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MIX CHALLENGE - MC099 August 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2024 08:32 CEST
by Mister Fox
I am still working myself through the Statistic Sheets. They might arrive a bit delayed as there is a lot of ground to cover this month.

Apologies for the waiting time, your patience is appreciated. :educate:



:arrow_right: EDIT 26-AUG-2024:
The Statistic Sheets will definitely be delayed (unfortunately). I have to push the release date to 27-AUG-2024.

There will also be an extensive follow-up post that explains an extra added column to the sheet, and the unusual high disqualification rate for this month.

Apologies for the waiting time.

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC099 August 2024 - Submissions until 21-AUG-2024 23:59 UTC+2/CEST

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 12:19 CEST
by jaThum
JeroenZuiderwijk wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2024 16:19 CEST
jaThum wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2024 23:35 CEST
Still very much learning obviously - tried for dimension somewhat.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/59j22297 ... 1bg2x&dl=0
Hi jaThum,
Could you please give some info about how your mix came be? Detailed about choices you made to get to the sound you wanted...etc.
Cheers, Jeroen
Sure...thanks for asking...sorry to be late

Ideally; I wanted guitars wide for keeping rhythm against bass and a somewhat subdued kick. Most other elements slightly receded with very wide and deep trumpets. No too much verb on the vocal... I did not succeed. Listening again there was too much verb, really bad EQ on the guitar and pretty uneven mix altogether. I wanted the busiest elements playing off each other spatially because the composition was a little sparse. I also HAVEN'T yet began to learn tonal control over the entire mix so I work with whatever the elements contain.

I have no idea how it sounds on good speaker because my monitoring SUCKS!! haha... Logitech x540 system and my "trusty" Sony7506 cans with an eq curve I got from somewhere. Waaaaaay far from ideal. I'm getting monitors this year sometime...

Don't really know what else to add, just to say I'm terribly flattered anyone would even ask! :hihi: It's my second submission... we need these every month!

MIX CHALLENGE - MC099 August 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2024 10:53 CEST
by Mister Fox
:arrow_right: The "Overview of Submissions" PDFs have been uploaded.
You can check them through the upper post (post #114).



The Statistic Sheet is used to give an overview of all entries, and whether or not they are within given parameters (loudness, sampling rate, bitrate, proper filename). This is adding to the overall learning process of the "Mix(ing) Challenge". Please take note that creating this sheet is not a fully automated process. I am using Wavelab 10's "Batch Analysis" tool (EBU R-128 specs / equivalent to ITU-R BS.1770-4), but the overall layout and highlighting issues/mishaps, not to mention triple checking files and time stamps, is time consuming. If you do not find yourself on this list, please let me know.

:arrow_right: Please keep in mind, your mix being "tagged disqualified", does not mean "you're out of the game" (exceptions do apply). For more information on the Statistic Sheet and the "Wild Card" Mechanic, please consult the following addendum thread:

Mix Challenge - Addendum: Statistic Sheet and Wild Card Mechanic



:arrow_right: Statistics Addendum:
 ⚠ Moderation Message from Mister Fox  
We have a disqualification rate of 37,80% for August 2024 (82 entries, 31 disqualifications, 0 "Out of Competition" submission not counting).

As usual, many of these disqualifications are due to not paying attention to detail (careless mistakes), e.g.: wrong sampling rate or bitrate, loudness specs, lack of documentation, and not properly using the provided filename template (also see the provided "TL;DR Rules.txt" file, etc).

On average (33 months of tracking), we currently have a disqualification rate of 26,26% (compared to last game's 25,90% avg), the rate is still increasing. The disqualification rate over the course of the last 12 games (October 2022 to August 2024) is about 28,05% (previously 26,99%), and is a drastic increase. This jump is mostly due to various entries being "tagged disqualified" because of non-allowed arrangement changes.

I strongly recommend all participants to pay more attention to details in future games.



