), and your filename was flipped upside down (-1pt, plus you wrote SW046 instead of SWC046 - if I'd search for your entry on my HDD with the tag SWC046, I would not be able to find it)
I will post the final results in a bit.
Speaking of which - let me add another bit of feedback to this month's run, since we only had five participants and one of them had to (sadly) bow out last minute. I will not be adding a vote as there is nothing that needs to break a tie. I would push Shea's entry a bit higher on the scoreboard though.
Notice that I've listened to the production on headphones (my trusty old Beyerdynamic DT990 from early 2000s, which have way too much bass at this point), and on PC speakers with small speaker drivers. Hence me mentioning "on small speakers" as second part of the feedback. I tend to do this, because this gives me an overview how a production would sound on different devices (overall). There are ways to simulate that - and I might get to that in a future Production Techniques post.
Please also note that I speak form the viewpoint of both a normal listener and an audio engineer. However, sometimes my audio engineer ears take over a bit too much. And then I find things that others would usually ignore. I hope my feedback doesn't sound too harsh.
You all did great, you all presented very interesting productions.
But should you get back to adjusting your mixes, maybe the following feedback might help.
A Future in Noise - Yeah:
--------------------------------------------------
Very synthesizer heavy. I really like the 1980s feeling. Although in this case, I would have preferred some real guitars. Or if it is a guitar sample set (like from Musiclab), maybe some more keyswitches/articulation and a different guitar amp (including a touch of delay). Else it is standing out a bit too much from the rest of the production. Overall, very enjoyable, laid-back and it definitely sounds like you had fun experimenting. And that ending... were you channeling a certain old 1980s TV show?
On small speakers:
Due to the speaker drivers being small, your production doesn't feel like it has a blanket over the mix anymore. However, now the synth guitar and the lead synth are a bit much, while the synth bass is almost getting lost (playing in lower registers), and there is no kick anymore if the instrumentation is busy. The middle section (around 1:50) is clear and you hear everything. This is where I would step in and do some adjustments.
It is still enjoyable - please keep up the good work.
Celiodie - Notturno
--------------------------------------------------
Interesting piano improvisation with lush pads as support. However the first thing that stands out to me, is the (IMHO) too strong compression of the piano. I understand that there might be a certain idea behind that. But I actually feel a bit of ear fatigue on headphones. Another thing I'd change, is the reverb. Maybe "duck it away", so that it only comes up in more quiet parts. Else, how things currently are, everything feels a bit claustrophobic and centered - unless this is the feeling you tried to convey from watching the sky from your attic.
I really like it, and would love to play this on repeat while working (certain Youtube channels might be head over heels for this), but I'd really pull back on the compression for the piano.
On small speakers:
The piano compression is sadly still the first thing that pulls me out of the immersion. What is also more prominent here, that the upper-mid frequencies just built up too much for the piano, sometimes strongly scraping at your ear canals. I really think that reducing the compression and changing the reverb for a more subdued/ducked reverb on the lead piano would help counter this effect. Other than that, great production, and I hope you'll join future games as well.
dadomachado - Homie
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Very funky in terms of production, with the occasional "dragging" and "pushing". Like it would happen in a real jam session. There are some interesting audio bits. Especially with the baritone sax (wild ping-pong panning on higher frequencies and stronger signals) - unless that was unintentional, especially since this happens with the solo guitar in the last section of the song as well.
I really like the overall guitar sound - you definitely know how to handle amps. Not a fan of the drum sound however. I would have given the Addictive Drums kit a different kick blend, and less reverb. Even with changes to the LF shelf (mixer that powers my headphones), this is the part that still sticks out the most (the kick and too heavy ringing toms). But that's been a thing with Addictive Drums since it's incarnation -- great overall concept, some of the kit mixes were just really bad - not your fault. Overall, very nice. And I hope the interaction with your friends worked out nicely!
On small speakers:
This song works really well on small speakers, albeit a bit dull sounding in places (as if there is a blanket over the speakers). This is a matter of taste however (if you want super bright mixes or not). You clearly show a lot of expertise (also being being a Mix Challenge regular), I can clearly hear all instruments. Well, sans the drums (again, this is an Addictive Drums thing). Pulling back on the reverb from it, and changing both the kick and snare mic blends, might add a lot. The Panning Effect on the Sax and the lead guitar (on stronger signal) is not as prominent, but still there. The rest is just me being nit-picky.
Shea - Enlighten
--------------------------------------------------
Right off the bat, among the "brightest" and loudest perceived(!, not if we go by neutral statistics) production of all submissions. At the beginning, I wasn't sure if the beat was offset or not, but once the bass the muted guitars set in, everything gels better together. Although the violin feels off-beat in places. Personally I might have used a different kick drum, or changed the balance between "attack click" sound and low-end punch ever so often throughout the production. Another trick I'd use, is to give the main snare (you're using two if not three) a pre-delay for the reverb, fitting to the bpm (is it around 63bpm? So try a pre-delay of 1/8th for the snare reverb, which is about 473,9ms, half that value if it feels "too slow") resulting in another groove element. Or split the main snare in two parts so that one has the imminent reverb, and the other an offset one, to add to the rhythm. To fill things out a bit more.