:arrow_right: A commentary on this month's entries:

I would like to once more welcome all new participants who have found their way into our little community. I hope this Mix(ing) Challenge was once more interesting and you enjoy your stay. Let's hope for many more games to come during "Year 11"


I stated in previous Mix(ing) Challenges, that future detailed "follow-up posts" will be a rare occurrence. These posts take up a lot of time, and I can only get so much done in the day. However, I decided to write a more in-depth commentary for MC099, because of the sudden jump of entries being "tagged disqualified".

The Statistic Sheets are also delayed due to the fact, that I did spot listening checks with every entry, to confirm what was written with each entries documentation. Usually, I do not do this. However, this month was a bit of a Wild West in terms of interpreting the Rule Book. I understand that there might have been a misunderstanding due to one comment by the Song Provider on the topic of "creative mixing" with the vocals. Although I will also take the blame for not getting back in touch with the client on this specific paragraph, to refine things more so that there are no misunderstandings (I will make sure of that for future games).

Then again, your task was, and will always be "mixing".

The topic was not "add harmony lines" (no matter the means - like copy/paste/pitch adjust, Melodyne or similar, AUX effect with "pitched up/pitched down" vocals, in one case even similar chord progressions based upon the song key). Unless the client and I (as host) allow you to do that and it is an essential part of a current running game. Which is actually far form being an easy task - even if MIDI chords or similar would be provided. This is also akin to the topic of "Drum Shell Sample Replacement Tools" -- it boils down to accessibility (these tools are not cheap, only a handful of users can afford them), and the expertise of a participant. Some might have no issue with that at all and basically child's play. For others, it might be impossible to pull off since they neither have the tools they need, nor do they know what they're doing. Hence why this was not a "special task" in any game so far. I want the Mix(ing) Challenge to be accessible to everyone!


To bring this full circle:
By copying/moving sections of the arrangement, muting parts, or adding content that wasn't originally at this particular place in the arrangement, you actively take on the role of a "songwriter". And this is simply not your task for the Mix(ing) Challenge. :educate:


The MC099 Statistic Sheets have an additional column this time around, labeling entries that had additional Harmony Lines ("HARMONY" or "HARM" in short form), muted sections (MUTES), or shifted sections (SHIFT). After checking all entries multiple times, sadly 12 participants got this label - which resulted in a jump from an otherwise 23,17% disqualification rate (19 disqualified entries) to 37,80% (31 disqualified entries). This definitely counts to "lesson learned" - for me as host as well. I will definitely pay more attention with setups for future Mix(ing) Challenges.

There are still talks behind the scenes how we will handle this situation with Mix Round 2, so that the outcome will be a fair to all participants of MC099. The Song Provider and I will definitely keep you updated.


Other than that - I had to declare two entries as "tagged OUT" (no chance to advance), due to the fact, that I caught these uses re-uploading their entries during the submission period - and also shortly after (this entry would have been "tagged OUT" one way or the other, because of a missing attached username). Two more users are "tagged OUT" due to the fact, that the entries weren't accessible by the end of the deadline. One of them still isn't.

Everything else are the usual-usual "small (careless) mistakes" with not using the filename template (as provided with the TL;DR Rules.txt, and post #003), the wrong Sampling Rate, or the signal exceeding the loudness specs. Interestingly enough, there is no entry with a mismatched bitrate this month (as in: 16 bit export).

Some more oddities that I ran into:
One WAV file resulted in a loading error - something I still don't know why this is happening. Another entry actually had a render mishap, where the music is "pitched down" compared to the vocals. And the mixing techniques for yet another entry might have resulted in weird flanging / comb filter effects (please check your latency compensation for your extensive parallel processing!).



:arrow_right: To close this out.

I am definitely happy with the participation amount. However, I am not so happy with the disqualification rate. As mentioned above, this will also be a learning process for me.

Regardless of that - once more a thank you to everyone that invested time with this month's game. And an additional thank you to everyone that keeps spreading the word about the Mix Challenge. I hope you could learn something, and had fun in the process.