I really like the overall concept, the mini sound snippets. Certain parts in the song are a bit "too wide" though. For example, around the 3:10min part, things are suddenly drifting into straight left/right speakers, and then things get lost (like the guitar at 4:00min on the left side). The lead guitar chorus is also a bit much, maybe pull back a little ever so often and/or try a different approach (should you go back to the song).
Although maybe this is a prime candidate for a binaural mix. If you join SWC047, I am really(!) curious what you come up with!
On small speakers:
The whole production is still very bright, and my commentary on panning still applies. Sadly the bass is getting totally lost here (as it's a "low frequency" element, working as emotional support). Using tricks from tools like MaxxBass or MBassador might help get the bass noticed on small speakers or crappy ear-buds, but it would also make things a bit unpleasant on larger speakers. A difficult trade-off. What I did notice, is that the overall frequency spectrum feels more balanced in the upper mid-range. The drums also feel completely different. Should you ever get back to that production, try to listen to different environments (or simulate them) to get an overall feeling. Then, if you want to that is, maybe try to balance things out a bit more.
Sound Being - Song for Brett
--------------------------------------------------
From the start, instant "fireworks", like you said. A bit chaotic however. At least if we talk "mix", as things start to clash in the chorus part, and everything sounds strongly distorted in the mid-range even. The bass gets a bit lost on headphone (and my DT990s are obnoxious with bass!), but it's definitely there. That sadly means, the bass will vanish on small speakers. The last third of the song gets really interesting instrumentation wise, and I like the vibe. But things are too much on top of each other, instruments stealing frequency ranges from one other. The guitar (while sounding nice) feels also a bit dry, so I'd definitely play with different reverb or use a delay instead.
Unless, that is the intention with this 1980s Disco-like creation. But still, I'd re-address the mix just a tad. Overall, nice production, very funky. I hope you enjoyed experimenting with Synthmaster.
On small speakers:
As expected, the bass is pretty much gone, but suddenly the frequency clashing is not as prominent anymore (lower frequencies/lower mids). However, the longer the song, the more it actually starts to result in ear fatigue (because of the constant barrage of sounds). This is where I'd definitely take another look and clean house. The chorus part still sounds distorted, probably from the guitar driving the amp a bit too hard, and then dragging everything else with it. Re-recording this section would completely destroy the feeling. So my recommendation would be... take another dive at the overall mix, clean things up a bit. A lot can still be done without shoving away the 1980s Disco feel.
Oh and - your 3 Point penalty comes from going up to -13,2 LUFS (-2pts), and your filename was flipped upside down (-1pt, plus you wrote SW046 instead of SWC046 - if I'd search for your entry on my HDD with the tag SWC046, I would not be able to find it)
I will post the final results in a bit.
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Mister Fox
- Site Admin
- Posts: 3361
- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 16:15 CEST
- Location: Berlin, Germany
SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC046 June 2021 - Winners announced
Ladies and Gentlemen, here are the results of Songwriting Competition 46
The winners podium consists of:
Apologies for the waiting time, this is not an automated process, and this took me 2 days longer than planned.
<4 participant rule is not in use (staff comments and votes)
We have 1 disqualifications (due to lack of feedback, see overhauled game mechanics)
We have 0 withdrawn entries
We have 0 votes after the deadline - no -5 points penalty
We have 2 users that tied
STATISTICS SHEET:
Overview of Submissions (PDF - updated: 05-JUL-2021, full sheet)
If you enjoy this piece of information, I can continue doing this for future Songwriting Competitions as well. I create this Microsoft Excel/Open Office Calc sheet regardless (to find out LUFS and dBTP offsets). It is usually just not as nicely arranged.
Here are the results as chart in image form:
Thank you so much for your participation.
License selection:
We'll now perform with the usual. Selecting licenses is handled in public. Please select one license/company out of the pool (in order of the winners podium) and mention it in this thread, then (important) please get in touch with me (via PM) with your full name, email address and your license selection.
As usual - you're not forced to pick up anything. You can pass and therefore offer more to select for the next person in line (if there is a spot existing / not available for "sole winner" mechanic). Just let all participants/winners/the staff know in a timely manner. Once one company has been selected, it's out of the pool for the next person on the podium.
Feedback about the "Songwriting Competition" is welcome (please do so here).
See you in in the next challenge!
Songwriting Competition 047 (July 2021) is still in full swing.
Please help spread the word to get the Songwriting Competition to 15-20 participants on average during 2021.
The winners podium consists of:
- @dadomachado (52 pts)
- @celiodie (49 pts)
- @SoundBeing (46 pts)
Apologies for the waiting time, this is not an automated process, and this took me 2 days longer than planned.
<4 participant rule is not in use (staff comments and votes)
We have 1 disqualifications (due to lack of feedback, see overhauled game mechanics)
We have 0 withdrawn entries
We have 0 votes after the deadline - no -5 points penalty
We have 2 users that tied
- SoundBeing has 0x10pts, 3x9pts, 1x8pts -- Shea has 0x10pts, 1x9pts, 2x8pts -- SoundBeing therefore scores higher
STATISTICS SHEET:
Overview of Submissions (PDF - updated: 05-JUL-2021, full sheet)
If you enjoy this piece of information, I can continue doing this for future Songwriting Competitions as well. I create this Microsoft Excel/Open Office Calc sheet regardless (to find out LUFS and dBTP offsets). It is usually just not as nicely arranged.
Here are the results as chart in image form:
Thank you so much for your participation.
License selection:We'll now perform with the usual. Selecting licenses is handled in public. Please select one license/company out of the pool (in order of the winners podium) and mention it in this thread, then (important) please get in touch with me (via PM) with your full name, email address and your license selection.
As usual - you're not forced to pick up anything. You can pass and therefore offer more to select for the next person in line (if there is a spot existing / not available for "sole winner" mechanic). Just let all participants/winners/the staff know in a timely manner. Once one company has been selected, it's out of the pool for the next person on the podium.
Feedback about the "Songwriting Competition" is welcome (please do so here).
See you in in the next challenge!
Songwriting Competition 047 (July 2021) is still in full swing.
Please help spread the word to get the Songwriting Competition to 15-20 participants on average during 2021.
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A Future in Noise
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 09:26 CET
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC046 June 2021- Winners announced
Congrats to the winners! And happy holiday one day to late, SoundBeing! Thanks for your analysis, Mr Fox!
I think I have mentioned at least twice that I sometimes end up in an emergency hospital. I suffer from a rather unusual disease: Addison. If I eat a little too less, walks or use my bicycle a little too much and forget to take one or two of my pills (hydrokortison in Swedish), then it may happen that I wake up with a blood sugar value (I'm not sure if this is correct English) of 1.8. It's quite an effort to make it to the front door, where they wait with the Solu-Cortef shot. Anyway: This https://www.bellener.com/Feeling_Fine.html is where I spend the afternoon yesterday. A lake and a golf course about 800 meters from where I live. I didn't feel as if I where in a hospital at all. And of course I brought my computer and started thinking about this month's competition.
Looking forward to listen to your entries in a couple of weeks, or so.
And happy holiday one day to late, SoundBeing! Thanks for your analysis, Mr Fox!I think I have mentioned at least twice that I sometimes end up in an emergency hospital. I suffer from a rather unusual disease: Addison. If I eat a little too less, walks or use my bicycle a little too much and forget to take one or two of my pills (hydrokortison in Swedish), then it may happen that I wake up with a blood sugar value (I'm not sure if this is correct English) of 1.8. It's quite an effort to make it to the front door, where they wait with the Solu-Cortef shot. Anyway: This https://www.bellener.com/Feeling_Fine.html is where I spend the afternoon yesterday. A lake and a golf course about 800 meters from where I live. I didn't feel as if I where in a hospital at all. And of course I brought my computer and started thinking about this month's competition.
Looking forward to listen to your entries in a couple of weeks, or so.
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dadomachado
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2020 17:58 CEST
- Location: Brazil
Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC046 June 2021- Winners announced
Thanks to all !!! This was really fun, and I really appreciate the feedback.
I'll take the MODO BASS.
Cheers,
dadomachado
I'll take the MODO BASS.
Cheers,
dadomachado
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A Future in Noise
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 09:26 CET
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC046 June 2021- results in preparation
I really appreciate your constructive criticism, Mister Fox, but this comment I don't understand at all. Small speakers? Speaker drivers being small? My speakers actually are rather small, but they are quite good: Yamaha HS5. And I have a huge subwoofer. The problem maybe is (although I realize I'm probably discussing something totally different than you) their placement in my apartment. The placement does not at all follow the instructions from the manufacturer. And this probably affects how my ears perceive the low frequencies. There is a photo of the arrangement if you look at my profile and the link to “visit website”. (The website is not – I repeat NOT – finished yet.)Mister Fox wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 07:57 CESTOn small speakers:
Due to the speaker drivers being small, your production doesn't feel like it has a blanket over the mix anymore.
Not that I'm aware of. But maybe I did? (Which one?)Mister Fox wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 07:57 CESTAnd that ending... were you channeling a certain old 1980s TV show?
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Mister Fox
- Site Admin
- Posts: 3361
- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 16:15 CEST
- Location: Berlin, Germany
Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC046 June 2021- Winners announced
By small speakers, I mean literal cheap active PC desktop speakers with speaker cones that are 2" in diameter. They are physically incapable of producing low frequencies.
And by TV show, I meant "The A-Team".
And by TV show, I meant "The A-Team".
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SoundBeing
Re: SONGWRITING COMPETITION - SWC046 June 2021- Winners announced
Congrats to all the winners! And thanks for your extra input Mr. Fox. I guess I'm swimming in the lofi life and that is not always understood. But I take each and every comment with a grain and the understanding that it is the POV of someone who lives and breathes the same demons that I do. 
I'd like to try Voltage Modular Ignite, plus the "Year One Collection".
I'd like to try Voltage Modular Ignite, plus the "Year One Collection".