See you in the next challenge. :headphones:
.




:information_source: I now (re-)open the field for everyone to give each other feedback (highly encouraged). This will be independent to the client feedback however. Though please note - criticism on the rule set and angry posts will be deleted without further notice.


Please watch this spot for the client feedback and Mix Round 2 participant announcement.

This will ideally happen sometime within the next 14 days (starting tomorrow).

We (as in: the Song Provider and I) will keep you updated, and of course send out appropriate reminder newsletters!




EDIT: 27-AUG-2024 10:50 UTC+2/CEST - initial post
EDIT: 30-AUG-2024 16:05 UTC+2/CEST - Update due to change in Disqualification Rate

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC099 August 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2024 12:05 CEST
by FallenAngel
Is the Wild Card automatically used if I get into the next round or do I have to say something before?

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC099 August 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2024 12:53 CEST
by Strange
Hi Mr. Fox,

thank your for your hard and persistant work.
But, sorry, I didn't use any additional harmonies. Maybe you hear "shimmerverb" and delay in the chorus. I tried hard to get the rules, cause, like everyone else, I got many additional ideas, which were not included in this task, and so I didn't do it!

Cheers
Peter

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC099 August 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2024 14:08 CEST
by Sonnea
Hi Mr Fox.

I appreciate the post and the hard work you're putting in to improve us all.

Could I get some feedback on the reason my entry was disqualified with "SHIFT" please?

I understand the rules on this, which is why after originally posting my mix with one element 'Shifted', I then re-read the rules to ensure I would not be disqualified and subsequently went back and corrected this. I then edited my post with the corrected mix which was done well before the submission deadline.

Unless the first incorrect mix was downloaded straightaway and used for submission, I think my corrected mix would not flag this "SHIFT".

Thank you for your feebback.

Sonnea

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC099 August 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2024 17:14 CEST
by JeroenZuiderwijk
FallenAngel wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2024 12:05 CEST
Is the Wild Card automatically used if I get into the next round or do I have to say something before?
Check the wildcard mechanic post #3 on this page:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=452

It is your own choice if you want to proceed to round 2 (when the songprovider gives you the chance) and use a wildcard.

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC099 August 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2024 04:22 CEST
by floodo
I don't understand in the statistics I have a HARMONY with a nice question mark, the truth is I didn't do anything else to the tracks beyond saturating them a little bit and just equalizing them, maybe the vocals, I don't remember now, but sometimes I like to give it a little bit of stereo amplitude as well as the high end of the bass, I used several types of reverbs and several delays with different settings, I don't know if any of that contributed to the confusion or maybe the parallel processes of the drums or the vocals, especially I think I remember doing parallel band compression on the vocals in 3 different channels. It's not a complaint, I was just curious.

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC099 August 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2024 06:52 CEST
by Mork
Hey,

just saw that I got disqualified because of an incorrect filename.
I don't know what happened, but I swear to god I am looking at my file which is named using the file template! As you know, I am not new here and always make sure the name is correct. Maybe the name got trimmed during download or something, but it's definitely named correctly in the cloud! Would attach a screenshot, but still don't know how.
Please reconsider the disqualification.

Edit: just clicked my link and the name shows correctly on my end :shrug:

Re: MIX CHALLENGE - MC099 August 2024 - Mix Round 1 in evaluation

Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2024 08:25 CEST
by cpsmusic
Mork wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2024 06:52 CEST
Hey,

just saw that I got disqualified because of an incorrect filename.
I don't know what happened, but I swear to god I am looking at my file which is named using the file template! As you know, I am not new here and always make sure the name is correct. Maybe the name got trimmed during download or something, but it's definitely named correctly in the cloud! Would attach a screenshot, but still don't know how.
Please reconsider the disqualification.

Edit: just clicked my link and the name shows correctly on my end :shrug:
I think there should be a double underscore between the song name and the username. From what I can see, you've only got one.